Banter 2009/2010

Originally Posted by ASHWIN

My squad for next season. It may look a little radical but it's possible. It will definitely not strain Mr Berlusconi's wallet. The sale of Ronnie, Pirlo, Borriello, Huntelaar and most of our squad should be able to fund this squad. Together with our pathetic revenue each year which is steadily on the decline. We need players who have not won anything and hungry for success. Most importantly, we need a strong Italian base in our squad. Well, it's just a fantasy. Not too sure if this will ever happen.


GOALKEEPERS:

FEDERICO MARCHETTI
CHRISTIAN ABBIATI
FELIPE PERUCCHINI

DEFENDERS:

IGNAZIO ABATE
ANDREA RANOCCHIA
DAVIDE ASTORI
DAVIDE SANTON
LORENZO DE SILVESTRI
ANDREA ESPOSITO
LEONARDO BONUCCI
LUCA ANTONINI
ALESSANDRO NESTA

MIDFIELDERS:

THIAGO SILVA
JAVIER PASTORE
HERNANES
FABIO SIMPLICIO
DANIELE DESSENA
MARCO BIAGIANTI
EDMUND HOTTOR
VLADIMIR KOMAN

ATTACKERS:

ALEXANDRE PATO
MARIO BALOTELLI
ALBERTO PALOSCHI
DOMINIC ADIYIAH

That's near impossible to do tbh. There's way too many changes in the squad to be able to get all the negotiations complete in one summer. Also too many changes to the squad is detrimental and will only serve to make Leonardo's job more difficult. Ajax are a good example of a club that's suffered from this.

Also I don't see why you'd want to replace players like Dinho, Pirlo, Ambrosini or even Flamini, as they've done really well this year and have added some consistency (particularly the first three) to our side.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

That's near impossible to do tbh. There's way too many changes in the squad to be able to get all the negotiations complete in one summer. Also too many changes to the squad is detrimental and will only serve to make Leonardo's job more difficult. Ajax are a good example of a club that's suffered from this.

Also I don't see why you'd want to replace players like Dinho, Pirlo, Ambrosini or even Flamini, as they've done really well this year and have added some consistency (particularly the first three) to our side.

Agree, and thinking about Santon or Balotelli in Milan is just something that will never be true a priori ...
Even a guy like Pastore is almost impossible to get as he is in Palermo, and we all know the magnificient relationship we have with them ...

Personally, I don't think a lot of teams in Italy would want to sell their players to us, as Milan is cheap and always rub it in others face when the transfer go their way.

As for Dzeko, I really don't see him coming to Milan as Milan will not pay over 25mil for him. Even if Milan throw in Hunter, as I am sure his value is not 15mil and if he has a good WC, Milan will keep him instead of sell him.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Oh, I forgot, can you give me a name of a WC left-back please ? And don't tell me Ashley Cole or Evra please ? I'm just curious because for me, there is none nowadays ...

There might be one, may not absolutely WC yet, but reasonably priced. But he has dental problem so I don't think any good team will want him. Way to go, Milan!

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

That's near impossible to do tbh. There's way too many changes in the squad to be able to get all the negotiations complete in one summer. Also too many changes to the squad is detrimental and will only serve to make Leonardo's job more difficult. Ajax are a good example of a club that's suffered from this.

Also I don't see why you'd want to replace players like Dinho, Pirlo, Ambrosini or even Flamini, as they've done really well this year and have added some consistency (particularly the first three) to our side.

I agree. I want to add that Ajax at least was used to playing all youngsters, and Milan virtually has no experience in handling a young team. Way to go, oldies!

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Agree, and thinking about Santon or Balotelli in Milan is just something that will never be true a priori ...
Even a guy like Pastore is almost impossible to get as he is in Palermo, and we all know the magnificient relationship we have with them ...

I wonder what happened? How bad could we hurt Palermo? All Galliani did was simply turning away a "useless and worthless" Toni and throwing in a few insults when they knocked on our door trying to sell him cheap to us. What's wrong with that? Way to go, Galliani!

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

Personally, I don't think a lot of teams in Italy would want to sell their players to us, as Milan is cheap and always rub it in others face when the transfer go their way.

As for Dzeko, I really don't see him coming to Milan as Milan will not pay over 25mil for him. Even if Milan throw in Hunter, as I am sure his value is not 15mil and if he has a good WC, Milan will keep him instead of sell him.

You got it all right, bro. I am hoping that we can get a few from the youth rank, otherwise, we are basically screwed. We used to have Leo finding some gem from South America, and we had to make him a coach. I don't hate him being a coach, I just hate losing a genius scout. Way to go, Berlusconi!

