All posts re: the Italian Football Scandal (Moggipoli)

Yea, sorry I just noticed after I posted. I read it on acmilan.com and posted before I had a chance to read everything else.

Originally Posted by mk18

you know what i just noticed, that you love to disagree... no matter what!! i cant believe you dont see it... whether milan cheated or not is not the main issue here... you try to convince yourself that if juve are going down so are milan, i dont know what to tell you to be honest, but even if milan do get favoured, anyone with a truely honest heart knows that juve are cheaters while milan are just being favoured like any other big team...

... your really lucky that you have the ability to respond real well

no need for a discussion here though, your probably gonna keep retaliating and besides i dont like to read or write long posts ... well have to wait til we get the verdict

I may be sometimes disagreeing even on something so obvious, but i relly believe that i'm more objective then most of you here on some (most of the..) matters.

1. Juve ordering Messina players to injure Kaka and co.
2. Juve fixing Milan matches, so Milan will lose those matches.
3. Every single faul and penalty for Juve, wasn't a faul or penalty at all ....

I will always disagree on these, sorry to say but stupid, ideas of Yours !


It's understandable, yes, but what you're saying about some things about Juve, and especially about Milan, are totally out of logic.
But i am doing the same things many times, and that's why i understand u...we are all biased !

Originally Posted by mk18

your really lucky that you have the ability to respond real well

One thing is that i don't know if this is a joke, or you're serious, or both of them...and second thing is that maybe i didn't understand you well, but if i understood you....

I know some of my thoughts, especially the most logic ones, are making you nervous, ( the same as the other way around...Zlat really has a point some times and i'm burning here for not having the right answer for it ) and you don't want to hear some things where i defend Juve or attack Milan, especially when you know i have a point...but always using the chance to mention how i'm an outsider here and that even the smallest mistake will mean i'll be kicked out, is childish !

I really have a hard time "fighting" against you here. Noone called me to come here, and that's why i won't complain, but don't you dare threaten me with a ban, just because i'm not Milan's fan.

A smiley at the end of your sentence doesn't change much to me....if you really mind me here, say it, and i'll disappear faster then Moggi dissappeared yesterday when they asked him for an interview ...i promise !!!

A question for the ones who live in Italy :

Is it true that entire FIAT empire voted for Berlusconi on the elections ? I just read it on another forum.
It was also said that noone else but Romano Prodi was the one who gave orders for the investigation to go in public, and that Juve+Milan+Lazio were the teams who supported Berlusconi the most during the elections !

Hard to believe this, really....but maybe an Italian could say if this is only a roumour, lie or maybe even true !

Tony, this is a milan fans site... we don't have to be objective.
Now all juve stuff was fired (including Moggi), De Santis was dropped out of refs squad of the world cup, and some other high official (chief of referees comity I think) was kicked out.... and after all that u going to continue with ur bull sh*t?"???
Please administration kick this guy out of here...

Originally Posted by Tony 29

I may be sometimes disagreeing even on something so obvious, but i relly believe that i'm more objective then most of you here on some (most of the..) matters.

I simply love this. "I"m more objective than most of you here" lol.
Great one.

Originally Posted by The-Fan

Tony, this is a milan fans site... we don't have to be objective.
Now all juve stuff was fired (including Moggi), De Santis was dropped out of refs squad of the world cup, and some other high official (chief of referees comity I think) was kicked out.... and after all that u going to continue with ur bull sh*t?"???
Please administration kick this guy out of here...

Now let me turn to you:

This is a milan fans site, does it mean you can use poor language like "sh*t"? I better hope not, because the first guy got kicked will be you.

Originally Posted by Tony 29

A smiley at the end of your sentence doesn't change much to me....if you really mind me here, say it, and i'll disappear faster then Moggi dissappeared yesterday when they asked him for an interview ...i promise !!!

You are always welcome because you are more objective than the rest of us.

Originally Posted by Tony 29

But if Juve loses this Scudetto tomorrow, then this thing will have to be qualifyed as not true :
1. Moggi aranging most/all of the matches for Juve to win the Scudetto

or, if we take the thing above as TRUE, then this will also have to be true :
1. Milan won the Scudetto , only because Moggi wanted them to win it !

Then I realize:

1. If event B does not happen, A must have no direct influence on B.

But if
2. A leads to B.

Then,

3. If C wins, A leads to C.

Please, tell me if this is what you mean.

Originally Posted by kris

Match fixing is only 100% foolproof if ALL the players in BOTH teams have agreed on it. The classic example is the league game between two serie A minnow some years ago. I think one team was Bari. the game was 1-1 in the second half and both teams just walked around not caring. But then a Brazilian striker in one team made a rush and scored. How was the reaction? Silenze. In fact none of the players in his team celebrated the goal, in fact all players just looked at him as he celebrated. Nothing could be proved though, but it was clear to everyone watching it.

