Banter 2009/2010

The best way to shut him up is to beat him on the field, and we didn't do that. So now, we have to sit there and take his crap after being dominated by them again. Don't trip over JM, hes just one of those coaches who does these shenanigans to get himself more attention.

I wrote this at the Inter thread, so I'll write it again, because it belongs here.

If we want to make anything out of this season, we need good starting SB and good backup CB until the end of this mercato. That's a minimum. Wing-forward as a replacement for Pato would be good, but that's too much for our management.

I was really disappointed with our side-backs last night. I'm sure that Galliani knows that Abate is not new Cafu after last night, not even close. I really like the fight that this guy provides, but there's no quality in him to be good SB, he even doesn't have a quality to use his speed the right way. One could argue that he's young and he will get better in time, but this guy has confidence of 16 years old (let alone quality) and that is what worries me most. He just passes it to Beckham or crosses it, like he's afraid of doing something bad. Santon, for example, is very over-hyped talent but he's great for his age because he's super-confident and calm for his age. He has guts to take on players with the ball, which Abate lacks, though he's much faster and stronger than Santon. I'm afraid he's not good at SB position even as a substitute. Antonini on the other hand is good enough, but for the bench. Many of Milan supporters think that Antonini is good because he has room to improve, but most of them forgets that he's 27 already and there's a little room to improve when you're that age. I read here that Pancaro was world-class for us at the age of 32, and he was nothing before. The truth is, Pancaro was great for us, but that was just for one season and he was very good player before, winning UEFA Cup and Serie A with Lazio. Massimo Oddo was average player and than he suddenly became best side-back in Serie A at the age of 29, before we bought him, only to be back to his old average-self after just one season. We badly need a side-back like Maicon or Cissokho or Dani Alves, i.e. a side-back who can beat players with the ball, quick and strong. Abate isn't confident enough to do this, although he could, and Antonini is easily pushed away from the ball as soon as he reaches first opponent. Zambrotta was that kind of player in his prime, but he lost it. Anyway he's our only good enough side-back up and down the pitch.

As for a CB, I will be quick here. Bonera is good, but he's always injured, Favalli is old and Kaladze lost it. Onyewu is a joke in a team like Milan.

I think time has erased a lot of memories for us. IF I remember this correctly, Bonera was never really that good either. He is ok, better than Kaladze (who isn't these days), but he could never replace Nesta or Silva. He is not even in the same stratosphere as the other world class CBs. And now that he has been on the injury list for over a year, I doubt he could really make a difference any more. Since our entire game plan is based on having two rock solid CBs, we need to spend and buy someone really good at this position. I don't know Astori is that person, but I haven't seen enough of him to really judge.

Originally Posted by slifersd

I think time has erased a lot of memories for us. IF I remember this correctly, Bonera was never really that good either. He is ok, better than Kaladze (who isn't these days), but he could never replace Nesta or Silva. He is not even in the same stratosphere as the other world class CBs. And now that he has been on the injury list for over a year, I doubt he could really make a difference any more. Since our entire game plan is based on having two rock solid CBs, we need to spend and buy someone really good at this position. I don't know Astori is that person, but I haven't seen enough of him to really judge.

I generally agree with you, but there's NO world-class center backs willing to sit on the bench, even at Milan. Bonera isn't world-class, but he's a very good defender, and a great cover defender. One defender who's closest to world-class, that crosses my mind at the moment, and he's a bench player, is Cordoba at Inter, but I think he's not better than Bonera right now, because he lost it a little over the years. Bonera was a great talent, great reader of the game, but injuries stopped him from becoming world-class defender.

Bonera was a great talent when he was in Brescia, but his progression stalled after he signed with Parma. He went from being the new Nesta to being an above average defender. Either way, I think we can both agree that he is not someone who can replace Silva or Nesta for more than one or two games in a roll.

What I am proposing isn't that we sign a world class defender to sit on the bench. With the lack of quality CBs in the world right now, that is a luxury no team can afford. The way we should go about it is to either sign a great CB to start over Nesta or a young talent like Santacroce. Nesta is 34 years old and has a lot of injuries on his body. He wouldn't mind playing as a part time starter, the same way Maldini was for us in the later stages of his career. This way, we basically have three CBs rotation. On the other hand, we can find a young CB who has the potential to become a great CB. He wouldn't mind being a backup who plays pretty good minutes since Nesta won't be here forever.

Robinho going to Santos on loan..... I still think this guy could be one of the top 5 players in the world on his day.... a move to Milan would be great for him and us.

NO mate, Robinho is like Berba, they have all the talents in the world with no heart and desire to work hard. It is actually really shameful as I am sure a lot of players would love to even have half of their talents.

