Banter 2009/2010

From TMW: we offered 5M + Jordan Pedrocchi (Primavera) to Bari for Bonucci.

I don't think that offer comes close to the 15 mil offered by Inter. It speaks volumes when we even low ball talented young players now to try and reduce transfer fees.

Originally Posted by slifersd

I don't think that offer comes close to the 15 mil offered by Inter. It speaks volumes when we even low ball talented young players now to try and reduce transfer fees.

They didn't mention any offer of Inter and added that Juventus could follow on the same kind of amount ...

The guy said he was an Interista but he's not stupid, he also said each time that his dream is to play for one of the big clubs of Italy, Juventus, Inter or Milan ...

Originally Posted by GeoTav

From TMW: we offered 5M + Jordan Pedrocchi (Primavera) to Bari for Bonucci.

Good news.

He is tall (190), could play CB and FB. At least, he could be another Bonera

Inter has signed him and inserted him like goods to get Millito and Motta, I do not think he really wants to come back.

Inter seems to like Ranocchia, he is taller (195), one year younger and play better? but I think we need a versatile defender like Bonucci.

Bonucci - Nesta - Silva - Antonini: lets that be our backline next season. A target man is the most seriously needed. Second: an energetic midfielder who can cross.

Dinho solved our crossing problem on left flank, if ACM or RCM can cross, we do not really need attacking fullback. Flamini should learn how to cross now.

Maybe a true winger is better, but we should keep Pato, right? And the SC job maybe difficult for him now.

Talking about center forward, I've just remembered an old player, who could suit our strategy the best.

His name is Gilardinho.

You would ask me: Why didn't he success with Milan?

Because our old strategy did not suit him. Carlo admited that, his formation of the CL 2007 final suited Pippo more than Gila.

Back then, Carlo used 4-3-2-1 or 4-3-1-2

4-3-2-1 with Kaka as RAM and Seedorf/Rui as LAM required great agility and quick thinking of the forward, the qualities only Sheva and Pippo possess. He must react quickly to the short ball (one-two) of two AMs to link up attack movements, and to take through balls of Kaka/Rui and short range crosses of Seedorf, because the 2 AMs will make his space smaller. It is even better when he can hold the ball and pass to other AM.

In 4-3-1-2, there must be at least a link between ACM (Rui/Kaka) and a forward. With this, we would have steady stream midfielders-ACM-FW-other FW. When both forwads have the abilites (quick thinking, quick movement), this formation could be very destructive.

However, there is a problem with 4-3-1-2 when we have 2 hungry forwards: there are not enough ball for them: 1 ACM must supply 2 FWs. We had 2 solutions: 1. One "quick" striker must have broad view and good passing ability to do another job - supporting; 2. Switch to 4-3-2-1, then the "quick" striker will have abundant balls, he just need to finish them.

So the best "quick" forward we ever had was Sheva, he could not only finish, but also help other "quick" forwards like Pippo and Crespo or "normal" ones like Tomasson and Gilardinho.

Without player like Sheva, both formations Carlo love failed to deliver consitently. We won CL 2007 because both AM: Seedorf and Kaka became suddently too strong, the "quick" striker only need to be one match hero: Pippo. Ronaldo was a good option, but we all know the reason why.

Pippo could exchange passes with Kaka at some situations, but that was not his main job, not his strength (he is weak physically, technically and old). Until today, Pato is still struggling to make an assist.

Gila had Sheva as his partner in only one season, he is not "quick" type, too.

In Fiorentina last season, Gila had the supply of Mutu ("quick" one, maybe) and the ACM - Jovetic, so he scored a lot in 4-3-1-2 formation. But when Mutu out, he struggled to score, Fio struggled to win.

However, IMHO, Gila is the most complete center forward of Italia in last 5 years. Luca Toni is only 10 centimeters taller than him.

And our formation this season deeply need a complete center forward, the one who can head, shoot with both legs, and of course, score in given chances.