WB...it doesnt matter if its WC or not my friend.you didnt get my point there,i said that Real signed wrong world class players...if i were them,i'd sign Silva and not sign Kaka for instance.i'd sign a complete midfielder too...i'd play Silva instead Marcelo there...These kind of signing would make Real a team not a circus...Real needed a striker like Torres esque yet they signed Benzema...they made mistakes...i know its impossible to sign these world class players together,its a dream...i mean Silva,Torres instead of Kaka would be better...a Club can manage to sign Ronaldo,they cant managee to sign Evra...if they wanted they would...

Tremoulinas,Cissokho,Vargas,Taiwo,Lahm e.t.c. WC or useful players with quality...

i mean Robben and Sneijder not Huntelaar yet you are right about him,he would score much goals with current real team...

Everyone is better than Marcelo,i like Ansaldi(Rubin's LB),Criscito and Schafer(Wolsburg's LB) and rate them higher than Marcelo...Every signing would be a upgrade over Marcelo...huge upgrade...

Milan wants Toulalan of Lyon and could exchange Flamini to reduce the cost.


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True DM (not the deeplying) is the last position I think we need upgrade. Ambrosini's form this season is simply wonderful.

However, our Cap is not getting younger (born 1977) and both Gattuso & Flamini did not impress me. Many Milanista crying for Flamini to play, but his perfomances were not good enough, maybe worse than Gattuso.

In Serie A

Ambrosini played 25 matches (4 subs), commited 62 fouls and was fouled 66 times (both are the highest in Milan), got 4 YCs, 1 RC.
That means he was very active & effective in both defense & attack

Gattuso played 16 matches (1 sub), commited 34 fouls and was fouled 23 times, got 4 YCs, 1 RC.

Flamini played 19 matches (9 sub), commited 18 fouls and was fouled 11 times, got 4 YCs, 1 RC.

The three got the same amouts of cards, so you can say who fouls more intelligent.

When Flamini played, I always worried of the possibility he would get a card. After a card, he play significantly less aggressive.

He run much and made us look more lively, but I didn't see the true effectiveness, his crosses, passes were not fruitful and even his tackles were so so.

He uses his head less effective than Gattuso, he is just younger and has more stamina.

In this season, I will not be sad if Gattuso was chosen before him. Of course, I want him to play & stay, but he must improve himself.

So I didn't write anything about Toulalan, just a bit disappointment of Flamini, our player.

Originally Posted by Aficio

When Flamini played, I always worried of the possibility he would get a card. After a card, he play significantly less aggressive.

He run much and made us look more lively, but I didn't see the true effectiveness, his crosses, passes were not fruitful and even his tackles were so so.

He uses his head less effective than Gattuso, he is just younger and has more stamina.

In this season, I will not be sad if Gattuso was chosen before him. Of course, I want him to play & stay, but he must improve himself.

So I didn't write anything about Toulalan, just a bit disappointment of Flamini, our player.

Well, Toulalan for Flamini isn't what I call a smart move, but I'm maybe wrong.
About Flamini, he showed in his last two games that he can be a starter (Roma and Manchester) as he clearly was one of the best players of our team in both games, along Thiago Silva. Of course, if his next game is in one month, we can't ask him to do several excellent performances.

Originally Posted by Rabia15

WB...it doesnt matter if its WC or not my friend.you didnt get my point there,i said that Real signed wrong world class players...if i were them,i'd sign Silva and not sign Kaka for instance.i'd sign a complete midfielder too...i'd play Silva instead Marcelo there...These kind of signing would make Real a team not a circus...Real needed a striker like Torres esque yet they signed Benzema...they made mistakes...i know its impossible to sign these world class players together,its a dream...i mean Silva,Torres instead of Kaka would be better...a Club can manage to sign Ronaldo,they cant managee to sign Evra...if they wanted they would...

Well, if it doesn't matter if a player is WC or not, why using the "WC" expression 11 times in your last two posts ?!

I didn't write it but made it clear in some way, signing Kaka' wasn't a bad choice for them nor would be for any team, it's using him as an attacking left midfielder (almost winger) and then as an almost classical central midfielder that can be considered as a bad choice, simply because they ask him to do things that he's not that good at !!

Anyway, of course Real did the wrong moves, at least for this season, not because the players are not the good ones (give me one single team that could deny any of these players), but because they wanted to change too many things at the same time and that never works ...
The worst is that they actually bought starters (which could look good), but too many at the same time. If they only bought Xabi Alonso and Ronaldo (+ Granero), it would have been enough for this season, but they also wanted Benzema, Kaka', and will probably want Villa or Silva this summer, and probably other players (it looks like Canales is already a done deal).

