AC Milan make offer for Betis striker Oliveira

I know that you guys reading this is like me taking the beer away from a frat party but are you guys serious? Ricardo Olivera?
I have seen Ricardo Olivera play, and honestly i think he is a very goog player, but I still question whether he is Milan material

The way I see it, as far as strikers go,there are magical , there are great and there are good

A magical fowars is one who can turn a match on its head. When feeling in the mood defenders simply don't matter. Only a few come to mind here:
Ronaldo, Ronaldinho Shevchenko and Henry ( with Messi soon to join them)

Of what I have seen of Olivera, he is a pretty straightfoward striker- solid but nothing special. I hope he proves me wrong. Sobis on the other hand loked to have what it takes to become a magician- but hey Sheva Failed a dribbling test when he was a kid and look where he's at (and no I don't mean Chelsea )

Originally Posted by Rick

Real Madrid is the most successful club throughout history, but Milan has been more successful than Real Madrid during Berlusconi's ownership. Milan has won more European titles (4 to Madrid's 3, plus has appeared in the final 7 times during the period in question to just 3 for Madrid), more European Supercups (4 to Madrid's 1) and an equal number of Intercontinental Cups (2 apiece). The only area where Milan holds an edge is domestic titles (8 to Milan's 7) and even that could be argued for Milan in light of Juventus' actions over the past two seasons. So I stand by my statement that Berlusconi and his staff have made Milan the most successful club in the world.

And of course everyone should be able to show passion. But when that passion is misdirected be prepared for others to call you on it.

I think the only reason why Real Madrid is 'the most' successful is due to the fact that they won 3 or 4 European titles in the 60's.

Milan won more titles during the 'modern' era.

That's my 2 cents....

Originally Posted by Rick

I know exactly what you guys mean. It seems a lot of Milan fans would rather Milan follow a "gallacticos" policy like Real Madrid.

Hey, we signed nothing but average players all summer long, from Favalli to Bonera now to Oliveira.

Did Milan suddenly turn into Modena overnight?

At least 1-2 great signings would balance out our transfer season.

We are quite far away from anything resembling a gallaticos policy...

Originally Posted by rt9

Rick, there is no need to divide us into factions, and there is no need to call some of us "deluded". You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone here in the forum. And no matter how "optimistic" and "bright" your views are, it doesnt make it any better than anyone else's opinion. A few points I would like to make to counter your argument:

Nobody is dividing anybody into factions. It's just that some seem to be obsessively negative about everything and not only seem to have no faith in the management but seem to believe, by default, that any move Milan makes is a poor one. Some would not be satisfied no matter who Milan signed.

Originally Posted by rt9

1) Yes, Berlusconi/Galliani et al have made us a very successful club. But are you telling me that they have not made mistakes along the way? They are fallible just like the rest of us. Remember the Zaccheroni years? Remember Oscar Tabarez? Remember Martin Laursen? Remember Javi Moreno? Remember Lentini? I can go on and on. But our management has made their fair share of mistakes and if some of us are complaining about Oliveira's signing, it's not because we dont trust the management or we think we're better than them, it's simply because we are afraid that they might be making a mistake. What's wrong with that?

Nobody ever implied that Milan has never made a mistake. Everybody makes mistakes. But obviously Milan has made less mistakes than most or they would not have been so successful during the Berlusconi years. Okay, so you think Milan is making a mistake, right? What's wrong with that, you ask? Well, the fact is that Milan could be making a mistake no matter who they signed. Can you think of a single player Milan could be buying who would be a sure bet? There are no guarantees in life or in football. The Milan management knows more about these players than every poster here combined. If they have confidence that Oliveira will be a successful player at Milan, then I think he should be given the benefit of the doubt until he proves otherwise. Besides, if you notice, the posters who have actually seen the guy play with any frequency tend to be in favor of the signing. Most of the bitching seems to come from those who either haven't heard much about him or are worried that his name isn't linked to clubs that they obviously have more faith in than they do in Milan.

Originally Posted by rt9

2) If I told you six months ago that our squad for the 2006-2007 season would be minus Shevchenko and plus Oliveira. Would you be happy? I'm not, and I'm not even going to pretend to be happy. We are AC Milan. We are a BIG club with high expectations. If we lose Sheva, we EXPECT a more suitable replacement. What's wrong with that?

