Sheva is better than van Basten (?)

romha2003, you definately made an interesting point with all the statistic. So what's your take? Sheva is better than Marco?

The year milan won the CL 2003, Inzaghi spearheaded the team will his crucial goals that lead the team to Final against Juve. Sheva was injured most of the time that season. So can I say that Milan will win even without Sheva. What's Inzaghi statistic then? I'm sure it is very close to Sheva and Pippo also got more CL goal than Marco?

Those that mean Pippo will be better than Marco if his goal ratio is better? I think if you really do a research you can definately find more than one player whose goals average per game is better than Marco and Sheva. Luca Toni out score everyone in Seria A and he's playing for Fiorentina. So Luca Toni is a better player than Sheva this season?

I had an arguement with one of Man Utd fan who say Ruud Van Nistelrooy is better than Marco once. He said the same thing, RVN had score unbelievable number of goals since joining Man Utd and is MU top scorer in Europe. He keep telling me Ruud statistic is better than Marco. I think by now he had score more goals than Marco in the Dutch national team. I think one of the reason beside RVN is good goal scorer the format of the CL also change. They have to play more games. More games is mean more goals. After all the arguement he still think RVN is better. I think otherwise of course.

And yes Marco played in a great team which is one of the greatest of all time. It always a team game, this team can win anything without Marco, but they are definately a lot more better with him. IMO the figures is important, but more important is the legecy that the player left behind.

I'm tired to hear that in 03 Inzaghi was more important than Sheva, it's nonsense. Inzaghi was great that year, but most of his goals came in group stage against weak teams, and Sheva scored most of the important goals:
*Sheva scored the winning goal against Real that year, in what was a very important match. I remember Seedorf said later that that was a crucial win, because the team realized that it can compete on the highest level. Let me remind u that then we was considered as an average team.
*in the semifinal Sheva scored the only goal that took us to final.
*in the final Sheva scored a clean goal that was somehow disallowed, and after he scored the winning penalty.

Now if this not a major contribution, than I don't know what is.

And as about relying on the statistics, then I admit that it doesn't tell the full story. But I remember van Basten himself said a month ago, that if u want to know how good a striker is than look at his amount of goals.
I think except the goals Sheva has a major influence on the way our team play, and that can't be meassurable by statistics. U can feel his presence on the field, even if he doesn't touch the ball. I remember last season when he entered at the half time against Lazio and with his first touch scored from like 25-30 meters and added many excitment and imagination in the attack. Same as for this year when he entered against PSV in CL for the last 15 minutes, it was like two Milan playing that match: 75 min boring helpless Milan and 15 min impressive and attacking Milan. Or 2 years ago against Chievo, we was 2-0 down and then he came in and somehow we managed to equlize 2-2.
So what are u talking about? Sheva was our leader, our engine, our superstar. I think he was better than MvB, and only because of the nostalgy people may not admit that. Sheva is a truly legend, a big figure in Milan's history. He scored some amazing goals for Milan, maybe not bicycles like MvB or whatever. Like Romha said before the injury Sheva played differently and had more magic in him, scored great goals from all kinds. Just go to his site and download his goals, u will see there what I'm talking about (especialy 00-03 years). (I think italian football destroying players like him, and like Ronaldo and now even Adriano...) And even after the injury he was spectacular:his goal against Lazio (03/04), or against Depor (03/04) the way he passed 3 defenders... that was defenetly Maradonna or Pele class. And many more, so don't try to make him look little just because his left. And goal ratio per match is very important and tells a lot... it's more than dry statistics.

P.S. RvN is a great player, maybe waisted because he didn't play for the right team in the right time. Just let me remind u that 2-3 years ago he was considered as the best striker in the world. He scored 30 goals in 03-04-05 CLs (10,12,8) and I saw him in Euro 04 all alone in the box for holland scoring goals out of nothing with 2 defenders on his back... simply amazing. I think that even today RvN is in the list of the best 5 strikers in europe, and if he will join Milan u'll see what I'm talking about, but I'm afraid he still can't replace Sheva... no one can.

You should guys also consider the thing that goalscoring is not the only task of striker. If it was, then why are we not gettin Ruud Van Nistelrooy when he scores averagely more than 20 league goals per season...??