It's a bit off-topic, but with their current roster, they could play this way:
------------- GK --------------
---------- Defence -----------
----------- Diarra ------------- (defencive tasks only)
----- X.Alonso - VdVaart ------ (link defence/Diarra-attack)
C.Ronaldo ------------- Granero
----------- Striker ------------
Their team would be a lot more balanced than when they use Kaka' (and Kaka' can be used instead of Granero as a second striker, but they simply can't use Ronaldo, Granero, Kaka', Higuain, Benzema, all at the same time like Pellegrini did or probably was forced to do sometimes this season).

Anyway, this example of Real Madrid changing too many things at the same time should be the perfect warning to all Milan fans who ask a new starter for each position (which means for us: a striker, one or even two midfielders depending on the fans, a wing back, a central defender and a GK). It's simply too much. Our management should have started earlier, they didn't do it, it was a mistake, but clearing this mistake by buying all at the same time (I just think like if we had the money to do it, which is obviously not the case anymore) would just mean that we solve a problem by another problem, instead of trying to find and apply the solution.

From my point of view:
- we need a left back, yes, but contrarly to most people here, I don't think we need a new starter, but we need a player who could be a starter (in France: Tremoulinas for example) because Antonini has been good and deserves his place for next season ;
- we need a 26-27yo central defender to be the backup of Thiago Silva-Nesta, for this position, I think the guy has to be a top level player to actually progressively take the place of Nesta during the next season. It's the only position I would really spend a lot of money. I have no fixed idea about who could be this player nowadays (expensive ones like Alex, Vidic, or I don't know who else who have also some experience ? Or less expensive and flashy ones, but with a lot of potential like Bonucci, Rannocchia, Santacroce ? I don't know, I'm unable to make my mind, I would probably choose the second choice but they have no experience in CL) ;
- we need a midfielder, not a DM of course, but I don't care about the name of the guy, could he be the very hyped Hernanes or a younger Italian midfielder coming from nowhere, I just don't care. We just need a good player with legs ...
- we need a winger, no matter he is for the left or for the right wing (my choice: a right winger), because Ronaldinho can't play 45-50 perfect games in a season and Pato can't play a complete season without injuries unfortunately ... again, I don't think we need a new starter here.
- For the striker position, well, it looks like one between Borri or Huntelaar (probably Huntelaar) will maybe be replaced by Dzeko. If so, then I'm ok with that but it isn't my priority.

Of course, other moves like Favalli->Yepes, Kaladze->Astori, Inzaghi->Paloschi are things that have to happen.

So for me, we need 4 potential starters (+ Dzeko if bought by the club) but not 4 sure starters. With the combination of our current team and them, these few new players and the new depth they would bring would allow us to have two first teams or almost, which is our real problem nowadays (lack of depth).

EDIT: Ouch, such a long post ... I try to explain a bit my point of view, but by doing it so long, I feel it's not totally clear !!

About Misimovic, I agree with Revolver about his playing capabilities. However, I need to mention that he is a lockerroom headcase. He often feuds with his coaches (both club & NT), doesn't allow to be criticized, and can't cope with being benched. So, despite his virtues, I wouldn't go in that direction.
Bring us Dzeko

@Geo: I don't like the Toulalan - Flamini story either, and Ambro, Flamini & Rino are complete for DM (Zam & Abate sometimes could help), but Flamini's form does not really convince me. He & Hunter must show something in the rest of season.


For next season, I think we need:

- A top class AMC or a CF (better both but at least one).

We have many options for AMC, but the one that can play at the wing is better, in order to avoid collision with Seedorf (he will play at right wing, Pato at CF) and his versality will help a lot to lessen the adversity of injuries. 15-20 is enough, IMO.

For CF, Dzeko is maybe the only option but 40M is ridiculous. He is just one of the best strikers of Bundesliga, and when Mario Gomez cost Bayern 30M last year, his price is the same. In addtion, he wants to be with us and we are not their opponent in Bundesliga. The truth is he did not excel against big team & top CBs. He scored 2 goals against MU when no one marked him (the nearest ones to him were Evra, Carrick, Fletcher). That does not mean he is bad, but he is still not regarded as one of the world best.

- A CB who is better than Bonera to be our 3rd

IMO, Bonera has lost the ablity to challenge in the air, or maybe he's never been good at this. He could mark Rooney out of (most of) the match but let him head comfortably 2 times. So my requirement for CB is positioning, heading, good fitness, 50+ top league experience. I don't favour the old, but at least 2 seasons experience is needed. Bonucci & Ranochia are good, but it is still early to judgment. About 10-15M for him.

2-3 expensive players + Yepes, Astori, Paloschi, Diniz, Storari, Di Gennaro (maybe)
in for
Hunter (if we sign CF), Pippo, Favalli, Kala, Janku, Beck, Mancini, Dida out

And some players in Galliani's mind

I like Flamini more than Gattuso and I'm not sure where anyone would really think Gattusso (from THIS season) has been anything more than a flop. Though I do agree Flamini is very volatile and early on in the season he looked like he was going to get a red card everytime he entered the pitch, I think he has calmed down a lot more as the season. I think that is due in large part to him playing a bigger role for the team (by playing) and not having ot prove himself to Leo on the 10 minutes he would get every few games.

