UCL Final - Milan vs. Liverpool... Athens, May 23rd

Originally Posted by Vadim

Honestly, I thought more of you than jumping on the bandwagon of the team we're playing in the final. Its just so... Interista

Well no hard feelings Vadim, we're all friends here and i'd like you all to be happy , but there's something that's stopping me to cheer for Milan.
It's very normal reaction i think. I wouldn't have expected any of you to want Juve to win if we were the ones who played Pool.

And my last post and this avatar are just a joke. It's not like i'm a Liverpool fan now and i certanly won't lose any sleep if Liverpool lose or Milan win.
For the sake of our rivalry , i must be on Pool's side on May 23rd !

don't worry... was never offended... just tryin' to clarify things...

wrong Juventino Tony... i would have wanted Juve to win...

anyway... a reason why you should want Milan to win... less reasons for us to lure Buffon if Dida was again a hero...

imagine if Milan lost & the media vilified Dida again... Berlusconi will definitely push for Buffon...

Originally Posted by zZ[-_-]Zz

wrong Juventino Tony... i would have wanted Juve to win...

anyway... a reason why you should want Milan to win... less reasons for us to lure Buffon if Dida was again a hero...

imagine if Milan lost & the media vilified Dida again... Berlusconi will definitely push for Buffon...

Yes sure, but as European Champions, many top class players would love to join your team and if you lose some of your players may even like to leave the team. And even Buffon.... he'd like to join the European champions i think. And if he says he wants Milan, then i don't think Berlu will hesitate and he'll go after him no matter what Dida does in the final .
That trophy Maldini will lift pumps up huge amount of money...Uefa money, sponsors money...... Juve will be inferior to Milan on the transfer market for at least 5 more years if you win it.

So, as much i'd like you to spoil Inter's party, i still look after what's best for my team...and i think it's for the best of Juve if Milan won't win it !

Tony, its not that I want you to support Milan, but for a classy guy like you to go as far as changing your avatar and saying things like "Go Crouchy, go Stevie" is just a bit too far IMHO, especially considering the history between the two clubs. I know you said it was a joke, but it just doesn't strike me as something you would do. It would be a typical move by an Interista, however.

Originally Posted by zZ[-_-]Zz

wrong Juventino Tony... i would have wanted Juve to win...

anyway... a reason why you should want Milan to win... less reasons for us to lure Buffon if Dida was again a hero...

imagine if Milan lost & the media vilified Dida again... Berlusconi will definitely push for Buffon...

I'm sorry but there should be almost no circumstances where we support another team .....and a finals is certainly not one of them

lolz... ok... let me give you more reasons why Milan winnin' will be good for Juve...

the Serie A will get more respect from viewers (Milan already has for your information) & the shift of TV sponsorship powers could swing in the favour of Serie A (or at least better than currently)...

TV sponorship equals big cash & Serie A will get a bigger share of that stash... Juve & the other teams in Serie A will get to profit from that gold pot...

if you did not know already... relegation candidate West Ham can afford to pay their players up to 3 times the amount that European hopefuls Lazio & Fiorentina can...

add the fact that Italy recently won the WC... viewers will realize that Italian football is the real deal... that tactical football coupled with technical abilities is more attractive to appreciate than a bunch of runnin' athletes chasin' long balls strainin' their necks to juggle a football in the air...

with the demand for Italian football on the increase... money will flow into the clubs... so even smaller clubs like Juve can attract big players... and they can challenge to win the UEFA Cup rather than fall out before the knock-out stages...

lolz... Zeekay's impersonator...

i'm a Milan & Italian football fan... while Juve winnin' might annoy the Milanista in me... the Azzurri in me will be jubilant...

p.s. i don't consider Argentina part of Italy...

Zz , you simply can't know about what's best for Juve more thann me. It has nothing to do with not using logic or having knowledge but as a Milan fan you'll always have in mind what's best for Milan when you'll talk about what's best for Juve.

And Milan winning the CL can not be the best for Juve.
EPL isn't so far ahead of Serie A because of the success of English teams. Afterall, what did they win in this millenium, apart from 2005 CL ?
Your view on things is very optimistic and rather naive than it is possibile. Milan and Juve played CL final in 2003, Spanish teams were dominating Europe in last years, Italy won the WC and still EPL was superior in the media , wanted among sponsors and players.

If Milan wins the CL it will only make the gap between Milan and Juve bigger. Even if Italy gets something out of it, 90% of the share will go to Milan and that's the last thing Juve wants, their rivals Inter and Milan to become even stronger , now when Juve is having the toughest moments in their history.
As cruel as it sounds, Juve now needs it's rivals to suffer and get weaker.