Except his scissor kick, Borri's finishing does not impress me. Hunter has language problems. Pato can not take the CF position yet.

Back then, Gila had the chance to play (started many matches) but he did not have many chances to score. What I saw were a forward struggling to get a ball, was too alone among the crowd of defenders when we play 1 forward against defensive teams, and had little help in 2 forwards formation (Pippo and Pato, as mentioned above, could not support well). He hardly received a good cross, at that time we did not have Dinho or Beck, had no winger and the full back like Oddo.

This is only a personal thought, a hypothesis. I just feel Gila was so unlucky to join Milan at wrong time.

Originally Posted by Aficio

Talking about center forward, I've just remembered an old player, who could suit our strategy the best.

His name is Gilardinho.

You would ask me: Why didn't he success with Milan?

Because our old strategy did not suit him. Carlo admited that, his formation of the CL 2007 final suited Pippo more than Gila.

Back then, Carlo used 4-3-2-1 or 4-3-1-2

4-3-2-1 with Kaka as RAM and Seedorf/Rui as LAM required great agility and quick thinking of the forward, the qualities only Sheva and Pippo possess. He must react quickly to the short ball (one-two) of two AMs to link up attack movements, and to take through balls of Kaka/Rui and short range crosses of Seedorf, because the 2 AMs will make his space smaller. It is even better when he can hold the ball and pass to other AM.

In 4-3-1-2, there must be at least a link between ACM (Rui/Kaka) and a forward. With this, we would have steady stream midfielders-ACM-FW-other FW. When both forwads have the abilites (quick thinking, quick movement), this formation could be very destructive.

However, there is a problem with 4-3-1-2 when we have 2 hungry forwards: there are not enough ball for them: 1 ACM must supply 2 FWs. We had 2 solutions: 1. One "quick" striker must have broad view and good passing ability to do another job - supporting; 2. Switch to 4-3-2-1, then the "quick" striker will have abundant balls, he just need to finish them.

So the best "quick" forward we ever had was Sheva, he could not only finish, but also help other "quick" forwards like Pippo and Crespo or "normal" ones like Tomasson and Gilardinho.

Without player like Sheva, both formations Carlo love failed to deliver consitently. We won CL 2007 because both AM: Seedorf and Kaka became suddently too strong, the "quick" striker only need to be one match hero: Pippo. Ronaldo was a good option, but we all know the reason why.

Pippo could exchange passes with Kaka at some situations, but that was not his main job, not his strength (he is weak physically, technically and old). Until today, Pato is still struggling to make an assist.

Gila had Sheva as his partner in only one season, he is not "quick" type, too.

In Fiorentina last season, Gila had the supply of Mutu ("quick" one, maybe) and the ACM - Jovetic, so he scored a lot in 4-3-1-2 formation. But when Mutu out, he struggled to score, Fio struggled to win.

However, IMHO, Gila is the most complete center forward of Italia in last 5 years. Luca Toni is only 10 centimeters taller than him.

And our formation this season deeply need a complete center forward, the one who can head, shoot with both legs, and of course, score in given chances.

Except his scissor kick, Borri's finishing does not impress me. Hunter has language problems. Pato can not take the CF position yet.

Back then, Gila had the chance to play (started many matches) but he did not have many chances to score. What I saw were a forward struggling to get a ball, was too alone among the crowd of defenders when we play 1 forward against defensive teams, and had little help in 2 forwards formation (Pippo and Pato, as mentioned above, could not support well). He hardly received a good cross, at that time we did not have Dinho or Beck, had no winger and the full back like Oddo.

This is only a personal thought, a hypothesis. I just feel Gila was so unlucky to join Milan at wrong time.

