Gattuso.........

Does milan need a Roy Keane type figure like Gattuso to succeed Maldini as captain, given that most of players are of the older age bracket ? Personally, I would prefer Kaka to be the next captain of milan !

Originally Posted by Southernsun

are you serious? its ok to defend him. i love him also........but he does comitt many fouls.

I never said he doesn't commit many fouls, I said he doesn't normally get many cards and doesn't normally make senseless fouls, just tactical ones.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't think Rino had a particularly bad game against Chelsea if you take away the red card, which btw was not a red card foul and at most a yellow (the referee in the match was terrible in general). In fact, I especially remember one time in our box Rino made a last ditch effort to stop Joe Cole scoring and saved us from going 2-0 down.

I really don't see why we need a more attacking and technical player for gattuso, as with Seedorf, Pirlo and Kaka, we have a more attack minded midfield than most sides.

Originally Posted by vickirin

Dont make me laugh so now our elite defensive midfielders are weaker than those from Real Madrid ? What is wrong with you ? or the unproven pair from Arsenal those losers from Inter wouldnt even sit on the bench of our team.

vickirin, nothing is wrong with me, nothing at all, I have an opinion, and I expressed it. You obviously differ from me in this, so feel free to differ. I for one wont lose any sleep over it.

So now we could have a better set of DM's with kleberson pablo garcia and flamini?Yeah lets get rid of Rino Max and Andrea with that array of talent we will rule the world.

I never said that, but if you feel the need to twist my words, take things out of context to prove your point, again, feel free.

Diarra oh my god he is soo unproven you cant compare him with the kind of champions we have here.

Sorry vickirin, didnt know that I couldnt compare him...how foolish of me! Please send me a list of the rules, indicating what I can and cannot do on these forums...sheesh now everyone´s a moderator!

If you would only mention Juve I would say mmm it's a matter of tastes .I prefer Milan midfielders but i can see your point. But if you say that those players(kleberson, diogo , diarra etc) are better than our players i can only be confused.

mmm yes, sure is a matter of taste, and this tastes like chicken. Obviously you are easily confused...never mind, happens to the best of us...and the worst.

You can call me crazy but I think that Andrea Rino and Ambro are the best trio of Defensive Midfielders in the world.

Thanks, I think I will call you crazy...and you must be, for considering those two as best in the world...again, I have left out Pirlo, who I do concur, is world class.

Ambrosini cant make the Italian national team, and Rino doesnt always start..so if we dont have the best Italians playing defensive midfield, then how can we consider ourselves as having the best DMs in Italy, let alone the world?

IMO, which apparently doesnt count here...we dont have true world class players in this position, and until we realise this, and/or buy better players, or compromise by changing tactics/formation/strategy or both, we will never comfortably dominate games against quality opposition.

Notice you didnt write about Barca´s midfield...too good..or did you just forget? I know that crazy people tend to be forgetgfull...so let me ask you...is Xabi and Marquez better than Rino and Ambro? No, how stupid of me, no one is better than our "two champions" ...

Do me this favour though vickirin...watch the next Milan game, and tell me how many missed passes Gattuso is responsible for...then watch a Chelsea game, and tell me how many missed passes Makelele makes, or to get closer to your analysis...watch Madrid play, and tell me how many times Graveson makes a bad pass...then we can "talk" again...

Milan's hard-working midfield of Seedorf-Pirlo-Gattuso is among the strongest on earth. Like the calcio/Danish legend and expert on Italian football Preben Elkjær has pointed out dozens of times on Danish TV: the fact that you won't find a midfield that runs more metres during a game than that of Milan combined with the flair and technical ability means that Milan can and does dominate nearly all matches.

Gattuso is among the most valuable players in Serie A. It's a shame that there're so many dumb-asses who're incapable of acknowledging his importance. Oh well, it's always been that way :-)

Its always amazing to read how people here refer to those who differ in opinion from them...well this dumb ass, doesnt agree with you Laudrup...and if I call you a "name" would it make me feel better? Or you worse? Actually, it doesnt even matter.

Let me point out here, that my concern is not with Pirlo nor Seedorf, who are world class players in their own right, but with Gattuso, and Max.