You're witnessing the exodus of players from serie A. Sheva left, then Italy won the WC and still Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Emerson and Thuram left. Now Toni is close to leaving and possibly Buffon.
Italians need to work out of the field much more and the work on the field will only help bringing back the 90's, it won't be the decissive factor.

As for "smaller teams like Juve" , i hope it's just a provokation , otherwise i'm losing the respect i had for you and your knowledge. Juve will never be small. Even in serie B Juve is the team with strongest fan base in the country you support and is the most succesful team domestically in the same country.
Juve will never fight against elimination from UEFA group stage, no matter what. Teams like Milan, Juve or Inter will be big and competitive in CL even if serie A isn't as rich as EPL. The minows will suffer, but these teams will always be strong.

So, believe me when i'm telling you how i know better about what's best for Juve, and i'm telling you again how atm it's for the best Juve to equal the money, power and quality difference between them and Milan+Inter. And if Milan wins the CL that won't happen in the next +5 years !


@ Vadim ..... it was a joke, i repeat. I'm sure Zlatanov, dru and some others didn't take Rafa avatar seriously or were offended from it. But for peace in the house i'll change it.
Sorry if someone was offended !

Not offended, but disappointed in you Thanks for changing it back, though

But you know that deep, down inside, a part of you still wants Milan to win

Anyways, the mood here seems to indicate that we've been relegated to Serie C. Cheer up people, we're going to Athens!!

Originally Posted by Tony29.

Zz , you simply can't know about what's best for Juve more thann me. It has nothing to do with not using logic or having knowledge but as a Milan fan you'll always have in mind what's best for Milan when you'll talk about what's best for Juve.

And Milan winning the CL can not be the best for Juve.
EPL isn't so far ahead of Serie A because of the success of English teams. Afterall, what did they win in this millenium, apart from 2005 CL ?
Your view on things is very optimistic and rather naive than it is possibile. Milan and Juve played CL final in 2003, Spanish teams were dominating Europe in last years, Italy won the WC and still EPL was superior in the media , wanted among sponsors and players.

If Milan wins the CL it will only make the gap between Milan and Juve bigger. Even if Italy gets something out of it, 90% of the share will go to Milan and that's the last thing Juve wants, their rivals Inter and Milan to become even stronger , now when Juve is having the toughest moments in their history.
As cruel as it sounds, Juve now needs it's rivals to suffer and get weaker.

You're witnessing the exodus of players from serie A. Sheva left, then Italy won the WC and still Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Emerson and Thuram left. Now Toni is close to leaving and possibly Buffon.
Italians need to work out of the field much more and the work on the field will only help bringing back the 90's, it won't be the decissive factor.

As for "smaller teams like Juve" , i hope it's just a provokation , otherwise i'm losing the respect i had for you and your knowledge. Juve will never be small. Even in serie B Juve is the team with strongest fan base in the country you support and is the most succesful team domestically in the same country.
Juve will never fight against elimination from UEFA group stage, no matter what. Teams like Milan, Juve or Inter will be big and competitive in CL even if serie A isn't as rich as EPL. The minows will suffer, but these teams will always be strong.

So, believe me when i'm telling you how i know better about what's best for Juve, and i'm telling you again how atm it's for the best Juve to equal the money, power and quality difference between them and Milan+Inter. And if Milan wins the CL that won't happen in the next +5 years !


@ Vadim ..... it was a joke, i repeat. I'm sure Zlatanov, dru and some others didn't take Rafa avatar seriously or were offended from it. But for peace in the house i'll change it.
Sorry if someone was offended !

Zambrotta, Canna all left because of Calciopoli. That doesn't happen every year (just every 24 ).

Buffon hasn't left yet, and Toni is maybe leaving for Bayern (hardly a competitive league, team etc. Plus I don't think he will leave Italy).

Put another way, would you consider the fact that Luis Garcia, Alonso, and Fabregas play outside of Spain a damning indictment of Spanish football's failings?

There is no exodus really. Sheva left, and that is the only one you can consider as truly leaving without any real extenuating circumstances.

The rest left because it was a very strange year in Serie A.

I also agree with Zzzz...whenever an Italian team plays in Europe I want them to do well (even Inter).

And also I don't buy your rationale about the other stuff. Milan winning the CL will really send a loud warning to the rest of Europe that despite all the hot air surrounding the Prem, Italian football is alive and well.

And like Zzzz says that can also have a ton of other financial implications. Also imagine, if Milan were to sign Ronaldinho (I don't particularly want him more than other players we need but still). That means Serie A would be home to Kaka, Ronaldinho, Buffon, etc. All very very marketable footballers.

