All posts re: the Italian Football Scandal (Moggipoli)

Originally Posted by Kui

I somewhat agreed to what you said earlier in your post. Just somewhat. Yet I unequivocally disagree with what you said above. Whether the transcript is false or not, any judge with some knowledge of sane jurisprudence would have thrown out the taps as evidence in a court of law. The source to which the taps were acquired from is in direct conflict of interest and an affront to law and due process of the law. Had law enforcement used a non-biased source to get these taps, then YES the evidence can a should be accepted legally. But when the source is too closely attached to a rival club and its owner, then my friend you have a serious problem. It is an abuse to law, fundamental civil rights regarding privacy, and all the integrity that ought to be behind it.
Look closely at what you are advocating and take off your Blue and Black glasses. What happen was not anything close to enforcement of law or instilling any sort of integrity in Serie A.

Very well said, again !


I only want to add something to this part :

Originally Posted by Kui

Had law enforcement used a non-biased source to get these taps, then YES the evidence can a should be accepted legally.

Yes, this is true and i'm not disagreeing for what you say, but i would have disagreed with the judges if they've relegated Juve, put Lazio and Fiorentina out of Europe and gave such a big punishment to Milan, even if the evidence was given by a non-biased part.
Because, what was on those tapes that was prooving match fixing ???
Bag full of cash was enough to relegate Genoa 2 years ago - i agree
Betting on certain match by the players who play on that match is match fixing again - i agree with tough punishment but not on relegation !

But asking : "I want xxx on my match" isn't enough for relegation or such hard punishment as the other clubs got.


Hate and envy it was , Kui !

Originally Posted by Kui

Those apparently were the facts and proof people needed

Sad, but true.
I just read the first 5 pages of this topic. Mrki ( no hard feelings for mentioning your name, mate) started shouting : Shot down Juve, put them in serie C, right after the first 5 Moggi's conversations with the designator, when Moggi asked him for some refs on some friendly match.
Even that was enough for most of the people. That was the "proof" they were waiting for, and even that would have been enough for them ( and even for the justice system, i'm affraid) to relegate Juve.
Hate and envy, obviously !

But then, when "evidence" for Juve was found, someone somehow found the same "evidence" for Milan, and this time again, apart from Milan and Juve fans, all the others who didn't win anything in last 15 years started shouting "Shot down Milan, put them in C" , just like Mrki was shouting few days before.
Hate and Envy again, but this time it's Milan the hated club.

Originally Posted by Tony29.

Can someone tell me , with facts and proves :

1. Why was Juve relegated ?
But please, serious answers !

I can seriously sum it up in 2 words. Hate and Envy.

Those apparently were the facts and proof people needed. And disappointingly the supposed justice system agreed.
If they can get you on hate and envy, I'd sure like to know what the punishment is for something really serious?

Bergamo said there were numerous phonecalls between him and the deceased former Inter president Fachetti, far more than the Moggi and Meani tapes, but no tapes have surfaced of those. Coincidence? Yeah. right. In his opinion calciopoli was steered in a precise direction by someone, of course there is no proof. Interesting to note is that such a statement from the former head of referees comission, backed also by former ref De Santis is not being properly investigated. Since both lost their so called credibility because they got convicted in calciopoli some think they just want revenge, but what if they had nothing to lose anymore? So they just want to tell the whole story?

Calciopoli investigation and trial has been conducted in a theatrical manner, it's outcome was already clear before judgement. The verdicts were in the press and on the street, it was histerical even.

Concerning Milan, we're the only club that had no discount allowed from the first judgement, not a single point... some rumors and speculation even pretend that the CONI arbitration court was pressured by Romani Prodi himself to not grant any gifts to Berlusconi's team.

In fact, there is still plenty to dig into, but the FIGC wants to put this case as far behind them as quickly as possible, because if what would surface is even worse as Calciopoli 1, if evidence should be found of manipulation by more teams, then Italian football will be finished totaly.

It received already very big blows with players now prefereing to play abbroad than to come to Serie A, a new blow and the few we still got will eventualy pack their bags also, so now the FIGC and their witch hunters conviently stfu and pretend they're deaf to Bergamo's declarations.

Originally Posted by Pireloke

Bergamo .... Interesting to note is that such a statement from the former head of referees comission, backed also by former ref De Santis is not being properly investigated. Since both lost their so called credibility because they got convicted in calciopoli some think they just want revenge, but what if they had nothing to lose anymore? So they just want to tell the whole story?

I have to correct you on this.
Bergamo said exactly the same thing in June, when he wasn't convicted yet. But apart from 2-3 newspapers noone ( absolutely noone, including pro-Berlu media) didn't pay attention to this and they acted like Bergamo never said it.
We have this in juve forums and we discussed it during the World Cup.
But there was an anti-Juve crusade going on and Bergamo's words had to be ignored back then.

Originally Posted by Tony29.

I have to correct you on this.
Bergamo said exactly the same thing in June, when he wasn't convicted yet. But apart from 2-3 newspapers noone ( absolutely noone, including pro-Berlu media) didn't pay attention to this and they acted like Bergamo never said it.
We have this in juve forums and we discussed it during the World Cup.
But there was an anti-Juve crusade going on and Bergamo's words had to be ignored back then.

I wasn't aware he already declared this before he was convicted, thanks for pointing that out, this fact, imo, gives even more weight and credibility to his accusations... but as I said, they have covered it all up now and it's unlikely it will resurface any time again soon, but there's still a rotting stench under the cover, and some day someone is bound to smell it and take a look to see where it is coming from, at least one can hope.

