Andrea Pirlo - Form

I think this past glory hypothesis has a substantial claim, so I'm not going to repeat it here.

Instead, I'll just say why this past glory hypothesis may be false (leaving it to the readers to decide whether my assertion and example is right):

The use of past glory IN THE MEDIA is simply a way to tame fear among individuals and to induce a sense of self-efficacy in the team when the team morale is low. In addition, it is a way to manipulate (whether it backfires, that's another story) media talk.

In other words, it's just media talk. Just like Galliani says, "We are not buying anyone this summer", then they buy Nesta. "We are not going to sell Sheva under circumstance", and we sold him.

It is without doubt that media gains increasing attention in the world, thanks to the improvement in information and communication transfer. The key here is that what you say can even reach the poorest family in the world in China, or the Eskimo in Antarctica, something unprecedented in the past. How you frame it, who you address to... such public relation skill has taken a dramatic turn with the introduction of internet.

Leaving that aside, it's up to individuals to decide whether Galliani really means it when he says, "we won this and this so it's not that bad" to hide the actual reasons, only a few know, for why Milan didn't invest more in the transfer market.

***

Anyway, again as I say it's up to you guys to decide whether Galliani is just talking for the sake of talking, or whether he really believes in it. Another key point to take is that if this past glory hypothesis is true, then Milan shouldn't have been so successful after Berlusconi's initial success in Italy and in Europe: Because they rely on past glory, there is no reason why they would have won 2002/2003. And if Ancelotti had relied on past glory, he would not have lost won the CL in 06/07 (though perhaps, whatever glory was washed away by the Liverpool nightmare; but even if that's the case, it suggests that our nightmare league campaign this yera will again wash away any past glorY).

This to me is the biggest counter-argument to the past glory hypothesis.

J

jeff if you don't repeat the actions of your success, you wont be successful.
A great team is a team who has success as a tradition say like BAYERN
a team with golden era is a team who won in the past and keeps on talking about it

Originally Posted by rt9

Play further up the pitch? At the expense of who? Seedorf? Kaka? R80? Pato? Our formation allows for a maximum of 2 playmakers and a striker. WHo should be benched to make way for Pirlo?

I think Pirlo's greatest attribute is being a playmaker in front of the back 4 and dictating the play linking up defense with midfield and midfield with attack. Problem is we don't need him for every game. Some games, we just need solid DM's to keep a compact midfield and other games we need him as our midfield maestro. But Carlo seems to play him all the time regardless..

Playing further up the pitch doesn't mean we necessarily sacrifice one of the attackers. Currently our shape is...

---Rino--------Pirlo---------Ambro/Flamini---

or even sometimes...

------------Pirlo----------------
-------Rino------Ambro/Flamini--

These roles confine Pirlo's freedom in the Center as he's forced to take responsibility in the defensive third of the field. It means he can't move around the pitch easily and many coaches mark him out of games as he is restricted, yet key to our play.

However, put Pirlo on the line ahead of the DM's and let them come more centrally would give Pirlo more freedom and room to really do his job, and not be pressed or marked out of games. So the shape of the midfield would change to be...

---------Rino---Ambro/Flamini----------
--------------Pirlo---------------------

Against Cagliari Pirlo was given similar extra freedom and we saw he was far more effective in this role than he was before. As a playmaker he needs room to create without being suffocated. Same goes for Kaka, who suffers greatly when Dinho plays as his usual freedom is restricted down the left of the pitch.

Honestly, its amazing in itself that we've been able to win with Rino and Ambro on the sides of Pirlo. Them 2 cannot pass or receive passes or keep the play going to save their lives.

Beckham is a start in the right direction having midfielder who is tireless, has offensive ability, and can defend decently because of his tireless work. I'd really love to have Abate play on the right of Pirlo. The kid is speedy and can really spread the field, which could do wonders for our offense. Then you can get the dual threat of having Zambro on the left or play him on the right n have an attacking tandem down the right flank between him and Abate.

Less defensive minded players
More offense
More youth and energy

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

However, put Pirlo on the line ahead of the DM's and let them come more centrally would give Pirlo more freedom and room to really do his job, and not be pressed or marked out of games. So the shape of the midfield would change to be...

---------Rino---Ambro/Flamini----------
--------------Pirlo---------------------

Against Cagliari Pirlo was given similar extra freedom and we saw he was far more effective in this role than he was before. As a playmaker he needs room to create without being suffocated. Same goes for Kaka, who suffers greatly when Dinho plays as his usual freedom is restricted down the left of the pitch.

