All posts re: the Italian Football Scandal (Moggipoli)

Originally Posted by Hasan Rossonero

I agree...i was being sarcastic...should use emoticons more... here it is:

Oh, OK, I thought you really meant what you said

Ah seriously! The hypocracy is sickening. I have have heard this cr@p going on about Juve and no honesty about the possibilty of us being tainted. You know I dont what kind of morals people have today but we shouldnt be laying accusation after accusation after accusation about others without seeing the possibility that we smell like sh!t as well. Trust me I'm calm. The concern should be towards hypocrites in this site.

Originally Posted by Kui

Ah seriously! The hypocracy is sickening. I have have heard this cr@p going on about Juve and no honesty about the possibilty of us being tainted. You know I dont what kind of morals people have today but we shouldnt be laying accusation after accusation after accusation about others without seeing the possibility that we smell like sh!t as well. Trust me I'm calm. The concern should be towards hypocrites in this site.

Kui I think most on here would agree...if Milan did something wrong then they should be punished.

Those who don't are indeed blinkered as you suggest.

But what zlatanov is saying also makes sense. The proof out there for Juve is a damning one...for us and whatever number of clubs involved it is still unclear.

Originally Posted by zlatanov

Hey, tell me this when there are phone calls from galliani to Pairetto and back, OK?
There is a slight dif between tapped phone calls and suspicions. Several months ago, Juve were on the "suspicions" level but since those calls made to the papers, they moved a whole bunch of levels up on the "guilty or not" scale.
Also, their bourd of directors isn't exactly acting like a bunch of innocent people, right?
When tapped phone calls appear in the papers, whe our bourd resignes, when we win 6 out of 10 scudettos even when we are far from the best team in Italy and rob teams like Inter, Lazio, Parma, Roma from the title in the last games of the season with uncalled PKs and such, then come and compare Milan with Juve. Until, then stay in that hole of yours and don't try to explain the meaning of the word "proof" or whatever you trying to say ... it's not making much sense, really.
Peace.

Tell me there isnt taps of Galliani and Pairetto! Proof it to me Zlat. You cant do it either can you??? That's what I thought!

Originally Posted by Kui

Tell me there isnt taps of Galliani and Pairetto! Proof it to me Zlat. You cant do it either can you??? That's what I thought!

by that rationale...show me that there are not wire taps between abramovich and poll...you can't? Then Chelsea are under suspicion in the Premier League.

I understand you have a commitment to truth...but you are not the only one.

currently there are no evidences we are involved into the scandal, the public prosecutors speak about a "power lobby" but this doesn't necessarely mean we'll be charged or even prosecuted.

calm down

Originally Posted by Kui

Ah seriously! The hypocracy is sickening. I have have heard this cr@p going on about Juve and no honesty about the possibilty of us being tainted. You know I dont what kind of morals people have today but we shouldnt be laying accusation after accusation after accusation about others without seeing the possibility that we smell like sh!t as well. Trust me I'm calm. The concern should be towards hypocrites in this site.

call it whaever you want, in case of no Proof - as proof is understood by non-currupt Italian judge - the only hard evidence we have is facts, what have we won, what could we have won, what have we lost, and how. I laid those facts/stats for you and I am waiting for your comments on it, does a well-oiled bribing mechanism win you what we have won over the past decade or not? Now, compare that to Juve's case? Compare the Moggi tapped phone calls to those they have on Galliani. oh wait, they don't have any of him, right. Does that mean he's clean? I guess it does NOT but hey, if are so keen on using court slangs, isn't one innocent until proven otherwise? And trust me Moggi (Juve) is miles ahead of Adriano (Milan) in that aspect.
So, what are we gonna do now - Juve got phonetapped, so let's even things out and assume that Galliani got tapped also and it'sonly a quastion of time before those calls are published as well? Well, wait till then and then then start comparing who has what on Juve and who has waht on Milan.

No what I see is people having the commitment to covet. I see people thinking of it only as an advantage for Milan and not a pursuit of justice. I see it that people arent intersted in truth but what "we get out of it". All of a sudden some "wiretaps" is a revelation to people's theories as proof positive to what still is an ALLEGATION.

Originally Posted by Kui

Tell me there isnt taps of Galliani and Pairetto! Proof it to me Zlat. You cant do it either can you??? That's what I thought!

you hardly making sense to yourself even, let alone to someone else. read my previous post that might clear a few things up although with that irrational fog you are in, I doubt it.
Don't wanna sound insultingly arrogant but hate it when people start talking with assumptions about things they only wished they knew better.
peace

Originally Posted by Kui

No what I see is people having the commitment to covet. I see people thinking of it only as an advantage for Milan and not a pursuit of justice. I see it that people arent intersted in truth but what "we get out of it". All of a sudden some "wiretaps" is a revelation to people's theories as proof positive to what still is an ALLEGATION.

again, for a 1000th time - this is why we have facts. Proof supports guilt, facts support allegations, or deny them. As you see, the word TRUTH is nowhere to be seen there because who are you, in that matter who are we to define something as TRUE or FALSE. How do you PROVE what is true and what's not. Opps, we agian came back to the use of that PROOF word, like it not.
Again, 2 scudetto's in a decade, for one of the top teams not just in Italy but Europe altogether, and numerous PKs and RC's against them. What do these FACTS tell you. Do they support the ALLEGATIONS that we have been bribing left and right? Again, 2 scudettos in 10-11 years for a team that could have won 4-5 and no one would have suspected any irregularities simply because it's normal for the top team to become the champ. Yet, we are stationed on just 2. Does that speak "bribe allegations aren't just allegations" to you?