Its so roman isnt it? Too see the lengths at which some will go to get the coveted Corona Graminea is mind boggling. I come to the conclusion of hate and envy because apparently everyone had an equal apparatus to try to get the title in so many ways other than the 90 min. on the pitch. Remember when I was talking about if a conspiracy exists, that it has to be a consorted effort by EVERYONE to have that "understanding", the "wink wink"? Well it seems, though no one was in cahoots to always give Juve the title, EVERYONE knew full well that they had to develope a questionable modus operandi of some sort to influence refs, officials, regulators on both high and low levels to get leverage or positioning in Serie A. From there a measure of success can be based on league standing and European success as well as the lucrative calciomercato. No member here can deny that such an operation existed within all the clubs in CalcioItalia. Most of you admitted that this is how Italy works. So here we have a league of cheaters yet we only punish Juve because they were supposedly the best at doing this? So in a pack/pact (both words apply) of thieves, should we not punish all or did this stupid justice system all of a sudden become very selective. Just punish the thieves we hate the most cause they took too big of a slice from the pie? Again that seems to be the case. And from the what I see so far, nothing has been fixed. Anyone here happy with the results of Moggi-Poli?

CONI decided today Galliani's punishment to be reduced for 4 months, so now he'll be able to do his stuff after December 23 2006 .
Originally, his ban was supposed to expire on April 23 2006 !


Btw, anyone knows what was his ban about ? What wasn't he supposed to do ?
Because i never noticed he was banned !

Originally Posted by Tony29.

Btw, anyone knows what was his ban about ? What wasn't he supposed to do ?
Because i never noticed he was banned !

exactly... i think it;s just a matter of official stuff.....

anything new???

Originally Posted by Kui

anything new???

Nothing big!
Some statements from time to time.
The latest one from today, said by Carlo Mazzone ( that old manager who coached Livorno last year, and Bologna, Brescia, Napoli, Roma and took the scudetto from Juve with Perugia in 2000 )

"Independently of football, I say that Juventus is the lady of football and I don't agree with the decision to send them in Serie B. Juventus deservedly won the scudetto on the pitch. You guys that know everything, tell me in wich games they commited illicit measures? The Old Lady is missing to the Serie A, so is Napoli".

Carlo Mazzone


As for legal measures, only Juventus' shareholders are left trying to do something. On January 18 , 200 shareholders will appeal to TAR against the decission from October 27 .
The club Juventus isn't officialy behind them, and they are doing this on their own.
These people lost money, so noone can blame them for appealing, but i doubt something big will come out of this.

EDIT : And if they aren't doing this as fans, i really don't understand what are they trying to achieve !?!
They won't get back the money they lost, because Juve is allready in B and out of Europe for 2 years at least.
Most Juve can get back now are the 2 scudettos, and it has nothing to do with bringing their money back.

I suck at economics, though . Maybe they can get something back, who knows ?

Interesting news here :

Today is scheduled an appeal by "Ego di Napoli", an association working on "ethics" in general, against the assignment of the scudetto to inter. In fact, our (Juve's) scudetto was given to them -by a commission named by Guido Rossi- for their ethics.
The president of the Ego di Napoli association, Mr Di Monda (a lawyer), claims that Inter can't be given an "ethic" scudetto, when they have falsified passoports, stolen driving licences, tapped and stalked their players, have 180 millions euro of debt, etc..

Many (I was one of them) thought that it was very probable for the appeal not to be admitted by the court (TAR), cause the ones appealing have nothing to do with either Juve, inter, or figc.

Quite unexpectedly, the appeal has been admitted.

Now the judges will enter into the matter and decide whether to take the scudetto away from the perdazzurri or not.

In any case, anyway, this appeal wouldn't give the scudetto back to Juve or asign it to Milan or someone else !

Chances for this to happen are pretty big.
Will Inter lose the scudetto ? Lets see

Originally Posted by Tony29.

Interesting news here :

Today is scheduled an appeal by "Ego di Napoli", an association working on "ethics" in general, against the assignment of the scudetto to inter. In fact, our (Juve's) scudetto was given to them -by a commission named by Guido Rossi- for their ethics.
The president of the Ego di Napoli association, Mr Di Monda (a lawyer), claims that Inter can't be given an "ethic" scudetto, when they have falsified passoports, stolen driving licences, tapped and stalked their players, have 180 millions euro of debt, etc..

Many (I was one of them) thought that it was very probable for the appeal not to be admitted by the court (TAR), cause the ones appealing have nothing to do with either Juve, inter, or figc.

Quite unexpectedly, the appeal has been admitted.

Now the judges will enter into the matter and decide whether to take the scudetto away from the perdazzurri or not.

In any case, anyway, this appeal wouldn't give the scudetto back to Juve or asign it to Milan or someone else !

Chances for this to happen are pretty big.
Will Inter lose the scudetto ? Lets see

No but it would take it away from Inter who did not deserve it on the field and had it assigned by one of it's former board members. It should be null and void and not assigned at all. And I sure would like to see Morrati's face in the papers and the scudetto's stripped from their chests too...

interesting news ... I had stopped paying attention to what's been going on regarding this matter.

hehehe, I hope this happens....

this indeed is very interesting news. I hope that Inter will be stripped of that scudetto, and I hope that roma will surpass them successfully, leaving Inter crying and waiting (still) for their first championship since 1989.