Surely Liverpool will miss next season's UCL, that means it big guns (not many though) could leave to play UCL game. Okay Torres would cost a lot, but has anyone here seen their new Argentine lefrback, Insua? I think he is a special talent. I won't mind him in AC Milan. Switch Antonini to RB and Insua the LB

if you get robino then you have to pay his 150K a week wages, he is not worth more than 40k a week.

lets give the hunter + 30m to liverpool for torres :p

why not agger? we need a DC, liverpool need the money (assume we have the money) then it is a good deal...

he'll not cost as much as vidic, but still...

everyone can say what they want but we are a joke in the market. Our MGT has no intention none whatsoever of investing in anyone , there is not a chance in hell that they will spend money the sold kaka and gourcuff for 80 million euro and spent not a cent of it Hunter was included in that deal im sure and if he wasn't well its a few mil a year.

It pi$$es me off so much how can there not be a cent to spend , and its not as if we don't need new signings. Rino , Pirlo , Seedorf , Ambro , Kaladze , Oddo , Dida ,Zambro , Pippo ,Janku ,Favalli all need replacing Ambro and Seedorf + Pirlo too need replacements even though they can still play now are we going to have to watch them play until they are 40.

And Onyewu , Bonera , Abate ,Borriello are not exactly top quality world class players if they were all sold they probably wouldn't fetch 25 million , they all well Abate and Borriello try so hard and never stop working but they are hardly even close to Cafu or Sheva.

Sheva , Kaka , Cafu , Maldini you cannot lose players like that and replace them with Huntelaar ,Oliveira Silva does look great and Pato is awesome but how long will they be around for if huge offer's come in im sure they will be sold.

Pato isn't Kaka he isn't a goody goody kinda guy he will do what is best for him and rightly so. But does anybody think we are going to get the 11 players we need in the next 2 years I don't and Im not talking about a new starting lineup just the old guy's mentioned above Abate , Borriello , and Bonera would be great backup and Nesta and Dinho are not getting any younger.

I wonder what MGT will do because it looks as if the club will have to close down in 3 or 4 years because we will not have enough player's to register a squad well I suppose all the youth team can play . But making money is all that Berlu cares about now and you have to spend money to make money. If he is too busy running a country which he should be then sel please sell sell sell.

I hope berlusconi sells the club instead of destroying it.

I like Agger, but, if I were to spend big on a CB, I don't think I'd go for anyone from England. Maybe Vidic, but, that's a big maybe.

In terms of Bonera, yes, he's not world-class. Do you think that Materazzi or Cordoba are? Cordoba, like Revolver said, used to be a top-class CB, but, for various reasons, he isn't now. Bonera, however, if fit, would have been a better option that Favalli. I don't think Favalli is a bad player, I don't think he even played badly against Inter (individually) but because of his style of play, it put more pressure on an inexperienced Abate and frankly, no one can replace Nesta.

When I think about it, if Nesta was playing instead of Thiago Silva, we might have had a better chance.

Regardless, it seems fairly obvious that Milan's emphasis is changing. We are not spending big on players because Berlu's company is in deep ****, and for whatever other reasons. The difference between Abate and Borriello's performances for Milan is that Abate is playing out of position, and he's never been intended to be Cafu, he's doing this job out of necessity. Borriello, on the other hand, is a very good striker, but he's not a great one.

I also think that looking at the way Sheva and Kaka have played since they have left, I don't see how it would have been to our advantage to keep 90+ million from them and watch them play like they have for Chelsea or Real. Furthermore, Milan's transfer strategy is changing, and I remember reading one of the youth directors of Milan saying that in two or so years, Milan expects that 5 or 6 of its starters are coming out of Milan's youth setup.

What does that mean? That means we're adapting the Barca model, and I'm sure Milan's form under Leonardo could do something to release some money, not much, but some money for Leonardo to work with. Look at the amount of players that Barca has from their youth setup:

Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Bojan, Pedro, Sergio Busquets, Victor Valdez, Gerard Pique, and Puyol. Of Barca's starting XI, 7 are from their youth setup. Meaning they spent very little, if anything, on these players. Sure, there are many of the youth players that didn't become Barca legends, but, I think you can see that Milan is shifting its policies.

It seems like we have begun snatching up talents from Italy, Verdi, Zigoni, and others have shown tremendous promise. Adiyiah was the winner of the Golden Ball in the U20 World Cup, and he plays for us. Sure, there is no guarentee that he'll become a Messi, but, it doesn't hurt to grab that sort of player.

If you ask me, the replacements for our core of defensive midfielders of Gattuso and Ambro are Flamini and Abate. Abate for me is an unpolished gem, he is far more technical than he is given credit for, works very hard, and is willing to sacrifice for the team. Flamini needs to learn to cool his head, and he's unlucky that he got that shoulder injury when it seemed he was finally going to break through with some playing time.