If we actually adopt this system, Pirlo will be able to roam the midfield up to the attack and our link up play would improve.
But Dev, my question is that would this formation hinder Kaka's game? Because Pirlo, if successful, will play with more freedom and since he can dribble and run with the ball at times, how would this affect Kaka? I am actually uncertain so if anyone could pour some light into it..

Also, against Cagliari, neither Kaka nor R80 played. When they return, this will be a completely different ball game.

to answer your question, boring, I think Pirlo is not goign to roam to the front all the time; Kaka`, on the other hand, is fast, furious, and attack-minded. i don't see them having overlapped a lot honestly.

I honestly see R80 and Kaka` as alternative to each other. At the moment, it seems very difficulgt for them to co-survive (in the long run).

Originally Posted by boring

If we actually adopt this system, Pirlo will be able to roam the midfield up to the attack and our link up play would improve.
But Dev, my question is that would this formation hinder Kaka's game? Because Pirlo, if successful, will play with more freedom and since he can dribble and run with the ball at times, how would this affect Kaka? I am actually uncertain so if anyone could pour some light into it..

Also, against Cagliari, neither Kaka nor R80 played. When they return, this will be a completely different ball game.

I'd think Kaka's game would benefit from Pirlo being closer to him than he is already.

We play in lines on the pitch. Currently, our most balanced line (with Pirlo) has been...

--Beckham----Pirlo----Ambro----- (bear in mind this was Carlo's selection)
----------Seedorf---------------
------------------Kaka----------
-------------Pato---------------

Essentially, Pirlo's position is two lines behind Kaka and so neither really get the chance to affect each others game directly. I'm saying Pirlo essentially moves up to the line Seedorf (right now I imagine Gourcuff is a strong contender for that role in the future) currently occupies. With two players there having the freedom to roam and move we would essentially be playing with two playmakers. Whilst you can distinctly identify an extra line on the pitch, such as...

------Rino-----Flamini-------
----------Pirlo--------------
----Gourcuff----------------
----------------Kaka--------
----------Pato--------------

...the line between Gourcuff and Pirlo would be difficult to identify on the pitch as they'd have freedom to move. Essentially, Pirlo would remain central to our system while Gourcuff would support Kaka as they both often go wide naturally to look to create. Kaka will therefore not get as isolated as he often does in our system as both Pirlo and Gourcuff would be further up to support him, rather than just Seedorf which is what currently occurs. We would also be forced to play a slightly more high pressing game with a tighter group as the side would naturally move up the pitch with the extra man going forward.

Not sure if that's a clear explanation of my thoughts, but hopefully you get the gist of it.

In the next 10 games watch Pirlo's movement AFTER he passes the ball and you'll realise why right now he can go and play for torino.

Unless he decides to run he doesnt have to play for us anymore as far as Im concerned.

Again, do not watch only passes, watch his move without the ball, its ridiculous. And not in the next game, our players will be sharp as they need to win. In a longer period it will be visible that Pirlo does not move almost at all. He moved better 3,4 years ago.

Mrki you are right. He does pass the ball, and then instead of moving up and supporting the play he jogs lightly and stays right in the middle. However, this may be because of two reasons.
#1: Carlo is telling Pirlo to stay centrally and keep the shape therefore really limiting his movement around the pitch. This is the topic that people have been talking about here, mentioning that Pirlo is suffocated in the middle and doesn't have the freedom to move up the field essentially getting into more attacking positions.
#2: Pirlo has just totally lost it and is very lazy.

It's anyone's guess what option people would choose. As a matter of fact, it might even be a combination of both scenarios.

My personal oppinion is #1 because I've seen signs that Pirlo isn't lazy and useless just yet. He actually does cover players in the middle of the park and runs. It's true that he fails to pick up runs sometimes (ex. Inter and Werder goals), but I wouldn't call him lazy and past it just yet. Another reason of why I choose #1 is also because in the few times that Carlo has put Pirlo further up the field (after we are down of course), Pirlo started doing exactly what you are talking about. He would pass and move to support the play. Now, is that because of his own urgency and will to do better and win the game....or is that because of the bigger freedom he is given by Carlo. I've read your frustration about him however a few times and I understand why you have that oppinion because you can easily go both ways.