1. His name is "Gilardino" no "h" spelling his name wrong doesn't bode well for your post
2. He is slow
3. He's weak
4. Can't dribble
5. Unless the attack converges around him he's going to be another EPIC FAIL. These were the conditions @ Parma when he was successful. Here he still would have to share huge portions of the attack with Pato and Ron
6. Dives a lot (and not convincingly either)
7. Gilardino<Borriello (Borriello is improving incrementally as well)
8. Born Junentino (i.e. instant turnoff)

Originally Posted by drucurl

1. His name is "Gilardino" no "h" spelling his name wrong doesn't bode well for your post
2. He is slow
3. He's weak
4. Can't dribble
5. Unless the attack converges around him he's going to be another EPIC FAIL. These were the conditions @ Parma when he was successful. Here he still would have to share huge portions of the attack with Pato and Ron
6. Dives a lot (and not convincingly either)
7. Gilardino<Borriello (Borriello is improving incrementally as well)
8. Born Junentino (i.e. instant turnoff)

1. Sorry, maybe I suffer the R80 obsession
2. I've said he is not quick, not fast, but he is not slow. Average, enough for CF, I think.
3. He is really physically strong, mate. And I rarely see him having any serious, long injuries. In fact, he very seldom has.
4. Agree, but neither Borri, Pippo, Hunter can. The same goes to Crespo, Tomasson, Bierhoff.
5. Agree, but the lone striker need and deserve maximal support, right? He can shield the ball, but in our slow attacking, he usually get the ball in midfield or among crowd of defenders.
6. If you can't dribble, then dive
7. My heart agrees ^^
8. I hate that, too. And the way he said that he will celebrate when scoring against us did piss me off.
   

However, the truth is we did not use him well, and now we need that type of forward.

Every team wants to have a strong, powerful, good finishing and can play on and off the ball target man. But the truth is that, only one to two players really fit that description at present compare to 8 yrs ago where there were close to 10 of them.

Originally Posted by Aficio

Talking about center forward, I've just remembered an old player, who could suit our strategy the best.

His name is Gilardinho.

You would ask me: Why didn't he success with Milan?

Because our old strategy did not suit him. Carlo admited that, his formation of the CL 2007 final suited Pippo more than Gila.

Back then, Carlo used 4-3-2-1 or 4-3-1-2

4-3-2-1 with Kaka as RAM and Seedorf/Rui as LAM required great agility and quick thinking of the forward, the qualities only Sheva and Pippo possess. He must react quickly to the short ball (one-two) of two AMs to link up attack movements, and to take through balls of Kaka/Rui and short range crosses of Seedorf, because the 2 AMs will make his space smaller. It is even better when he can hold the ball and pass to other AM.

In 4-3-1-2, there must be at least a link between ACM (Rui/Kaka) and a forward. With this, we would have steady stream midfielders-ACM-FW-other FW. When both forwads have the abilites (quick thinking, quick movement), this formation could be very destructive.

However, there is a problem with 4-3-1-2 when we have 2 hungry forwards: there are not enough ball for them: 1 ACM must supply 2 FWs. We had 2 solutions: 1. One "quick" striker must have broad view and good passing ability to do another job - supporting; 2. Switch to 4-3-2-1, then the "quick" striker will have abundant balls, he just need to finish them.

So the best "quick" forward we ever had was Sheva, he could not only finish, but also help other "quick" forwards like Pippo and Crespo or "normal" ones like Tomasson and Gilardinho.

Without player like Sheva, both formations Carlo love failed to deliver consitently. We won CL 2007 because both AM: Seedorf and Kaka became suddently too strong, the "quick" striker only need to be one match hero: Pippo. Ronaldo was a good option, but we all know the reason why.

Pippo could exchange passes with Kaka at some situations, but that was not his main job, not his strength (he is weak physically, technically and old). Until today, Pato is still struggling to make an assist.

Gila had Sheva as his partner in only one season, he is not "quick" type, too.

In Fiorentina last season, Gila had the supply of Mutu ("quick" one, maybe) and the ACM - Jovetic, so he scored a lot in 4-3-1-2 formation. But when Mutu out, he struggled to score, Fio struggled to win.

However, IMHO, Gila is the most complete center forward of Italia in last 5 years. Luca Toni is only 10 centimeters taller than him.