Actually one of the most Marcos merits was that he was genius in making place for his team mates both in and at the edge of the area...both for other attacker and for midfielders..
I guess the thing that makes MVB better than Sheva is that he was never selfish player and he did tons of final passes as well.
I guess the worst thing on Sheva was that many times he was dribbling and shooting by himself (mainly in the matches we were losing) and didnt pass too much even in the situation he couldn't really finish well.

You should take the fact that in Marcos times there was a lot of more selfish players than him in team like Ruud Gullit, Marco Simone, Paolo Virdis, Daniele Massaro or Graziano Manari...which he was supporting with passes and made a lot of space for...

Sheva was always our no. one goal scorer cause he wasnt ever teamed up with someone able to do better in goalscoring than him until Inzaghi times...who has problems with his health then. I mean there were no attackers that could share the goalsheet with Sheva unil this season. Old Bierhoff and Big Geroge, Moreno, José Mari, Comandini, Tomasson, Crespo, Vieri, Rivaldo? Definately not...

I really don't give a damn who is legend and whos not and i really dont care if Sheva betreyed us or he was really forced out because of family problems...but i must say that from the overall point of view he never reached Marcos stature and he never will... Marcos asset to the the whole team was still higher than Shevas...

Well said Mr.Bungle, Marco overall contribution to the team is great. That because he is a footballing genius beside being a complete forward. The ultimate attacker and therefore is better than Sheva. Marco all round play is almost like a playmaker at time. And not that I'm playing down Sheva contribution in the past and say he isn't a leader. Because is part of the squad that regain Milan status as one of the giant in European games.

The team have a lot of player capable of leading such as Maldini, Nesta, Gattuso, Pirlo. And like wise in Milan team of MVB time player like Baresi, Albertini, Rijkaard and Gullit. So there's more in the team than just Marco and Sheva. Personally I like Sheva a lot even he had moved to Chelsea because he is a top class striker.

As the Fan highlighted injury destory player like Sheva and R9. But they did not suffer the pain of ending their career because of it. So they all suffer the the same. So RVN and Sheva is good but not as good as Marco van Basten. Not saying this based attachment to the past but it's because I seen them all play before. I still haven't seen any striker that is as good as him.

Football was never more defensive than before they changed the rules with backpass and 3 points for a win. Clearly that didn't help Van Basten. also not that he was injuried his first season with us and came back late in the season scoring 3 goals in the 8 games he played. Should also be noted that his 13 goals in his last season was in 14 or 15 games only, he was in the form of his life when it all ended.

I totaly agree with kris and MVB! I really like Sheva and i really can remamber when the negotiations with Dynamo were going and I prayed for him to come and believed he could be our new Marco. He fulfilled almost all the points of this task but there is still something missing that in the end Marcos contribution was still higher... not mentioning the fact that Marco showed a great loyality to the club when he always mentions Milan as his heart and always appears on scudetto celebration to congratulate the team... i'm also confident that if Marco wasnt force to end his career...only team he would switch for would have been Ajax in his old days... I also believed Sheva would only spend his last seasons at Dynamo but he showed opposite and actually i really don't believe this family cover stories...that means he's not Milan at heart as Mr. Van Basten was.
If Ancelotti leaves Milan I want Marco Van Basten to take over the team! He's not experienced as much but coach with a heart is more than we could ask for!
The way Marco left us was one of the most emotional football moments ever...when he appeared on San Siro...almost full only because this farewell it brought tears to eyes and pumped up red/black hearts of most of us!
Sheva just dissapered like a ghost doing an stupid press release.
I guess the way those players left us totaly signified the little difference that makes MVB still higher than Sheva!

...and just one point....do you think guys that there will be a flag stating "Sheva Unico" next 13 years on San Siro... i really doubt that...

Why the hell are we comparing a guy in Chelsea with our legend?

Is like:

Who is better? Trezeguet or Van Basten?

Guys, I took some archives and watched some games and goals of MVB. I had an impression that he wasn't much more playmaker type than Sheva. On the contrary the biggest part of the goals scored were headed. This mean the box type of player. But anyhow in my oppinion the main job of a forwarder is to score. to be efficient.

By the way have somebody watched yesterday game Brasil - New Zealand ? I compared Kaka and Ronaldinho. So, may be Ronaldinho is more spectacular but in terms of efficiency, Kaka yesterday was way, way of Ronaldinho level.

so it's all about the publicity....you have to see with your own eyes to compare.