Milan also has Paloschi and Astori, and I don't see why they can't return to help bolster our squad? Dida looks like he's on his way out, or maybe a one year extension, but, I doubt much more than that.

If you ask me, if Milan can continue to grab young talent and make ourselves in the Barca mold, I won't mind. Antonini has actually won me over, and I don't see why he shouldn't be starter for Milan, he did well against Maicon, he might be smaller, but there were many times where his pace and timing overcame that. Antonini is no Maldini, but, face it, Maldini is arguably the greatest defender who ever lived.

If next year we keep our good players, getting rid of Janku, Kaladze, Favalli, Oddo, Gattuso (?), Dida, Storari, Huntelaar, and Inzaghi. But then we bring in a new RB, Astori, Paloschi, Dzeko, and Marcus Diniz. It seems clear that Leonardo looks at the youth players, and it seems that Verdi, De Vito, Zigoni, Adiyiah, Hottor, and others will be getting their chances.

------------------Abbiati/Dida ?
RB/Zam--Nesta/Bonera--Thiago/Astori---Antonini/Zam
----Abate/Flamini---Pirlo/Seedorf---Ambro/youth player
--Pato/Adiyiah-----Borriello/Dzeko----Ronaldinho

Replacing Pirlo and Seedorf will be toughest parts, because they are such unique players. Cigarini hasn't played like he can, and if you ask me, the player I'd like to see at Milan to take over Pirlo's spot is Montolivo, who's starting to play like we thought he could. But, I don't think Montolivo is going anywhere, unless Fiorentina miss out on the CL, but that is just a dream.

However, I think instead of talking about the sky falling, I think we need to look at where we were a few months ago. We were about to a "fallen giant" and those who want to continue seeing things that way will just say that this is "the last hurrah" well, I'm tired of hearing that. Our last hurrah was supposed to be 2007, but, clearly, Milan is a team that continues on. Things aren't perfect, but, I'm not going to let a severely injury hit Milan losing to Inter as proof that we are finished, when we have been in the form that has seen Milan go from fallen giant to scudetto challengers.

We lost to Palermo, and people wrote that MILAN IS FINISHED, OMG! Well, clearly that was naive. Milan is in transition, yes, it is late, but its happening, and it seems that in Leonardo we have the sort of manager that truly has the talent to return Milan to glory. Frankly, I'm quite optimistic for the future of this club, but the biggest problem Milan has had is not that we've sold Sheva or Kaka. No, our biggest problem is that we have not had a reliable striker, and I said this in the Inter thread, but, looking through the Serie A seasons, there is something that is very clear: we need a striker.

The last time a Milan player scored at least 20 goals was in 2003-04, it was Sheva, and it was the year that we won the scudetto. The last scudetto win before that was in 1998-99 with Bierhoff getting 18 goals. If you think that Kaka's sale was the problem, you're wrong, it's the fact that we have been searching for someone to score goals.

I'm hopeful that Borriello can fulfill that role. So far, he seems to be a good, but not great striker. He's a hard worker, and can score spectacular goals. He does have a big-game problem, but hey, so did Zlatan, so then what's the problem? Zlatan was able to do something with the ball, and could actually head the ball. Borriello can't do those things.

Perhaps Pato will rise? I hope so. I think he's far better as an out-and-out striker, but the 4-3-3 system seems to work for him. Regardless, I think when we sit down, and look at what Milan is doing, it seems like these are the growing pains, and it just sucks to have to lose to Inter. However, I'm also pretty confident that with Leonardo we have a manager who will put Milan in the best position to win now and in the future.

Originally Posted by Samaldinho

I like Agger, but, if I were to spend big on a CB, I don't think I'd go for anyone from England. Maybe Vidic, but, that's a big maybe.

Agger would be the perfect CB for our system. He's tall 1.88, extremely skilled on the ball, and not to mention he's very intellegent which would work very well with our high defensive line. Still I don't think we should get him, he is WAY to injury prone, that is, the same level as Nesta when it comes to being injury prone. He's missed most of this season for Liverpool, he missed alot of last season aswell and the season before that.

Originally Posted by Samaldinho

I'm hopeful that Borriello can fulfill that role. So far, he seems to be a good, but not great striker. He's a hard worker, and can score spectacular goals. He does have a big-game problem, but hey, so did Zlatan, so then what's the problem? Zlatan was able to do something with the ball, and could actually head the ball. Borriello can't do those things.

I don't really think that Borriello has big game problems. He's scored a couple of times against Merda in his career you know. I actually think he is a bit like Zlatan in terms of style. He's strong, but still not particularly slow. He's decent with his head (Zlatan isn't really amazing with his head, like say Bierhoff was), obviously a bit smaller. He has incredible technique like Zlatan, his biggest problem is probably that he's not half as creative as Zlatan. Still not to bad I think.