And our formation this season deeply need a complete center forward, the one who can head, shoot with both legs, and of course, score in given chances.

Except his scissor kick, Borri's finishing does not impress me. Hunter has language problems. Pato can not take the CF position yet.

Back then, Gila had the chance to play (started many matches) but he did not have many chances to score. What I saw were a forward struggling to get a ball, was too alone among the crowd of defenders when we play 1 forward against defensive teams, and had little help in 2 forwards formation (Pippo and Pato, as mentioned above, could not support well). He hardly received a good cross, at that time we did not have Dinho or Beck, had no winger and the full back like Oddo.

This is only a personal thought, a hypothesis. I just feel Gila was so unlucky to join Milan at wrong time.

I think you didn't describe the situations well.

For 4-3-1-2 you have to have one of two forwards who can actually play the ball, who can do something on his own, who can come deep for the ball, help in team play, etc. Shevchenko or Pato for example. That is "quick" forward you're referring to. The reason we failed to utilize good 4-3-1-2 with Pippo and Gila was that both of them are typical penalty-box strikers, i.e. neither of them can't do anything on his own and neither can't come back and help in team play. All they could do is score.

In 4-3-2-1, you're wrong there. Gila didn't succeed in 4-3-2-1 because he was static, not because he wasn't quick or he couldn't "think quickly". To play a lone striker in 4-3-2-1 a player must have a great movement to succeed. That was the key, and that was the thing Pippo and Sheva had and Gila didn't have. Look at the second goal at Liverpool finals, that was some look-and-learn movement by Pippo, simply phenomenal. And that's the only way to succeed when you're alone between two defenders: to constantly move and to move into right positions. And Gila didn't move at all.

For Fiorentina, you're wrong again. They never played 4-3-1-2, they played and are playing 4-2-3-1, that can be turned into 4-2-2-2 or 4-2-1-3 during the game. And that's the system that suits Gila. When he has 2 or 3 players around him with two of them playing wide and making space for him.

IMHO Gilardino can't be called a complete striker. He's Borriello +. He can do everything that Borriello can (except dribble a bit) and he can do it better. Again, he can't do anything on his own. And we don't need a player like that. I don't want to mention how he loses himself in a big games...

Originally Posted by Revolver

I think you didn't describe the situations well.

For 4-3-1-2 you have to have one of two forwards who can actually play the ball, who can do something on his own, who can come deep for the ball, help in team play, etc. Shevchenko or Pato for example. That is "quick" forward you're referring to. The reason we failed to utilize good 4-3-1-2 with Pippo and Gila was that both of them are typical penalty-box strikers, i.e. neither of them can't do anything on his own and neither can't come back and help in team play. All they could do is score.

In 4-3-2-1, you're wrong there. Gila didn't succeed in 4-3-2-1 because he was static, not because he wasn't quick or he couldn't "think quickly". To play a lone striker in 4-3-2-1 a player must have a great movement to succeed. That was the key, and that was the thing Pippo and Sheva had and Gila didn't have. Look at the second goal at Liverpool finals, that was some look-and-learn movement by Pippo, simply phenomenal. And that's the only way to succeed when you're alone between two defenders: to constantly move and to move into right positions. And Gila didn't move at all.

For Fiorentina, you're wrong again. They never played 4-3-1-2, they played and are playing 4-2-3-1, that can be turned into 4-2-2-2 or 4-2-1-3 during the game. And that's the system that suits Gila. When he has 2 or 3 players around him with two of them playing wide and making space for him.

IMHO Gilardino can't be called a complete striker. He's Borriello +. He can do everything that Borriello can (except dribble a bit) and he can do it better. Again, he can't do anything on his own. And we don't need a player like that. I don't want to mention how he loses himself in a big games...

Thank for correcting me

In 4-3-1-2, I mean the supporting on must have broad view (tacitcaly good) and good passing skill. Pato is fast & skillful, but his passing is terrible and he does not know other forward's movement well. He can do something on his own but he looks like a Ronaldo more than Sheva or Ibra. After selling Sheva, failed to buy Ibra was our biggest regret, because only he could provide the same value as Sheva.