Now I'm reading the papers on Brasil - New Zealand. And guess what....everybody is praising Ronaldinho )))))))

All centre forward need to be good in the box. Romha, you are right. Marco was indeed a great player in the box. And you are right about his headers too. One the best in the game. Marco can score from all possible angle be it with his head be it glancing header, bullet header or letting bounce on the ground or diving, and he score with both feet, volley, one on one, placing shot, power whatever. It's because of his peerless technique and great ball control. However, Marco all round play is outstanding. Unlike the thought of many who had not actually seen him, Van Basten is actually very quick, great dribbler, brilliant passer, play a lot of final ball and boy he can strike a ball from distance. Maybe you should watch more of the games with Van Basten playing and you will know what I mean. I can say this more often, that's why he is the most complete centre forward of his era.

And unlike Ronaldinho since you mentionned, he is very direct and keep the game simple. He doesn't have the flair of his teammate Gullit. Similar to kaka approach to the game. Despite not being very fancy, he managed to take our breath away on many many many occasion with a master stroke of class. Great technique and great footballing brain make anything possible and therefore was rightly recognised during his playing days and he make it look so easy. So Marco van Basten is definately more than just a player with good header. See for yourself. You don't get to be 3 times golden ball winner and world footballer of the year for just being good with your head, my friend. To you Marco maybe over rated to me his name belong with among the greatest footballer to play the game especially with Milan.

Originally Posted by MVB

All centre forward need to be good in the box. Romha, you are right. Marco was indeed a great player in the box. And you are right about his headers too. One the best in the game. Marco can score from all possible angle be it with his head be it glancing header, bullet header or letting bounce on the ground or diving, and he score with both feet, volley, one on one, placing shot, power whatever. It's because of his peerless technique and great ball control. However, Marco all round play is outstanding. Unlike the thought of many who had not actually seen him, Van Basten is actually very quick, great dribbler, brilliant passer, play a lot of final ball and boy he can strike a ball from distance. Maybe you should watch more of the games with Van Basten playing and you will know what I mean. I can say this more often, that's why he is the most complete centre forward of his era.

And unlike Ronaldinho since you mentionned, he is very direct and keep the game simple. He doesn't have the flair of his teammate Gullit. Similar to kaka approach to the game. Despite not being very fancy, he managed to take our breath away on many many many occasion with a master stroke of class. Great technique and great footballing brain make anything possible and therefore was rightly recognised during his playing days and he make it look so easy. So Marco van Basten is definately more than just a player with good header. See for yourself. You don't get to be 3 times golden ball winner and world footballer of the year for just being good with your head, my friend. To you Marco maybe over rated to me his name belong with among the greatest footballer to play the game especially with Milan.

My words, dude

This is really interesting. In my modest opinion, van Basten is a much better player than Sheva. I can not compare him to any other forward/striker but Ronaldo in his early days (94-98).
Just some points to validate my opinion:
1. In the early 90's/late 80's, Serie A was by far the best tournament in the world. If we remember, in 1990 the Italian teams simple dominated UEFA championships (Milan won the old Champions cup, Juventus won Cup of Winners Cup and Sampdoria UEFA Cup - or vice-versa).
One season earlier, Milan won CC and Napoli UEFA Cup.
At that time was a bit more difficult to score so many goals because the level was higher and even sides like Napoli and Sampdoria had great teams.

2. Marco was what basketball people call "franchise player". It means you can build around him. Just an exemple: we won 1992/1993 scudetto in a game against Napoli, at San Paolo, a 1 x 1 draw.
We scored after a superb Van Basten assist to Rijkaard. When he did that, the first thing who crossed my mind was something like "How did he do that? Does he has a radar in his mind to know that Franklin was comming?".
I never had this kind of thought about Sheva, who I consider more a striker, a superb one by the way, than a forward.

so, you consider Van Basten a much better player because you once thought: "How did he do that?" - very interesting argument

as for the more difficult scoring situation in the Van Basten era, also a subjective thought, as earlier I gave the scoring rate of Milan in 1991-1992 and it was comparaive to Milan 2005 - 2006.

What about this last season, I don't remember excactly what match, when Sheva found Gila with his back-heel.
I mean he even didn't see Gila, and made a great pass without even looking and sent him on one on one situation that eventualy finished in the back of the net... it was in the first half of the season, and I remember that Gila was in offside but the goal still stood. That was genious, I don't remember even Ronaldinho doing something like that...