UEFA Champions League 2008-2009

@ Brasileiro - I was talking (in my "thought") about the catenaccio-approach Chelsea (and to a lesser degree United) used against Barca and particularly Messi. He constantly had 3 or 4 players no him every time he had the ball anywhere near Chelsea's area. It was more severe in the 1st leg where Chelsea only tried to destroy Barca's play, but even in the 2nd leg Messi had something resembling a triple man-marking. And I just wondered how, for example, Kaká would have coped with that.

@ Geotav - I agree with those differences between Milan and Barca, and that Barca are pretty much a one-trick pony (in the best sense of the word, might I add), and Messi is too. But I do think we have struggled too when playing against very negative teams, teams of lesser stature (both physically and quality-wise) than Chelsea. I am talking about Serie A teams who "park the bus".

@ Christian - How does Cristiano have a "better approach" than Messi and Ronaldinho? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, just not sure exactly what you mean.

Originally Posted by Ceceves

@ Brasileiro - I was talking (in my "thought") about the catenaccio-approach Chelsea (and to a lesser degree United) used against Barca and particularly Messi. He constantly had 3 or 4 players no him every time he had the ball anywhere near Chelsea's area. It was more severe in the 1st leg where Chelsea only tried to destroy Barca's play, but even in the 2nd leg Messi had something resembling a triple man-marking. And I just wondered how, for example, Kaká would have coped with that.

@ Geotav - I agree with those differences between Milan and Barca, and that Barca are pretty much a one-trick pony (in the best sense of the word, might I add), and Messi is too. But I do think we have struggled too when playing against very negative teams, teams of lesser stature (both physically and quality-wise) than Chelsea. I am talking about Serie A teams who "park the bus".

@ Christian - How does Cristiano have a "better approach" than Messi and Ronaldinho? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, just not sure exactly what you mean.

Yes, but it is the CL topic and we all know that there is a Serie A Milan and a CL Milan ... (except last year)

Didn't you notice how we can play brilliant football in CL and struggle against the first opponent playing in counter-attack in Serie A ?

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Yes, but it is the CL topic and we all know that there is a Serie A Milan and a CL Milan ... (except last year)

Didn't you notice how we can play brilliant football in CL and struggle against the first opponent playing in counter-attack in Serie A ?

Of course, you can't help but notice that . But I remember Kaká saying two years ago (when asked how come Milan ruled the CL but sucked in Serie A - it wasn't quite phrased like that!) that Milan struggled in the Serie A because most teams played with 10 men behind the ball, while in the CL the teams tried to attack, leaving more space for Milan.

Originally Posted by Ceceves

Of course, you can't help but notice that . But I remember Kaká saying two years ago (when asked how come Milan ruled the CL but sucked in Serie A - it wasn't quite phrased like that!) that Milan struggled in the Serie A because most teams played with 10 men behind the ball, while in the CL the teams tried to attack, leaving more space for Milan.

Actually, the Chelsea-Barcelona game is a good example of the variation between our teams:

Chelsea played a kind of Catenaccio but they attacked anyway, at start it was just with Drogba (so it was of course hard for Barcelona to counter-attack as there were a 9-man-defence + the GK), and progressively, more players from Chelsea tried to attack, but Barcelona didn't manage to counter-attack quickly even there.
What would have happened with us ? We would have maybe struggle to counter-attack quickly, so we would have given the ball to Pirlo to allow him to launch a run by one of our fast players (Kaka', Pato nowadays) with long balls.

And it's what Kaka' says: when a team in CL plays a 10-man-defence, they end by trying to score with more players and open spaces because to qualify in CL, you need to score goals. In Serie A, when a team decides to play a 10-man-defence against us, they have no problem to do it for 90 minutes as a 0-0 is a good result against a team like Milan ...

