All posts re: the Italian Football Scandal (Moggipoli)

Originally Posted by Kui

Well I'll respond by saying I hope you never enter in a court of law as a jury member. God forbid you be a bigot and some guy of color should have to plead his case before you. You've already shown your indifference of impartiality regarding Juve.

not sure how your response relates in any way to what I said. Just don't follow you logic, honestly, do you?
And mind you, AGAIN, the court of law is exactly the place where PROOF is KING and not TRUTH. You seem to forget - no one is gulty till proven otherwise, and that's not something I came up with or live by, it's what the maxima of a court of law is. Judges judge on evidence not on suspicions, like it or not, that's the way it is and frankly, is there a way to make it better, and how?

Originally Posted by zlatanov

You asking me to prove the non-existance of something that might exist but may very well NOT exist at all. If it that makes sense to you, then congrats cause few people here would fathom it. And since I don't know how to prove the non-existence of something that might not exist in the first place, I would like to ask you to prove that God exists, or to make matter more equivallent, prove me that God doesn't exist.
When you done with the proof, let me know so that I can use your approach to the case in question.

The reason I'm saying this Zlat is that the investigation is still going on. No jury as laid the burden of guilt against Juve. That has unfortunately been done by people like you. Furthermore while the investigation is still going on, consider the possibilty that more evidence be out there. It can do many things. It could lead to us being heavily involved Zlat. It could even exonerate us and parhaps Juve. I dont know. Neither do you. Let the investigation continue Zlat as you said you would earlier. I come to think that you are in a fog when you've already laid judgment of guilt towards Juve.

Originally Posted by zlatanov

not sure how your response relates in any way to what I said. Just don't follow you logic, honestly, do you?
And mind you, AGAIN, the court of law is exactly the place where PROOF is KING and not TRUTH. You seem to forget - no one is gulty till proven otherwise, and that's not something I came up with or live by, it's what the maxima of a court of law is. Judges judge on evidence not on suspicions, like it or not, that's the way it is and frankly, is there a way to make it better, and how?

This hasnt gone to court yet Zlat. You seem to have forgot that small piece of fact. Thought I let you know that little piece with you being so big on logic Zlat.

anytime Zlat

Jeapordy tune.....

30 seconds....

Originally Posted by Kui

You've already shown your indifference of impartiality regarding Juve.

We could speak of "indifference of impartiality regarding Juve" before those calls bacame known to us, after that, it's like talking in defence of a killer who was caught on tape planning and discussing/confessing the murder but only because such tape evidence is inadmissable in a court of law, the killer walks free as their no acceptable proof of his guilt. Am I supposed to show "indifference of impartiality" to that killer, just because my cousin might also turn out to be a suspect in a similar case?
And I will show the same indifference of impartiality regarding Milan, once phone taps of Galliani and Pairetto, or something equally incriminating and suspicious comes out. Until then, I just don't see how the two sides could be put on the same table - it's like suspecting that cousin of mine of commiting murder just because he had a knife in his pocket, albeit no body at all.

Originally Posted by Kui

This hasnt gone to court yet Zlat. You seem to have forgot that small piece of fact. Thought I let you know that little piece with you being so big on logic Zlat.

I am referring to courts and such only because you did, although I am still in the dark how you put me in that picture altogether.
Not saying it's gone to court or it will ever go. Just trying to show you the difference between TRUTH, PROOF and what we, the common falks could consider something as "being enough of proof for us", something that may never make it to GULTY into court because of certain technicalities or bribes (let's not forget that Juve's future is at stake here and the Agnielli family will hardly just stay aside and wacth their baby being relegated to Serie B) ... I think it was kind of obvious from the beginning, anyway.

Originally Posted by zlatanov

We could speak of "indifference of impartiality regarding Juve" before those calls bacame known to us, after that, it's like talking in defence of a killer who was caught on tape planning and discussing/confessing the murder but only because such tape evidence is inadmissable in a court of law, the killer walks free as their no acceptable proof of his guilt. Am I supposed to show "indifference of impartiality" to that killer, just because my cousin might also turn out to be a suspect in a similar case?

I wouldnt hold that against you. Again wait til the investigation is over. That is just on small piece to a bigger picture. I dont hold you hating Juve against you. What I do hope is that we get to the bottom of this all so that it never happens again. Not to us and although I hate a lot of other clubs, I hope something like this never happens to them either.

Originally Posted by Zlatanov

And I will show the same indifference of impartiality regarding Milan, once phone taps of Galliani and Pairetto, or something equally incriminating and suspicious comes out. Until then, I just don't see how the two sides could be put on the same table - it's like suspecting that cousin of mine of commiting murder just because he had a knife in his pocket, albeit no body at all.

Again that's because the investigation isnt over Zlat. If we want this to be cleaned up we do need to make sure our house is clean. I would hope you agree to this. That way peace meal... we then can go on and enjoy number 18 come Sunday.

Originally Posted by zlatanov

I am referring to courts and such only because you did, although I am still in the dark how you put me in that picture altogether.
Not saying it's gone to court or it will ever go. Just trying to show you the difference between TRUTH, PROOF and what we, the common falks could consider something as "being enough of proof for us", something that may never make it to GULTY into court because of certain technicalities or bribes (let's not forget that Juve's future is at stake here and the Agnielli family will hardly just stay aside and wacth their baby being relegated to Serie B) ... I think it was kind of obvious from the beginning, anyway.