Originally Posted by zlatanov

the only hard evidence we have is facts, what have we won, what could we have won, what have we lost, and how.

You see.... this is what I'm talking about. No interest in what is right. Only interest in what we should have gotten out of it.

Originally Posted by Zlatanov

I laid those facts/stats for you and I am waiting for your comments on it,

You've laid factoids Zlat. You've given me numerical stats to compare our success to that of Juve's as your facts. I'm laying unto you principles. You've used these factoids as proof of impropriety. I have laid principles as a reason NOT to be so quick to accuse lest we be willing to look at ourselves and not discriminately exonerate ourselves from this whole scandal.

This investigation isnt even done yet Zlat. They have more ground to cover and now with us under investigation, while it doesnt bear any burden of guilt, shows us that these scandal is far and wide. Like I said we should welcome this investigation if we are to fully be confident of our innocnence. Likewise I said if we expect our peers from other clubs to give us consideration of innocnence, we should accord them the same priviledges. BIG difference from what you've been doing for weeks now... laying accusations Zlat!

Originally Posted by zlatanov

again, for a 1000th time - this is why we have facts. Proof supports guilt, facts support allegations, or deny them. As you see, the word TRUTH is nowhere to be seen there because who are you, in that matter who are we to define something as TRUE or FALSE. How do you PROVE what is true and what's not. Opps, we agian came back to the use of that PROOF word, like it not.
Again, 2 scudetto's in a decade, for one of the top teams not just in Italy but Europe altogether, and numerous PKs and RC's against them. What do these FACTS tell you. Do they support the ALLEGATIONS that we have been bribing left and right? Again, 2 scudettos in 10-11 years for a team that could have won 4-5 and no one would have suspected any irregularities simply because it's normal for the top team to become the champ. Yet, we are stationed on just 2. Does that speak "bribe allegations aren't just allegations" to you?

AGAIN for the 1000th time Zlat. You are the one who claims to have PROOF and TRUTH! WHo the hell are you to think you have this??? You are the one who has laid FACTOIDS as PROOF to something in your head as TRUTH!
Convenient of you to only go back only 10 years yet suprisingly ignore the extra 5 years as that would just not help your factoid filled proof of TRUTH.

Originally Posted by Kui

Tell me there isnt taps of Galliani and Pairetto! Proof it to me Zlat. You cant do it either can you??? That's what I thought!

You asking me to prove the non-existance of something that might exist but may very well NOT exist at all. If it that makes sense to you, then congrats cause few people here would fathom it. And since I don't know how to prove the non-existence of something that might not exist in the first place, I would like to ask you to prove that God exists, or to make matter more equivallent, prove me that God doesn't exist.
When you done with the proof, let me know so that I can use your approach to the case in question.

Originally Posted by zlatanov

You asking me to prove the non-existance of something that might exist but may very well NOT exist at all. If it that makes sense to you, then congrats cause few people here would fathom it. And since I don't know how to prove the non-existence of something that might not exist in the first place, I would like to ask you to prove that God exists, or to make matter more equivallent, prove me that God doesn't exist.
When you done with the proof, let me know so that I can use your approach to the case in question.

Well I'll respond by saying I hope you never enter in a court of law as a jury member. God forbid you be a bigot and some guy of color should have to plead his case before you. You've already shown your indifference of impartiality regarding Juve.

Originally Posted by Kui

AGAIN for the 1000th time Zlat. You are the one who claims to have PROOF and TRUTH! WHo the hell are you to think you have this??? You are the one who has laid FACTOIDS as PROOF to something in your head as TRUTH!
Convenient of you to only go back only 10 years yet suprisingly ignore the extra 5 years as that would just not help your factoid filled proof of TRUTH.

I have never claimed that Kui, and stop putting words in my mouth just to make your senseless BS sound more real.
All I know is that there are pages and pages of tapped phone calls ciculating tha papers. All I know is that instead of denying all this, Moggi is on his way out of Juve, FCS their whole board of directors is ALREADY out. One thing can offically only become PROOF if the court says so, for me and the simple falk, however the tapped calls and the reaction, or rather the lack of it, by the Juve directors is more than enough to take my previous suspicions to the, how did you call it - "the factoids" level, I think.
Until, there is a tapped phone call of Galliani talking to pairetto, suspicions will remain just that, but to start equalling us with Juve - no longer just mere suspicions but hard evidence all over the press, evidence they don't seem too vigorous in denying it - that's just a load of BS from someone who likes saying "I told you so"