This entire line of reasoning is immaterial. Obviously I would not have been happy to lose Shevchenko. But you could have replaced Oliveira's name with any other and it would not change that fact. You say you EXPECT a more suitable replacement. Well who exactly is that? And what makes you a better judge of who is or is not a suitable replacement than the Milan brain trust?

Originally Posted by rt9

3) Why the all or nothing mentality? If some of us are demanding a high profile signing to REPLACE Sheva, why does that make us proponents of the galactico policy? Who has said that we need to have high profile players in every position on the pitch and occupying every square inch of our substitute bench? There is no need to make such broad generalizations.

Why does it have to be a so-called "high profile" signing? Personally, I don't give a crap if nobody ever heard of a player as long as he can contribute to Milan's success. Wouldn't you rather have a good player than a big name?

Originally Posted by rt9

4) I agree with Jim_UK about Oliveira. If he was indeed such a great name, why are no other clubs linked to him? Please dont tell me that the MIlan management are in to a secret about Oliveira's abilities which have not been discovered by the rest of the football world. Dont forget, He was our SECOND choice. We are signing him simply because we missed out on Ronaldo. I dont know about you, but second choice as a replacement for Sheva is not good enough for me.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions here. First off, you're assuming that no other clubs were interested in Oliveira simply because it wasn't splashed all over the same newspapers that had Kaka on his way to Real Madrid all summer, despite all the evidence to the contrary. You're putting entirely too much faith in the media to shape your opinions. The truth is, none of us have any idea what contacts and negotiations go on behind the scenes and therefore have no idea who might or might not have been interested in Oliveira. And, considering that it was assumed he would come back from rehab to play for Betis this year and he only recently became available, how do you know that Milan didn't simply react more quickly than other clubs and snatch him up?

Also, you don't know that he was a second choice. Again, you're relying on newspaper accounts. Milan has been linked to all sorts of strikers this summer, beginning with Thierry Henry, but nobody knows what has actually happened behind closed doors. How do you know that Milan didn't want to purchase both Oliveira and Ronaldo? How do you know they won't still acquire another striker? You don't. You're just making assumptions.

Originally Posted by rt9

I am also an optimistic person by nature, but I dont engage in fantasty and I dont "spin" things to justifiy people's actions or inactions in this matter. I am a realist and I will tell it like it is. Our managment has done very POORLY this summer with regards to transfers. They have grossly misjudged the potential of our team and our lack of squad depth. They have not strengthened the team adequately and we might pay a price for this down the line. Now you can call me "half empty" and "phan" or whatever you like, but sometimes when you love and care about something, you need to also criticize when you see that things arent going so well.

Milan probably missed out on a couple of good players due to the uncertainty surround the scandal and the Champions League, but how is that the fault of the management? What were they supposed to do? Would you rather they had just signed a bunch of mediocre players just to say they signed somebody? And you are making final judgements on a process that is not yet complete. The transfer window is not shut. There will be another in January. You have absolutely no idea what negotations are ongoing. What if Milan were to sign, for example, Tevez, Buffon, Oddo and Gallas this week? Would you still consider the transfer season a failure? And you can scream your head off saying Milan isn't going to sign those guys. Well, maybe they won't sign those particular guys. But there is still time to sign players, so why don't we just all try to remain calm and wait to see what happens?

Mister Rt9:

I want to congratulate you for the excellent post describing our current situation. I agree, in fact, with everything you said, and would like to add a footnote only: I guess our problem is a question of mentality. the board is not reacting with the correct frame of mind to the demands and characteristics of modern football market. As someone wrote before on the forum, marketing unfortunatelly is the key today, so the any talented player, or even just fairly talented ones, is rated artificially high, and there's no way to escape that.

Originally Posted by rt9

1) Yes, Berlusconi/Galliani et al have made us a very successful club. But are you telling me that they have not made mistakes along the way? They are fallible just like the rest of us. Remember the Zaccheroni years? Remember Oscar Tabarez? Remember Martin Laursen? Remember Javi Moreno? Remember Lentini? I can go on and on. .

Was saying to same thing to Grenoli in another thread. It wasn't too long ago that Milan had players like Giunti, Sala, Helveg, Laursen, Beirhoff (a footballer that couldn't use his BOTH his legs). Those were dark days!

