All posts re: the Italian Football Scandal (Moggipoli)

Originally Posted by Tony 29

1. What was said on those phone calls ?

And do you know that the board didn't even resign ? The boards meeting will take place on June 29, and then it will be decided if Moggi and co. will stay with Juve or not.

And Ok, Moggi was caught asking for refs for 2 friendly matches, you do have a right to acuse him....but if what you're saying above stands, then does it means what you were saying in last years about Moggi bying refs, was only lack of objectivity ?
You also didn't have proves, did u ?

Now, i'll leave to watch the match.
Good luck to both Juve and Milan !!!

That's what the prosecutors will decide ... was incriminating enough or no. maybe the court will come out and say "there's not enough proof" ... that doesn;t mean that Juve are clean.
I gave you that example with a killer caught at the scene of the crime with a smoking gun in his hand. His lawyer could argue that it was someone else who shot the victim as there were NO witnesses who saw the accused AT THE VERE MOMENT of shooting the victim. The same thing is here - just because Moggi doesn't say on those tapes something like - "Gigi (Pairetto), I have bought hundreds and hundreds of games for Juve, 6 scudettos, and only if the police new .... and so on" - that doesn't mean that he is innocent or he won't be proven guilty. Maybe he won't, but that would be just because of either a currupt court or of some technicality, you know all those secret paths around the laws that lawyers are well aware of. Well, I and most common people. unlike lawyers and judges do not base our decisons on technicalities; for me it's enough to catch that killer with the smoking gun at the scene of the crime and will know all I need to know.

Originally Posted by Tony 29

http://www.goal.com/en/articolo.aspx?contenutoid=43458

well, tony that guy seems to ask many questions but missed a most important one - why would Juve's board of directors resign and basically announce "crisis" to the world, if all these allegations were untrue, unfounded, and just the result of the rest being envious of Juve's glory? Do you thin Milan's board of durectors would do the same if they new the are clean and some paper just comes out with a similar story, a made-up one, about Milan?

Tony 29.... Milan and Juve are rivals, but I still respect all Juve fans, including you! But I don't understand how you can still keep on denying most of the proven things that have been said about Juve.
I understand that you support your team, but it's really useless to keep on defending everything they did! Your team is in big ****!
If they really can prove that Milan is in the same big **** as Juve, then I'll certainly immediately admit and I'll feel ashamed! I'll still support Milan, but I'll feel ashamed.

Originally Posted by zlatanov

You do have a point but honestly, how many Juve games, or in that matter games in general, do we witness when there is no shot on goal, not that many really ... and if any, those are games that have most probably been "arranged" and everyone's on it ... except maybe a Brazilian player who comes in the 80th min and scores a goal to everyone's amazement .
And in Juve's case, it's not very often that the other team can score a lot of goals, in fact it's rarely more than 1-2, meaning that a GK error would heavily influence a tight game.
Just a thought, although I disagree with Kui a little too

Ok look... Either I'm not getting my message out correctly or you guys arent listening and thus your not understanding anything I'm talking about IF this is a gambling issue. Zlat I quoted you as you are the previous sub quoted post between you, me and kris. This post of mine is more directed to kris. Of course you can hear me out on this too.
So let me explain the dynamics of wagering here.
Moggi is the "insider" who has the power to manipulate games in Serie A to a certain extent via refs, officials, drug testers, club exces, etc, etc. in ORDER to get an EDGE AGAINST THE ODDS. Not neccesarily to determine the outcome for Juve or anyone to win Scudetto.
I will now refer you all to the discussion betweeb Moggi and Bergamo. Kindly look at the context of the transcript and open your minds to the MOTIVE.Moggi/Bergamo Transcript I apologize for the source as being Goal.com but there it is. So now we establish Moggi as an insider. Now the question is "What is the motive for him doing this?" If you've only considered "to give Juve the title", that's a bit shortsighted as the conversation is trying to manipulate a whole set of games also. Now my theory in the same manner that fixing a title for solely Juve's sake is A THEORY TOO, is that this has the smell of gambling involved.

I now will tell you my expertise of gaming. For like the 3rd time already I'm a private hadge fund manager that invest peoples money against RISKY investments. Call it what you want... IT'S GAMBLING. Now there are a number of ways to lessen the risk in anything that deals with wagering/betting. The easiest way to cut risk is to place bets both ways i.e.
Juve-Milan $100-$100. If the odds are "even" my risk is down to zero and my winnings will be $0.00 I BREAK EVEN. This is a guranteed way to not lose but also a gurantee way not to make anything at all! Let me impress upon you that there is a way to 1. NOT LOSE and 2. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY.
Let me give to you another example... say in this scenario the game is honest and no one is trying to fix a game favoring one team or another and the match is Juve-Atalanta. Reasonable odds will be that Atalanta can beat Juve 1 in 4 attempts thus establishing the odds at 4-1 Atalanta win the game. By "HEDGING" my wager I can place one bet of $100 on Juve to win and another bet of $50 dollars for Atalanta to win. No matter what the result I will take home a profit of no less than +$50.
Juve$100
+Ata$ 50
$150
Thats my total investment for this one game.
My payout after the game at an odds of 4-1
Juve win $100
-Ata$ 50
$50
For an Atalanta win...
$50 multiplied by the odds of 4 50x4= $200
Atalanta win $200
-Juve$ 100
$100 gain
THIS IS CALLED HEDGING YOUR BETS.
Win, Lose or Draw if you play with the numbers of the odds against the total sum of your bets you will take home $$$ with little to no risk at all.