4-3-2-1 is a tricky formation. It need a forward that born to play lone striker, he doesn't need only to score but also cooperate with 2 AMs to assist them. Pippo shined in CL because other teams did not know his style well, and in Serie A when opponent seemed to forget about him. He is more like a secret weapon than a regular-fired canon. But he could not help the teamplay, Gila helped the team more than him, although Gila really did a bad job.

With his only 2 formation and given players, poor Carlo did not have the type of striker he wanted. Not Pippo, Pato, Paloschi or Gila.

Sorry, I was wrong about Fio.

However, I still think Gila is a complete CF, with the crosses of Dinho, Beck and sometimes Abate & Antonini, through ball of Dinho, Gila could score more than Borri.

I wrote the post with mix emotions, in the beginning just trying to think about other CF than Dzeko, Adebayor.

oh, boy, what a game for Man U. so much for that whole Milan has CL in its DNA crap from Galliani. hey, B&G, what do you think about spending nothing on the team now?

Hey guys....

Firstly that match against Man Unt. was always hard from the start, and highlights the defiencies in our squad. I always knew, despite how much I like Abate, that our make shift full backs such as himself would struggle against Manchester's wingers, and that ended up occuring in both legs.

We are too far from teams such as Barca and Manchester to simply top our squad with 1or 2 decent players and expect to be right up there again (expensive buys like Dezeko and a rumoured Van Buyten bid are waste). We should just look at rebuilding now, and to Galliani's credit, he has woken up and started that... Ensuring the return of Paloaschi and Astori should be a help as well. I also heard that Adiyah has come off a bad start and impressed in pratice matches with the main squad and youth team...

What do you guys think of using Flamini to get Pastore? As much as I like the Frenchman, he has been given his fair time to get a starting spot, and the Palermo player is the man we need....http://www.fansfc.com/story/19598.html

AS long as Pastore is playing for Palermo, he won't be coming to Milan any time soon.

Originally Posted by Saliwonczyk

What do you guys think of using Flamini to get Pastore? As much as I like the Frenchman, he has been given his fair time to get a starting spot, and the Palermo player is the man we need....http://www.fansfc.com/story/19598.html

Now that Leonardo starts to trust Flamini (we'll see if he starts again), now that Flamini seems to have step up his level (against Roma and against MU, even if it wasn't hard against MU, he was among the best players of our team), well, now you want to use him in a trade of players ?!

Flamini must stay and must play.
By playing more, he will do less "stupid fouls" as he won't have to prove in 5 minutes that he deserves to play ... he will have 90 minutes to show what he is worth.

7-2 is too harsh for me...its not easy to accept this lose...

We have to start signing world class players...

Bonera is not WC...He was always 1 metre away from Rooney...he gave much space to him to move and he penalised us...a world class defender never do such mistakes...Bonera costed us 2 goals...

Favalli...first leg...

Jankulovski...he has to leave....he is finished...he was never a wing back i wanted...

Antonini is neither not world class yet he is better...

Abate failed vs big teams..inter's mistake and he did nothing yesterday...

Pirlo failed...Ambrosini had a terrible game...i expected him to have a bad game vs the likes of Park and Flecher who pressing and pressing and run off with ball and dribble...we need this kind of midfielders guys...not Ambrosini...

Offensively we were dead...Ronaldinho did nothing..you know me about Borriello...vs solid and class defenders he will always be isolated...Huntelaar with his all good will he is trying to wll yet when he had the chance to score he should have scored...the only thing he could do is scoring and if he doesnt do this...why he is staying at us...

if Pippo could not touch the ball in last minutes how can pippo can score a goal anymore?Pippo should retire his time has come...

United reminds me our side in 2007...Best player left(Sheva/Ronaldo) and second best player(Kaka/Rooney)shined more...

What if we had Rooney instead Borriello?the game would be different?