I really shouldnt even bother to reply to someone who considers me a dumb-ass, because I have a different view point, but I feel obligated to do so. (Must be my dumb-assedness coming out again)

So Laudrup, while I refuse to stoop to your level, and call you names, let me ask you this...the fact that your hero, Preben Elkjaer thinks that our midfield is so world class, how does he explain the fact that we won NOTHING last season...with such a world class midfield, we shouldnt have lost to Liverpool, nor to Juve in the scudetto chase.

Results, the greatest denominator when an examination of all round class is concerned, begs to differ with your esteemed opinion Laudrup, and so do I...but then again, I (along with the results) must be dumb asses, so we dont count...

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

Results, the greatest denominator when an examination of all round class is concerned, begs to differ with your esteemed opinion Laudrup, and so do I...but then again, I (along with the results) must be dumb asses, so we dont count...

Coppa Italia, Champions League, European Super Cup, Serie A, Italian Super Cup. That isn't enough to you? Jeez ....

As you'll know my friend, to be victorious in competitions such as CL or Serie A isn't a guarantee, far from it, it's a luxury. And Ringhio as a player has won it all with Milan and has been close to it more than once and as a guaranteed first team starter.

Btw. don't be such a drama queen. We're all dumb-asses from time to time, no?

Parley My friends!
No Warro isnt a dumb @ss. Nor was he denying the contribution gattuso has given to Milan. Likewise if such case is true, then Laudrup's comment wasnt directed at you Warro.

I hope I succesfully negotiated a truce???

I feel a need to point out that, despite the fact that the two of us often disagree on certain matters, I respect Warro as a very passionate and intelligent lad.

Still a dumb-ass, though

Originally Posted by Laudrup

I feel a need to point out that, despite the fact that the two of us often disagree on certain matters, I respect Warro as a very passionate and intelligent lad.

Still a dumb-ass, though

yeah, well my dumb-ass is bigger than yours!!

Originally Posted by Laudrup

Coppa Italia, Champions League, European Super Cup, Serie A, Italian Super Cup. That isn't enough to you? Jeez ....

As you'll know my friend, to be victorious in competitions such as CL or Serie A isn't a guarantee, far from it, it's a luxury. And Ringhio as a player has won it all with Milan and has been close to it more than once and as a guaranteed first team starter.

Btw. don't be such a drama queen. We're all dumb-asses from time to time, no?

No, I am a drama king thank you verrra much!

But back to the debate....Gattuso has helped us immensely, yes, in winning all the abovementioned silverware...but that doesnt change my opinion that we could do better, or at worst, have him come off the bench, when we already have scored a few goals on the opponent..then his disruption of their attacks (And ours) will be desirous for the former, and wont matter, for the latter...

Now I am a poet, and didnt know it...

I always react angrily, thats very childish of me :P

But i still think i can pass the ball better than he can, when i see him shoot i really feel like im gonna throw up.. Gattuso really humuliated us with that tackle he did.. and he was our CAPTAIN! I do love Gattuso really, but truth hurts, Gattuso isn´t Milan quality. He should be sent back to SPL.

Originally Posted by hitmannq8

I always react angrily, thats very childish of me :P

But i still think i can pass the ball better than he can, when i see him shoot i really feel like im gonna throw up.. Gattuso really humuliated us with that tackle he did.. and he was our CAPTAIN! I do love Gattuso really, but truth hurts, Gattuso isn´t Milan quality. He should be sent back to SPL.

humiliated? give him a break man!!

it wasn`t mailcious, it wasn`t a two footed tackle etc... it was a yellow card at most and considering it was friendly was stupid decision as it happend so late in the game.

what gattuso committed is nothing more than the "tactical foul" that we see everyday... gattuso didn`t humiliate anyone if your looking for someone that humilated football then look no further than the referee who sent him off.

It's clear the Gattuso's position must change, he can't be relied upon to be involved heavily in attacks or the build up in play. His job should be to break up the opposition attacks and play it simply to someone else. It can't be any coincedence that nearly every other defensive midfielder plays in the middle but ours plays on the right.

Diarra, Viera, Emerson, Keane, Makalele, Cambiasso, etc, etc ... they all have a central position. Obviously they can drift at times, but more often than not they are in the middle.