The fact that Juve have not won the title every year is obviously not proof of their innocence, cheating like this can only take you that far.

After having read reports today I do for the first time have hope that Juve may be relegated due to this. That they are guilty I have no doubt at all at.

Completely agree with you there kris. for match fixing to be 100% certain, everybody has to be involved: both sets of players, managers, etc....which is certainly not what has happened, or else we would have found out long ago. the approach i think juve are taking is to secure the 12th man on the field, i.e. the referee. once you do that, the balance of the game will always sway your way (from dubious calls, disallowed goals, dangerous freekicks, lots of extra time)....but it is also up to the players to capitalize on it. when they do, juve wins or draws games they ought to lose--which has happened so often, i cant even count. and on the occasions when it does not work out due to poor form or whatever else, then juve will lose games--which they do.

so whatever it is, the balance of every game in the season will be in juve's favour and with the quality they have, they capitalize on it more often than not and win titles. and if they are found to be guilty of doing this, then those cheating, low life zebras ought to be demoted straight to serie c, because with the quality they have got, there is no need to be doing this. it reeks of poor class and cowardice.

Hey! Hey! Hey! Welcome back Triniman! You been naughty someplace else??? Naughty no more I take that's why your back. Unless... coming here is being Naughty naughty. Good to have you back.

Originally Posted by rt9

Completely agree with you there kris. for match fixing to be 100% certain, everybody has to be involved: both sets of players, managers, etc....which is certainly not what has happened, or else we would have found out long ago. the approach i think juve are taking is to secure the 12th man on the field, i.e. the referee. once you do that, the balance of the game will always sway your way (from dubious calls, disallowed goals, dangerous freekicks, lots of extra time)....but it is also up to the players to capitalize on it. when they do, juve wins or draws games they ought to lose--which has happened so often, i cant even count. and on the occasions when it does not work out due to poor form or whatever else, then juve will lose games--which they do.

That's not absolutely true. If the fixing involves gambling, you will only need someone like a gk to really mess up the game. You know... concidental lapse in concentration in the goal area. Stuff like that. Now there are cases of fixing that would need the involvement more than one member of a team. Like in US Baseball during the 1917 Championship Series where you only needed certain key players on the team to be involved... not the WHOLE team.

All I know is that once anything is fixed and especially when it involves gambling the manipulation is so deep, the concept of what could've, should've, would've, did, didn't, must, must not, what, what not, BUTS, and IFS are totally out of the picture and lost.

Originally Posted by rt9

the approach i think juve are taking is to secure the 12th man on the field, i.e. the referee. once you do that, the balance of the game will always sway your way (from dubious calls, disallowed goals, dangerous freekicks, lots of extra time)....but it is also up to the players to capitalize on it. when they do, juve wins or draws games they ought to lose--which has happened so often, i cant even count. and on the occasions when it does not work out due to poor form or whatever else, then juve will lose games--which they do.

We also have many mentions that says they influence other games than their own to further their case. Except the most certain games of the opponenet (Milan, Inter, Roma, etc) we have instances like when the ref for a Udinese game (Juve was to play them next week) got instructions to "cut their squad in half" (make sure players miss the game against Juve). Udinese in that game got Jankulovski sent off and had 8!! players booked. Juve met a weak Udinese the next week...

Originally Posted by Kui

That's not absolutely true. If the fixing involves gambling, you will only need someone like a gk to really mess up the game. You know... concidental lapse in concentration in the goal area. Stuff like that.

Wrong. The others may not seem to cooperate with that goalie. Maybe there is no shots on goal, maybe his teammates scores three goals. Can you see a goalie let in FOUR goals on purpose? I think not. I would say he could do a maximum of two faked mistakes and in those cases it is possibly it still won't be a goal...

Originally Posted by kris

Wrong. The others may not seem to cooperate with that goalie. Maybe there is no shots on goal, maybe his teammates scores three goals. Can you see a goalie let in FOUR goals on purpose? I think not. I would say he could do a maximum of two faked mistakes and in those cases it is possibly it still won't be a goal...

kris... I'm not totally disagreeing with you. This isnt "wrong" as you called it when we use the Buffon case under investigation as an example. In that case, you have Buffon and perhaps one or two players in question regarding that particular match. You dont have the ENTIRE team under investigation regarding that one case. I was the one who did bring up the point about conspiracies being succesful, you needed a consorted effort of nearly everyone not just refs, and just one team. Do you not remember this??? Now if the fix is the motive for "GAMBLING" you dont need everyone on the take. When a keeper isnt at his best and when he's not on the "take" four goals are a possibility. Doesnt gurantee a "prefered" outcome but sure as hell make it a whole lot easier.

do you believe Milan involve match fixing?