Originally Posted by GeoTav

What would have happened with us ? We would have maybe struggle to counter-attack quickly, so we would have given the ball to Pirlo to allow him to launch a run by one of our fast players (Kaka', Pato nowadays) with long balls.

In theory, if anyone could break such a defensive force it might be us - BUT I would like to see us actually do it next season if we face Chelsea or the like. Most likely though, Chelsea would take a different approach against us, as frankly they wouldn't be as afraid to leave space for us as they were against Barca.

Originally Posted by Ceceves

@ Christian - How does Cristiano have a "better approach" than Messi and Ronaldinho? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, just not sure exactly what you mean.

What i ment was his proffesionalism. I know he has gotten a bad rep, but I think that's more down to him being very unsympathetic, both with his comments after games, and his behavior on the field. Still he seems very disciplined when he's playing for Man Utd, he's not completly absent whenever his team doesn't have the ball, like Ronaldinho, and he's the first one to get in position when they get the ball, which is why he's so good at counter attacks, and probably also why he scores so many goals, because almost all Manchester Uniteds attacks are finished by him. I know alot of people would point out the Porto game where he lost the ball, but I don't think that's very typical of him. I do think he has a good work ethic, better than Messi, and obviously better than Ronaldinho. The other thing about him is that you don't hear about how he doesn't work in training etc. like you do with Ronaldinho, and that's why Ronaldinho in particular could learn something from him, because alot of players are very proffesional, but often 'superstars' become lazy.

As i said earlier, he's no where near as talented as Messi or Ronaldinho if you ask me. He doesn't posses the vision of Ronaldinho, or the dribbling ability of both of them. He isn't able to play as fast as neither either. He has a good shot though, but so does Pato, and I'm hoping he'll rock the Champions League next season!

I agree he works harder than Ronaldinho when his team isn't in possession, but truth be told the same goes for 99,9% of all professional football players! Since Ronaldinho left Barca (or since Guardiola arrived) every Barca player put alot of pressure on the opponent when the team don't have the ball, including Messi, so from what I've seen it's hard to say whether Ronaldo or Messi are more active to recover the ball, I'd say it's pretty even. What I do hold against Ronaldo is his tendency to get "nasty" when things aren't going his way, he tends to make dirty tackles and spend too much time complaining to the ref and shake his head in disbelief. Maybe it's because of his me-against-the-world attitude, but it's certainly not a good quality of his.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

No, not only from this game and at start, I didn't hate this player ... nor like him, I was just neutral. But look at him since he is in Chelsea: he always contests the decisions of the referees (not only against Barcelona), he often makes vicious fouls like Van Bommel, maybe it is a syndrom that 30+ midfielders have when they see their influence on the game dropping ? Juninho does exactly the same things in Lyon.

No, its just that Ballack is over shadowed by the Best, infect the Greatest pure midfielder of the modern era, Frank Lampard

But having said that, I must say that Ballack is a beast playing for Germany and still is among the top 5 midfielders of the world

Originally Posted by mzk57

No, its just that Ballack is over shadowed by the Best, infect the Greatest pure midfielder of the modern era, Frank Lampard

But having said that, I must say that Ballack is a beast playing for Germany and still is among the top 5 midfielders of the world

So, with the best midfielder in the world, and two of the best midfielders in the world (Ballack from your point of view + Essien from my point of view), this team can't win CL ?

Amazing ...
Lampard is a very good player, nothing more.
Ballack is a good player, overrated.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

So, with the best midfielder in the world, and two of the best midfielders in the world (Ballack from your point of view + Essien from my point of view), this team can't win CL ?

Amazing ...
Lampard is a very good player, nothing more.
Ballack is a good player, overrated.

With the best midfield in the world they can't get a passing % over 60 and get more than 30% possession??

Originally Posted by Christian

With the best midfield in the world they can't get a passing % over 60 and get more than 30% possession??

My sentence was very ironical ... if Lampard was the best midfielder in the world and Ballack in the Top 5, by adding Essien, they would win everything !! But it's not the case, Lampard and Ballack are far to be the best or are far from the best players for Ballack ...