Personally i don't believe our midfield works hard enough, it gets swamped and over-run, which in turn puts pressure onto the back 4. Our system either needs new players to refresh everything OR we need changes in position to refresh things. As things stand now, the way our midfield plays isn't likely to help us against the bigger teams in football, people know how to counteract it all too easily now.

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

Of all the major teams in Europe, we have the weakest selection of defensive midfielders....lets look at the top few:

EPL
Chelsea: Makelele and soon to have Essien (Diarra I think his name is, didnt have a bad game vs us at all)

Man Utd: Keane (Kleberson isnt all that bad, he just hasnt adapted to the EPL)

Arsenal: Flamini and Fabregas (two of the best young holding midfielders on the planet)

Calcio Serie A:
Inter : Cambiasso, and Zanetti

Juve: Emerson and Viera

La Liga:
Madrid: Graverson (who is good, but not excellent, but better than Gattuso and Max) and the new duo of Pablo Garcia (who may just be weaker than our duo)and the other guy, who looked good vs the Galaxy...which begs the question as to who wouldnt...

Barca: Marquez (screw the spelling, you know, the Mexican and Motta, or Xabi, again, my spelling fails me, but you know to whom I refer)

and I could go on and on...who do we have? Gattuso...one of the few players to get a red card in a friendly, who completes 3% of his passes in the offensive third, and Ambrosini, who cant seem to buy a game from Carlo...Vogel is really Pirlo´s understudy, so I dont include him in this list..though he could end up getting Gattuso´s game...watch this space....

This is something I have pointed out before, and will continue to do so until I am ed, and or something is done about it.

Thanks Gattuso, for your splendid effort, your relentless tackling, running back to cover...but IMO, you should come into the game when we are leading...we need a ball winner that can actually play in the offensive third...its just that simple...and for us to get to the pinnacle of the game domestically and in Europe, we need better defensive midfielders, and a younger defense...

i think ur over doing it... id understand if u said barcas midfield (who by the way include van bommel as well), chelsea, and juve have a better midfield... but there is no way that arsenal, man utd (especially), real madrid, inter have a better midfield than ours... NO WAY!!! ... i think u drew ur conclusions too fast, ur saying this based on gattuso's performance last year which was crap IMO, but the gattuso of 2 years ago was IMO the 2nd best DM after makelele in the world... he had a bad season, so what??? everyone does... all we have to do is to get our players back to their best and when that is done we are definatly the worlds best midfield... we were known for that werent we?

First let me clarify my position with regard to this issue:

I am saying that our DM, the only real DM in the starting lineup, Gattuso, isnt better than any of the aforementioned players at Barca, Madrid, Arsenal etc....this is not a comparison of midfield for midfield.

Originally Posted by mk18

i think ur over doing it... id understand if u said barcas midfield (who by the way include van bommel as well), chelsea, and juve have a better midfield... but there is no way that arsenal, man utd (especially), real madrid, inter have a better midfield than ours... NO WAY!!! ...

Yes way....Have you seen Flamini or Fabregas play? They tackle (usually without fouling), and pass the ball quite well..they may not be as aggressive as Rino, but they are barely out of their teens, in a year or two, they will be 10 times better...and they currently cover just as much ground as our Gattuso....Man U...well u have me there...maybe I was a little too angry when I made that statement...

Real Madrid? Graveson is waaaay better than Rino...he passes better, beats players easier, and tackles with equal or even greater ferocity than Rino, and doesnt usually give the ball away in the attacking third.

i think u drew ur conclusions too fast, ur saying this based on gattuso's performance last year which was crap IMO,

No sir, I take great care in drawing my conclusions very slowly

but the gattuso of 2 years ago was IMO the 2nd best DM after makelele in the world... he had a bad season, so what??? everyone does... all we have to do is to get our players back to their best and when that is done we are definatly the worlds best midfield... we were known for that werent we?

Gattuso 2 years ago is worse than the Rino of today...he has improved since then IMO, he passes better, gets fewer cards, and only stops maybe 1 in 3 to 4 of our attacking moves with a bad pass. 2 years ago, he was cancelling one in every 2 attacks with a bad pass....God only knows how we managed to compensate for his gaffes.