In any case, I still don't understand what Pirlo offers with standing 5 meters from our CBs throughout the game. That worked great 3/4 years ago but as time has went on, this has worked less and less......and at times it's even gotten to the point where Pirlo has been totally useless by standing 50/60 meters from the opponents goal all the time. Of course, this can be a result of a number of changes mainly because of the christmas tree and less targets up front (ex. only 1 ST, less mobile full backs....)

1- Carlo needs to give the man the freedom to move up and be a lot closer to the STs and AMs, or just bench him.
2- Subsequently, if Carlo has already given Pirlo the freedom of moving around the field .....and Pirlo is obviously not doing that......THEN it is clear that he has no place on this team anymore.

I don't think #2 has happened yet, and that is one of the reasons I still have faith in Pirlo.

saying that Pirlo got lazy is just wrong

mrki, I suggest looking at the distances Pirlo has been running for the side through the years as if I remember correctly, he's quite high up the list of those who runs the most in our side. This was shown in CL where they calculate the distances a player runs through a match.

I'm certain Pirlo's problem isn't laziness.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

Playing further up the pitch doesn't mean we necessarily sacrifice one of the attackers. Currently our shape is...

---Rino--------Pirlo---------Ambro/Flamini---

or even sometimes...

------------Pirlo----------------
-------Rino------Ambro/Flamini--

These roles confine Pirlo's freedom in the Center as he's forced to take responsibility in the defensive third of the field. It means he can't move around the pitch easily and many coaches mark him out of games as he is restricted, yet key to our play.

However, put Pirlo on the line ahead of the DM's and let them come more centrally would give Pirlo more freedom and room to really do his job, and not be pressed or marked out of games. So the shape of the midfield would change to be...

---------Rino---Ambro/Flamini----------
--------------Pirlo---------------------

Against Cagliari Pirlo was given similar extra freedom and we saw he was far more effective in this role than he was before. As a playmaker he needs room to create without being suffocated. Same goes for Kaka, who suffers greatly when Dinho plays as his usual freedom is restricted down the left of the pitch.

Yup, I hear you Dev, but with only 2 men in central midfield, we will be torn apart on the counter attack. All opposition teams would have to do would be to launch a long ball over the midfield and any speedy attacker or winger will get throught straight to the defense. And don't forget, alot of teams play with 4 solid midfielders, with 2 out and out DM's and a roaming Pirlo, we will die against such teams.

I am more in favor of Pirlo in his traditional holding role, anchoring the midfield, and the defense, but in some games I would prefer to play a solid 3 man midfield or even a solid 4-4--2 with 4 midfielders and some natural wingers to add some depth. Some tactical variablility would be nice considering how big our squad is.

mmmm you guys can talk as much tactics as you want.....truth is it aint happening any time soon unfortunately....all we can do is just curse carlo

Originally Posted by rt9

Yup, I hear you Dev, but with only 2 men in central midfield, we will be torn apart on the counter attack. All opposition teams would have to do would be to launch a long ball over the midfield and any speedy attacker or winger will get throught straight to the defense. And don't forget, alot of teams play with 4 solid midfielders, with 2 out and out DM's and a roaming Pirlo, we will die against such teams.

I am more in favor of Pirlo in his traditional holding role, anchoring the midfield, and the defense, but in some games I would prefer to play a solid 3 man midfield or even a solid 4-4--2 with 4 midfielders and some natural wingers to add some depth. Some tactical variablility would be nice considering how big our squad is.

Rino and Flamini is more than enough to cover on the counter attack...it's not like Pirlo won't help at all. Also if we have a PROPER DEFENSE, Rino and Flamini can lock down any counter attack easily. I just hope we can get a proper attacking game going because ever we started playing that 2 DM thing, our attacking game has diminished considerably. We're no longer a threat to teams to the point where they have to adapt their tactics to defend against us. Now it's just man mark Pirlo and Kaka and game, set, match. Until Pato came onto the scene of course..

Don't want to dwell too much on tactics, but couldnt resist

If we play Pirlo further up, we are going to have 3 AM's: Kaka, Pirlo, Ronaldinho/Seedorf, and 2 DM's behind them. If any team plays a good counter attacking game with speed and direct balls to empty spaces (there will be plenty given our wing back's propensity to push forwards), there is no way in the world that Pirlo and any of our other AM's can make it back on time---we will be slaughtered against fast counterattacking teams. The reason Pirlo is in front of the back four and in between the 2 DM's is to add additional defensive cover, as he is essentially covering space and tracking to help our DM's or wing backs in the defensive phase.