Now Moggi's influence with the refs, players, and govt security agents is AGAIN putting an edge to where he can cut the risk of the ODDS. If he can sway the game once in a while to where Lecce can beat Juve he's getting the edge for a big payout. Even if Juve wins with all the anomalies of players a being honest and sh!t, if he's HEDGED his wagers in the same manner I gave to you above, he still takes home a net gain of $$$! He's nixed out the ANOMALIES.
Ok... We without a doubt believe that he's always giving Juve the edge with referees favoring a win for them and securing title. He can STILL place a wager. AND if the ANOMALY occurs to where Atalanta wins the game even if the refs did in all their power to try to get Juve to win the match placing wagers both ways gives +$$$!. If the manipulation is as great as everyone is crediting Moggi to have, he can do this with all games in Calcio Italia REGARDLESS OF THE ANOMALIES! Add a couple more zeros behind the examples that I have shown you, winning purse money for scudetti is small potatoes compared to GAMBLING.
His motive to this gambling scenario is just one of two different theories i have regarding gambling. My earlier post was throwing to you another angle of gambling. He could be hedge betting with inside advantage OR he could be controlling the gambling houses and making money on the rake by manipulating the house odds insuring positve overturn all the time. SO again he's either a bettor with "inside" control or he's the bookie with "inside" control. I'm not too sure which it is if it even is this at all. This is just a motive in the same manner "giving Juve the title" is a motive for the fixing. But the formula I have shown to you above is a market fact. I do hedging every trading day on the stock market minus me having a Moggi(insider) of course! Actually my job is harder than this! This is easy the matchups in Sports are already established. In order for me to make money I have to figure a matchup of one investment/bet against another investment/bet. Kindly let me not have to explain this to you guys again.

FORZA MILAN!

I was able to read every phone calls, here in Italy everybody thinks Juventus will pay with relegation to serie B.
Phone calls are too clear, Moggi is considered by prosecutor to be the boss of a "commission" similar to Cosa Nostra's one. Prosecutors are speaking about "Associazione a Delinquere", the same crime that is referred to Mafia.
Milan is involved with this thing because a manager of the club who keeps relations with referees asked two "clever" linesmen after a match which Milan lost (Siena-Milan) because of Moggi's linesmen.
Milan probably will be penalized of some points in the next season.

Here in Italy it seems sure Juventus will be relegated to serie B.
Somebody speaks about serie C1 too.

if theyre relagated they should go to C ... just like fiorentina and napoli before them

If juve gets relegated, we will get scudettos for last 2 seasons, juve will loose aproximatly 200mil sponsorships, and then we'll need to win next years scudetto for 2 star!

Originally Posted by BlackRedInferno

...Milan is involved with this thing because a manager of the club who keeps relations with referees asked two "clever" linesmen after a match which Milan lost (Siena-Milan) because of Moggi's linesmen.
Milan probably will be penalized of some points in the next season.

do u mean ancelotti?
r u sure?

Originally Posted by BlackRedInferno

Milan is involved with this thing because a manager of the club who keeps relations with referees asked two "clever" linesmen after a match which Milan lost (Siena-Milan) because of Moggi's linesmen.
Milan probably will be penalized of some points in the next season.

Could you perhaps clear this part up, as every translation I've read or comments I've heard about Milan's involvement have been unclear and very confusing.

From what I can gather (I may be wrong), we're more than innocent, we're victims of all this, but if thats the case, then why should we have points penalised. It seems very strange to me.

I fear Milan can be involved, not with his main managers, but with this Meani.
Anyway Milan, at the state of things, is risking only a penalization of some points (not more than 6 i think)
As a milanista, I'm sad of our involvement, it's a bad thing, even if we had no real benefit from those damned phone calls.

Only fitting that they at least lose the titles they won during that period of alleged match fixing

Originally Posted by triniman

Only fitting that they at least lose the titles they won during that period of alleged match fixing

And when were the dates??? None of us have determined or established this.

No, we will not get last 2 years scudettos, when a scudetto is retired it remains unassigned.
There's a little hope for this year title

Originally Posted by Kui

Hey! Hey! Hey! Welcome back Triniman! You been naughty someplace else??? Naughty no more I take that's why your back. Unless... coming here is being Naughty naughty. Good to have you back.

Hey Kui.....good to be back...and by the way i'm always naughty...here or anyother place...

but seems my services were needed back here so i came back ...and just in time for the rumour season and this Match fixing thing.....work work work