At this moment towards the Grand Final of CL in Athens, there are 2 matters that interesting to me .

1. What had been said by Mancini, the Merda's coach..somewhat like a "clown" who makes the viewers (in this case the readers) laugh to die.

Here's what he said (taken from channel4.com "
quote :
Personally I believe that we were better this season,” said Mancini in his Press conference. “Milan have done very well to progress in Europe, but when we have faced off in Serie A, Inter won both matches.

My comments : He's so naif to say that the Serie A is the correct barometer to rank who is better between Milan and Inter. He might be forgotten that in the last 5 years how many Milan crushed them, not to say the incredible 6-0 demolition that made Moratti nearly take a gun on his head!

quote:
“Whether we also win the Coppa Italia or not, this has been an extraordinary season for Inter in every respect. It was disappointing to go out of the Champions League, but for us it was more important to take the Scudetto.”

My comment : Mancini is absolutely right. As Inter never be in CL Final for years, also winning the Seri A title for many years (except the given title handed by Juve last season...he3x) then his first priority is to Win the scudetto on the pitch before dreaming be in the CL Final...very logical though !!

My conclusion on Mancini's statements : He is so jealous of Milan alike Viera and their Big Boss..the Dirty Smiled Moratti !!!!


2. After watching last night match between Liverpool and Fulham :

It was so clear and obvious that Pool were under "heavy pressure" by Fulham. It was the opposite situation when Pool gave that kind of pressure to Chelski at the CL Semis. And....everybody could watch how Pool loose their play and final score is Pool 0 - Fulham 1. It is a surprising result but very fair one considering how Pool played so badly against a "mediocre" team Fulham......

Important "personal conclusion" of mine:
If Milan does give Pool the same pressure like they did to MU at San Siro...then we can be rest assured that the Reds would loose their heads on how to overcome the attack wave which shall be performed by Milan in Athens....Bottom line : Milan should take the initiative to give the pressure to Pool...Gattuso should look after Gerrard like he did to Ronaldo...start to imagine how would they "fight" in midfield.....

So...be relaxed and sit back to follow the developments towards the CL Grand Final in Athens....

Juventino Tony...

you forget i'm a Baggio fan... and where did Baggio have the biggest impact in his career? not Milan i'm sure... so Juve will always occupy a small part of my heart... despite them bootin' him out the way they did...

while it is true that Milan is my biggest concern... Juve & Italian football is not far behind...

you say Milan winnin' the CL is not the best for Juve & that is true... plus i never said so like you claimed... all i said was that Juve can profit from it like the rest of Serie A...

EPL's success is subjective... but i'm focusin' on the markettin' & financial side of things which so happens... they are ahead of Serie A (at least in Asia)...

don't forget that in 2003... youtube & dailymotion didn't boom like now... with the power of media the internet provides... things change... and change they will...

and after Barca won the CL... Barca has gotten heaps of invitations to play in Asia... and with that... La Liga benefitted alot as well...

sure... the gap between Milan & Juve will grow bigger... but that is the short term... with a strong Milan... Juve will need to becomer stronger to compete... and thus will result in themselves forcin' a similar growth to stay the same level...

with coverage of the Serie A to expand (should Milan win the CL)... Juve will get a big share as they are amongst the strongest (that was provocation earlier... surprised you couldn't tell)... the world that doesn't know Juve yet will finally recognize them... and with the history that Juve has... lurin' new fans & better sponsorship is only a matter of time...

Shevchenko... Cannavaro... Zambrotta... Emerson all left... but they all still have the desire to return... and many players in La Liga & EPL do have intentions to play in Serie A...

all these might be naive to you... but it is happenin' right here in Asia (where the majority of the big money is)... the general perspective of Italian football has improved with Italy's triumph... add an Italian team winnin' the CL to that & the interest will continue to grow even bigger...

Juve will not be able to equal Milan in the next 2 years minimum even if we do not win the CL... add maybe 1 year to that is nothin' (i view your 5 years stand too negative) at all... in the long term... Juve will be able to catch up & the playin' field in the Serie A will be more even & that includes the other smaller clubs...

after 1998 with Italy's decent performance in the WC... interest in the Serie A picked up... and with Italy makin' the final of Euro 2000... the interest grew...

however with the garbage shown in 2002... the interest has since died down...

on club level... interest in Italian football did increase after the 2003 CL... only to die down & now with Italy winnin' the WC & Milan in the final of the CL... things are on the up...

while everythin' might be too optimistic in your opinion... this is the reality here where i am...

no longer are names like Zambrotta... Cannavaro... Pirlo... Gattuso etc just a blur in people's mind... while they are not makin' the impact that Beckham & Ronaldinho did... they no longer remain anonymous to the general...

now people do know that Zidane played his best years in Juve & not just in Real Madrid... these same people now regard Kaka as the best in the world & no longer C.Ronaldo...

the shift has started... now it needs the extra push... and that comes with Milan winnin' the CL...

p.s. this is not just about Juve... but about Italian football... Calcio... Serie A...