Originally Posted by rt9

2) If I told you six months ago that our squad for the 2006-2007 season would be minus Shevchenko and plus Oliveira. Would you be happy? I'm not, and I'm not even going to pretend to be happy. We are AC Milan. We are a BIG club with high expectations. If we lose Sheva, we EXPECT a more suitable replacement. What's wrong with that?.

Well said!

Originally Posted by rt9

4) I agree with Jim_UK about Oliveira. If he was indeed such a great name, why are no other clubs linked to him?

This is an interesting point. People say Kaka was a relative unknown as well, but Chelsea was also tracking him and almost signed him.

Bottom line: if you wanna break big on today's football, you need to open your wallet, to splash the cash. There's no other option, it's take it or leave it.

Why do his posts seem so Gre-no-li-ish.. the wording is almost exactly the same. Maybe it's just me.. and it's kinda late and I'm tired..

Welcome to MM Schiaffino.

Please care to introduce yourself in the presentation thread: http://www.milanmania.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14

right on zafrul I mean I can't remember there being a big fuss over Olivera when he went to Spain, and once you're South American and you're half good you get a lot of hype. Note, I'm not saying that he isn't or isn't going to be great.


For the life of me I can't see what seems to be our problem with spending on players we NEED Ronaldo was one of them so was Sobis, so was Diarra and so is gallas.

Manchester United with their in-debt owner have bought Carrick and are hot on the heels of Tevez

What pisses me off the most is that Real Madrid is getting Chivu- a player that we wanted for years

Thank you, Rahul.

Real Madrid is not gettnig Chivu yet, he wants to stay at Roma and I honestly don't think he is gonna move.

is olivera official yet? i will believe that he is no more than a fringe player- a younger version of amoroso. we still need a world class striker. milan is ina big hole now. Before sheva left we needed a slighly better midfield and a younger defense, now its all those problems and the need for a world class striker - not cool

Originally Posted by zafrul

I think the only reason why Real Madrid is 'the most' successful is due to the fact that they won 3 or 4 European titles in the 60's.

Milan won more titles during the 'modern' era.

That's my 2 cents....

They won 5 cups in a row, probably at that time some real madrid fan was in charge of Fifa than. That only means that they were playing periodically good, and they played some bad football during the 70 s. 80 s and beginings of 90 s. until they won a Cl cup after 32 yers.

Originally Posted by joumasepoes

is olivera official yet? i will believe that he is no more than a fringe player- a younger version of amoroso. we still need a world class striker. milan is ina big hole now. Before sheva left we needed a slighly better midfield and a younger defense, now its all those problems and the need for a world class striker - not cool

Mystery on Oliveira's Milan move Sunday 27 August, 2006

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Milan confirmed Ricardo Oliveira underwent a medical yesterday, but his agent warns there are still obstacles to the transfer.

The 26-year-old Brazilian hitman, who spent much of last season on loan at San Paolo while he recovered from November’s knee ligament injury, took his medical examination at MilanLab on Saturday afternoon.


However, the official confirmation of the results – or of a signed contract – are still nowhere to be seen 24 hours later.


It’s now reported that the player and his agent have returned to Spain for a meeting with Real Betis Sevilla directors, as the club is holding out to delay this £10m transfer.


There are claims that President Lopera won’t release Oliveira until he pays the £700,000 fine for returning from Brazil nine days later than planned.


There could also be another penalty for his flight to Milan on Friday, as the striker failed to attend negotiations with Zenit St Petersburg and Fenerbahce, choosing instead to finalise details with the Rossoneri.


“It’s a delicate operation and we need time, so this has to be taken very, very slowly,” warned agent Roberto de Assis Moreira in the ‘Corriere dello Sport’.


“Milan are one of the biggest clubs in the world and, in particular, are always well supported in Brazil.”


Oliveira’s choice has also sparked interest among the Italian and South American newspapers, as his agent is the brother of Ronaldinho – a confirmed Rossoneri target.


“My brother is my idol,” said Moreira. “He is a hero who has always helped me in my life.” It’s reported that if Ronaldinho does decide to leave Barcelona, his number one choice would be Milan.


Other newspapers take a different view of the situation, believing that the delay in Oliveira’s transfer is so that the San Siro giants can renew their bid to sign Ronaldo from Real Madrid.


Negotiations for a £15m move collapsed earlier this week due to the price-tag, but with Coach Fabio Capello unsure of his fitness, the Spaniards could still drop their demands.