LOL! Peace unto you Zlat. I get your point of PROOF and TRUTH. I never disagreed with it actually. We all have our versions of it no doubt. LOL! What I'm laughing at is how everything is conspired in your opinion. LOL! Kinda paranoid dont ya think?? LOL!

My mouth is watering Zlat... finsh your posts. They're very yummy. RAW.... that's how I like it.

Originally Posted by Kui

I wouldnt hold that against you. Again wait til the investigation is over. That is just on small piece to a bigger picture. I dont hold you hating Juve against you. What I do hope is that we get to the bottom of this all so that it never happens again. Not to us and although I hate a lot of other clubs, I hope something like this never happens to them either.
Again that's because the investigation isnt over Zlat. If we want this to be cleaned up we do need to make sure our house is clean. I would hope you agree to this. That way peace meal... we then can go on and enjoy number 18 come Sunday.

problem is, I don't think it will ever make it to court. maybe, juve will be repremanded and moggi and Giraudo will take the fall ... and a phat check in return too ... remeber that drug case of 1-2 years ago, the conclusion of the court was that the doctor acted on his own and stuffed the Zidans and Dell Pieros with "bonbons". How does a logical person even try to believe some BS like that is beyond me. In the end, Juve got out clean, the doctor took the fall, his career may be over but believe you me if you could get a look at his bank acount after tha case was closed, your head would still be spinning from all the 1s and 0s in it.
Now it would be something similar - Moggi and Giraudo would take the blame, they will be well paid for that too - and Juve and the Agniellis will walk out of it dry as laundry in the summer. Of course they will be advised to be more carefull about who they entrust the club to, and who knows in the end they might even win the sympathy of the Italian folk as the real victims in this case, victims in the hands of vicious warewolfs like Moggi and Giraudo, who took advantage to Italian version of the kennedy clan over here in America.
Techically, Juve could end up losing titles and going to Serie B for a long, long time if things are really dug deep, I mean deep. Will this make certain Milan shady business ventures come to the surface, well if it does, then as Hassan put, we should get what we deserve. But until the body is found, I cannot feel sorry for Juve just because I caught Milan with a knife in the pants.

Originally Posted by Kui

LOL! Peace unto you Zlat. I get your point of PROOF and TRUTH. I never disagreed with it actually. We all have our versions of it no doubt. LOL! What I'm laughing at is how everything is conspired in your opinion. LOL! Kinda paranoid dont ya think?? LOL!

I wish it was buddy, I wish it was just my paranoia but then I say to myslef, if it was just me being paranoid, then we won't be reading a million pages of tapped calls and Juve's board of directors won't be resingng - a decision, which cost them 10% of Juve's stock market value (at least that's what I remember reading), and that's a hell of a price, my friend, a hell of a price for a case of simple paranoia.
Peace and sorry if I got too hot in my posts above

Originally Posted by zlatanov

problem is, I don't think it will ever make it to court. maybe, juve will be repremanded and moggi and Giraudo will take the fall ... and a phat check in return too ... remeber that drug case of 1-2 years ago, the conclusion of the court was that the doctor acted on his own and stuffed the Zidans and Dell Pieros with "bonbons". How does a logical person even try to believe some BS like that is beyond me. In the end, Juve got out clean, the doctor took the fall, his career may be over but believe you me if you could get a look at his bank acount after tha case was closed, your head would still be spinning from all the 1s and 0s in it.
Now it would be something similar - Moggi and Giraudo would take the blame, they will be well paid for that too - and Juve and the Agniellis will walk out of it dry as laundry in the summer. Of course they will be advised to be more carefull about who they entrust the club to, and who knows in the end they might even win the sympathy of the Italian folk as the real victims in this case, victims in the hands of vicious warewolfs like Moggi and Giraudo, who took advantage to Italian version of the kennedy clan over here in America.
Techically, Juve could end up losing titles and going to Serie B for a long, long time if things are really dug deep, I mean deep. Will this make certain Milan shady business ventures come to the surface, well if it does, then as Hassan put, we should get what we deserve. But until the body is found, I cannot feel sorry for Juve just because I caught Milan with a knife in the pants.

Agreed. Agreed and agreed. I never wanted you to feel sorry for Juve. Hell no. What I was always worried about is that we have even the appearance of impropriety. Like you I hope we come out squeeky clean. It's a 50-50 bet though for me and frankly I wouldnt care to put my money either way. Obviously there has been people butt screwing each other with zeal in Calcio Italia. I guess Juve's been the "top". I would hope we didnt consent at being the "bottom" if you can understand the undertone.

Phew....reading these last two pages was like listening to my wife and mother-in-law argue...thankfully its over now...or is it? Looks like you guys have kissed and made up.

Fine with me.

Now, Milan have entered the frame, and in truth, though I am a little concerned with this, but add the whole Sheva to London issue, and I am at the point where I cant eat breakfast.

I will declare, as Hassan has done, that if we are guilty, then we should face any and all the conseqenses (sp?) thereof.

But if we are guilty, what does that make Juve? Super Guilty? I mean, as Zlat has gone to pains to elucidate, we have a very poor record for a team that has been purportedly cheating...while Juve on the other hand...well, lets just say that their win column, and the manner of those wins, to me, seems just a little improper..dont yah think?

If we could get relegated because our players gambled on a match, and the then president payed hush money to cover it up, then on what grounds (with the new Buffon gambling revalations) do Juve remain in the Serie A?

I think overall, if they are relegated, then this means a whole world of exposure for Serie B...a lot of television coverage, and intrest in the Italian second division...not a bad thing eh?