Originally Posted by Hasan Rossonero

Zambrotta, Canna all left because of Calciopoli. That doesn't happen every year (just every 24 ).

Buffon hasn't left yet, and Toni is maybe leaving for Bayern (hardly a competitive league, team etc. Plus I don't think he will leave Italy).

Put another way, would you consider the fact that Luis Garcia, Alonso, and Fabregas play outside of Spain a damning indictment of Spanish football's failings?

There is no exodus really. Sheva left, and that is the only one you can consider as truly leaving without any real extenuating circumstances.

The rest left because it was a very strange year in Serie A.

I also agree with Zzzz...whenever an Italian team plays in Europe I want them to do well (even Inter).

And also I don't buy your rationale about the other stuff. Milan winning the CL will really send a loud warning to the rest of Europe that despite all the hot air surrounding the Prem, Italian football is alive and well.

And like Zzzz says that can also have a ton of other financial implications. Also imagine, if Milan were to sign Ronaldinho (I don't particularly want him more than other players we need but still). That means Serie A would be home to Kaka, Ronaldinho, Buffon, etc. All very very marketable footballers.

I have to agree with what Hasan said above, Tony ... maybe if you hear it from me, it will tweak your opinion a little and take it less harsh but I think you are losing sight of what's best for Italian football and thus Juve, as well.

In general, in any other year, what's worst for Milan would have been best for Juve but not this year, not in the year of calciopoli and Italian football reaching a new low.

Winning the WC was just one of the steps but not the only one that Italian football had to take to "repair" it's damaged image in the eyes of the rest of Europe and the world ... and an Ialian team, a team that had been involved in the scandal, a team regarded as cheats in Europe is about to play for the highest prize in Europen football and has reached those hights in style, showing to everyone that Italians don't need the help of refs in order to teach the strongest team in EPL, and for many the world this year, a football lesson in every sense of the word.

And ask yourself, if Milan doesn't turn the tide for all of Italian football in Europe and restore their smugged image, how do you think Europeans would see the titles, both in Italy and Europe, won by Juve during the Moggi era given that Juve was seen as the most guilty of all and even had two scudettos taken away from them? How big Juve will look in those other people's eyes, may of whom know Juve as a great team with great record namely from what was achieved under the Moggi era.

If Milan fails and creates the impression that Italian teams are "just not up to it" when all is fair and square, how do you think all those titles won by Juve over the last 10 years will be see given all the doping scandals and trials and last but not least a demotion to serie B for match fixing and what not? You think someone will have respect for those records?

As for Milan not getting too far ahead of Juve on financial terms, Tony, the finalists in the CL get pretty much the same amount of money ... in fact, it's often the case when some of the teams going out in the SFs get higher revenues than the finalsists themselves, at least that the case when it comes to money from UEFA and ticket sales, tv rights etc.

In Milan's case, we beat the most famous team in the world, not only beat them but beat them so good that they would be getting twitchy at the mention of Milan for years to come ... What more could Milan ask for, what better advertisement could Milan possibly make for themselves and Italian football (potentially more interest in Serie A) than beating ManU and thus attracting interest (read money) from all over the world?

My point is, by beating ManU and reaching the CL final, Milan already has a basket full of golden eggs on the shoulder, win or lose that final.
Winning the CL final, from now on is only a matter of prestige, prestige for Milan and Italian football in general and I think the latter needs it even more than Milan, after calciopoli and that embarrassment from Roma vs ManU ... and by the looks of how people in Europe "greeted" Milan this year after calciopoli with banners saying "Mafia" and so on, call me paranoid, but I doubt Juve - a club that officially has been much deeper invloved in the scandal - will reap even that much "respect" when they finally get back on the European scene.

So all in all, no matter how you cut it, Milan has already stacked up the moneys ... what is left for the taking is merely about prestige for Italian football in general, inluding Juve.
So, get out those Milan banners and flags you keep stashed in you closet and drag your butt to Athens to cheer for Milan ... with Juve in mind

Originally Posted by Hasan Rossonero

I just think that what Gerrard wrote (or got someone else to write) in his autobiography is wholly unprofessional.

Most of these players' autobiographies are penned with the help of ghostwriters anyway.