Originally Posted by GeoTav

My sentence was very ironical ... if Lampard was the best midfielder in the world and Ballack in the Top 5, by adding Essien, they would win everything !! But it's not the case, Lampard and Ballack are far to be the best or are far from the best players for Ballack ...

Yeah I know. I should've probably been a bit more clear. Was just making 'fun' of Chelsea in my post. Perhaps I should've used another smiley then a skull

Originally Posted by Christian

Yeah I know. I should've probably been a bit more clear. Was just making 'fun' of Chelsea in my post. Perhaps I should've used another smiley then a skull

Oh sorry, I misunderstood ... I actually wasn't sure, after the post of mzk57 (who was surely serious), I thought you were too !!

Final tomorrow, go Barca!

United and Barça promise 'fantastic' final
Tuesday 26 May 2009
Match preview by Andrew Haslam from Rome
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Great expectations surround the final at the Stadio OlimpicoGreat expectations surround the final at the Stadio Olimpico (©UEFA)Photos/WallpapersPhotos/Wallpapers »

FC Barcelona and Manchester United FC are ready to put on a spectacle worthy of a place in history when they meet in the UEFA Champions League final in Rome, the Eternal City.

Stirring finale
Two of European football's most evocative names, the newly crowned champions of England and Spain, cross paths at the Stadio Olimpico with United aiming to become the first team in 19 years to successfully defend the European Champion Clubs' Cup and the first in the UEFA Champions League era. Having already lifted the Liga and Copa del Rey this month Barcelona have the chance to claim an unprecedented Spanish treble. It promises to be one of the more stylish gladiatorial contests staged in the city of the Colosseum, with Sir Alex Ferguson saying simply: "It has the capability to be a fantastic final."

History help
United have never lost a European Cup final while two of this competition's three previous showpiece matches in Rome ended in an English victory. According to Sir Alex, another success is essential to justify his club's ever-growing stature. "I've repeated many times we should have done better in Europe. To be in the pantheon of great teams, the prerequisite is to win this cup. It's an opportunity for us to go alongside a lot of the great teams. This team has that type of future – it's a young squad with the right type of experience which can do well in the next few years. Hopefully we can endorse that."

Ferdinand return
Captain Rio Ferdinand is fit again after a calf injury, although United will be without the suspended Darren Fletcher as they bid to become the first side since AC Milan in 1989 and 1990 to land back-to-back European Cups. "We're good at doing things for the first time," Sir Alex added with pride. "It's interesting and unusual that no one has defended the trophy since the Champions League started, because in the history of the European Cup it was done regularly. We have an opportunity to change that and hopefully we can take it."

Glorious campaign
While the United boss is at the end of his 35th season as a manager, Josep Guardiola is concluding his first and, though two trophies are already in the Camp Nou cabinet, the 38-year-old – 29 years Sir Alex's junior – is not finished yet. "It's been a great season but it can still finish badly, there's a lot still to do. In football things can change very suddenly. I've been very lucky to have a squad of players who are very good tactically and technically. We want to show how good we are and how hard we've worked by winning tomorrow."

Defensive reshuffle
Barcelona's usual full-backs Daniel Alves and Eric Abidal are suspended and Rafael Márquez has a knee injury so Yaya Touré will drop back to central defence with captain Carles Puyol filling in at right-back, Seydou Keita on the left and 20-year-old Sergi Busquets replacing Keita in midfield. Andrés Iniesta and Thierry Henry should be fit after thigh and knee problems respectively, with Guardiola adding: "If they're OK they will play – if they're not, they won't. I think they'll be there. I would have liked to have more players at my disposal but that's how it is. It's going to be a great final."

uefa.com

Can't wait for the final as well, but I'm even more anxious to see what action Milan takes this summer. I can't wait for next year's CL.