I think the biggest thing for Flamini is his offensive ability. He isn't uni-dimensional like Gattuso. That is why Ambro is important too. They don't only play the 3 meter passes laterally and just wait to get the ball back. They also get in the opponents box. Ambro is better in the air and Flamini is better with his shot. I think Ambro is better defensively though as when he is on his game, he will be found everywhere on teh pitch doing everthing. Gattuso has lost a step and a player in his position who relies on hounding opponents up and down the field, that hurts them significantly more than a CB who can rely on positioning.

I think the most important spot to fill on the pitch is CB. I think Nesta is going to miss even more games next season and after that who knows if he'll return. We need someone who can learn from him while he is still around. Someone who can also give him a few games here and there to rest so he can save energy for the important games in the CL. For that matter, I wished Leo trusted Flamini more to help Ambro with that.

I cant believe we are even discussing the sale of Flamini! A player that can play for another 5 years on top fitness level. And, this year, he played 10 times better then Gattuso!!! Every player needs security in his game, he needs minutes and games to gain serenity on the pitch. Flamini is treated unfairly, as it was the case vs Chievo after 3 VERY good games by Flamini...

Galliani, the moron, will eventually sell the man and invest in another 19 young players that will do nothing. Or its better to buy Viudez again and pay some trips to Brasil to Braida and his friends to have a good time!

Flamini for Toulalan , Im okay with this I mean im not for against it greatly there is only what 6 months between them in age so thats a non issue really Toulalan is more consistent due to playing time , IDK it wouldnt be the end of the world if it happened I guess.

Originally Posted by Rabia15

WB...it doesnt matter if its WC or not my friend.you didnt get my point there,i said that Real signed wrong world class players...if i were them,i'd sign Silva and not sign Kaka for instance.i'd sign a complete midfielder too...i'd play Silva instead Marcelo there...These kind of signing would make Real a team not a circus...Real needed a striker like Torres esque yet they signed Benzema...they made mistakes...i know its impossible to sign these world class players together,its a dream...i mean Silva,Torres instead of Kaka would be better...a Club can manage to sign Ronaldo,they cant managee to sign Evra...if they wanted they would...

Tremoulinas,Cissokho,Vargas,Taiwo,Lahm e.t.c. WC or useful players with quality...

i mean Robben and Sneijder not Huntelaar yet you are right about him,he would score much goals with current real team...

Everyone is better than Marcelo,i like Ansaldi(Rubin's LB),Criscito and Schafer(Wolsburg's LB) and rate them higher than Marcelo...Every signing would be a upgrade over Marcelo...huge upgrade...

I think Real had a wise transfer campagn, both economical and professional.

Their only problem is economical & professional can be the most successful at the same time.

The signing of Ronaldo, Kaka has great effect on merchandising.

They have two left full-backs that are weak at defending (Marcelo & Drenthe) then they bought Arbeloa, LB of Liverpool.

They even bought Raul Albiol and brought Garay back, maybe not WC, but both are very good CBs

They have Lass for DM (sub Diarra) and they bought Alonso to add both creativeness and sturddiness to the midfield.

You said that Torres should be signed, but he is poacher. They have Higuain (top scorer last season), Raul and Van. Of course, they can rely on the productive Ronaldo and Kaka. So the technical forward like Benzema is needed more. They were not wrong, they score the most goal in Liga, win all the home matches, that means they can beat Barca here.

Of course, not all the signing would turn out to be good, Kaka & Benzema are the examples. We beat Real of Kaka, Benzema and Raul, do you think we could beat the Real of Ronaldo & Higuain now?

I think they will buy world class defenders next season, they have the money. They didn't do that this season because:
1. Attackers, especially famous names like Ronaldo & Kaka will bring back many money to reinvest.
2. They have upgraded their defense with Albiol, Garay, Arbeloa.

The underachievement in CL was just a dip of form, to realize that they should use Kaka wiser (not leave him out but let him play at the right time, right position).

They will success , we should worry about ourself now

Originally Posted by Aficio

I think they will buy world class defenders next season, they have the money. They didn't do that this season because:
1. Attackers, especially famous names like Ronaldo & Kaka will bring back many money to reinvest.
2. They have upgraded their defense with Albiol, Garay, Arbeloa.

It's the problem: they didn't and don't have this money !!

Originally Posted by GeoTav

It's the problem: they didn't and don't have this money !!

I think you're got your reasons, anyway, we are not Perez to know exactly.

However, this is Real's problem. Having problems like Real is luxury

It is interesting to have problems like Real/Man City: How to spend more than 100M a season?