Mentalità Ultras

Originally Posted by jcastagn

Menon, the difference is that the murder of the cop was a planned event and he was being singled out. This weekend this fan picked a fight with some juve fans and was accidently shot by a cop (who was trying to stop the fighting). .

Thats what the cop said. If you ask the fans that killed the police, they would probably say that the police was trying to kill them, bla bla bla. Lets wait for the trial to finish before making any assumptions on why and how the lazio fan was killed.

Originally Posted by jcastagn

If this Lazio fan was stabbed and died by the juve fans would this rioting have taken place? Or is just because a cop shot an ultra? I'm a Milan fan, if I die in a non-soccer related accident on a game day will the Ultra's riot if games are played? These riots were not about football, they were about the Ultra's hate of the police, a conflict that they bring on themselves by the way they act. .

The rioting might have taken place between Lazio and Juventus fans with the others not getting involved. I strongly believe that the rioting took place because the cop was involved and sort of the ultra's wanting a similiar tribute to 1 of them as what happened when the police office was killed.


I still dont get why you and others who keep saying that this violence are not about football? Well why would a bunch of Juventus and Lazio fans fight for ? Over ice hokey? Its sound like some cover up work from the officials+police.

Originally Posted by jcastagn

If there are Ultras in this forum, please let me know when one of you die so I can tell my employer that I can't make it to work because of this event. And if they make me work I'll make sure I break some windows until they agree with me.

Like i said, the riot took place only because the police were involved as there has been tension over the past couple of months between the ultra's and the police. On top of not getting a tribute and games suspended this weekend because a police office killed an ultra, i strongly feel that the majority of the ultra's are still pissed with the new security laws implemented in the stadium after the death of the policeman a couple of weeks ago. The tension has been rising and it was just a matter of time before it exploded.

Oh well, at least Seedorf agrees with me

Seedorf On The Attack: Italian Government To Blame For Violence

Milan star Clarence Seedorf has blamed the Italian Government for football violence and says that the hostility and bloodshed shows how the Italian people are unhappy with how the country is being run.

In a sensational attack, Seedorf says that the problems, which saw Lazio fan Gabriele Sandri tragically shot dead by a policeman on Sunday, are being covered by the government, who are using football as a scapegoat for their own shortcomings.

"The Government is using football for the problems in Italian society,” said the Dutch midfielder.

"They should think about shutting down the Government for a couple of weeks."

Seedorf also referred to the death of policeman Filippo Raciti, who was killed by a hooligan during riots in the Sicilian derby between Catania and Palermo in February of this year.

"The situation following the Catania riots has not changed," he added. "They [the Government] cannot blame football every time.

"The people are not happy. They are coming to the stadiums to express their feelings and their feelings are not positive. "They don't come to express their disappointment at the team.

"The whole country is lacking leadership."

Carlo Garganese

source: goal.com

I'd take that with a pinch of salt....I couldn't help but seeing Berlu behind these statements. It's clearly a shot at Romano Prodi....whether it's of Seedorf's own accord or due to the other coach is questionable

Originally Posted by menon_inc

Oh well, at least Seedorf agrees with me

Seedorf On The Attack: Italian Government To Blame For Violence

"The whole country is lacking leadership."

source: goal.com

"Mass and power" written by Elias Canetti is a good book to understand in these absurd situations where the use of the brain is clearly optional in some people.
-The policeman, I think, believed that there was a robbery at the motorway station; then he shoot NOT only in the air, that's sure.
-The sad story was born around the difficulties to explain the fact by the Arezzo authorities : press has its responsibilities too, because they were immediately ready to launch incendiary news like "fotball fan killed by a cop" without thinking the dangerous consequencies.
-This case is NOT at all connected with football .
-For what I have seen, Ultras have demonstrated once again that they are stupid and empty: no brain, no heart, no good sense, they are ready and good only to scream and crash without reasons .

-About Seedorf, it's sure that someone (!) is trying to use football for his own interest: would Seedorf want the "strong man" now in Italy?
please....

Originally Posted by drucurl

I'd take that with a pinch of salt....I couldn't help but seeing Berlu behind these statements. It's clearly a shot at Romano Prodi....whether it's of Seedorf's own accord or due to the other coach is questionable

Yeah it could be but lets face it, ever since Prodi has been incharge, the situation has been out of control (football violence that is).

here you go.... kaka's reaction:

Italian football is losing credibility,” Kaka told La Gazzetta dello Sport. “We need to take action immediately or the sport could die.

“The scandals, the dead police officer and now the dead fan. Stop it now or the champions will leave one after another.”

goal.com

How can people slam the Ultras? Ultras are a blessing to the sport. Without them there would be no atmosphere. So what if people die every now and then for their little pleasures. The most important thing is that ultras and their culture live on!

Pathetic. Hopefully the authorities get rid of this disease because once Italy gets their stadiums modernized and safe for families, Italian football will return to being the toast of Europe. It's a shame for our ultras because they're well behaved on the whole.

Originally Posted by menon_inc

Thats what the cop said. If you ask the fans that killed the police, they would probably say that the police was trying to kill them, bla bla bla. Lets wait for the trial to finish before making any assumptions on why and how the lazio fan was killed.



The rioting might have taken place between Lazio and Juventus fans with the others not getting involved. I strongly believe that the rioting took place because the cop was involved and sort of the ultra's wanting a similiar tribute to 1 of them as what happened when the police office was killed.


I still dont get why you and others who keep saying that this violence are not about football? Well why would a bunch of Juventus and Lazio fans fight for ? Over ice hokey? Its sound like some cover up work from the officials+police.



Like i said, the riot took place only because the police were involved as there has been tension over the past couple of months between the ultra's and the police. On top of not getting a tribute and games suspended this weekend because a police office killed an ultra, i strongly feel that the majority of the ultra's are still pissed with the new security laws implemented in the stadium after the death of the policeman a couple of weeks ago. The tension has been rising and it was just a matter of time before it exploded.

The Ultra's need to get over the new security laws. They are in place because of THEIR voilence. Everyone is saying it is not a football related incident because everyone who has spoken on he matter has said so, the president of Lazio said it, the cop said he didn't recognize that the people fighting were football fans at the time. All officials, government and club, are trying to seperate what happened from soccer. Do you think the cop had such disgust for Lazio that he just wanted to murder a fan? Don't you think he'd knew what would happen in that case? This cops life is ruined, he killed a young man by accident. Sh!t happens.

The Ultras are not calcio! They need to realize how lucky they are being able to follow OUR beloved team and their actions are killing it for everyone. They represent a small number of fans and should be eradicated from the game. They bring voilence and hate to the game and that is unwanted.

I thought it was sad watching Atalanta players pleading with their Ultras to stop their actions and the Ultras kept on going, defying the players of their beloved team, over what? An accident in tuscany that had nothing to do with them.

Originally Posted by ginoformaggino

-For what I have seen, Ultras have demonstrated once again that they are stupid and empty: no brain, no heart, no good sense, they are ready and good only to scream and crash without reasons .

yeah, yeah you are right, ultras are the most stupid people in the world, they are so stupid, why don't we just kill them all or arest them all, we wanna to take our granmma and grandfather, aunt, uncle, etc to the masonic lodge so they can sit down eat hot dogs and drink bear in silence, and sometimes maybe screan name of their club, why do we need bunch of stupid ultras who will stand all match and we wont be able to see the ground, who will be so loud, singing their club songs, so we won't be able to hear referee...
nabijem vas

Originally Posted by jcastagn

The Ultra's need to get over the new security laws. They are in place because of THEIR voilence. Everyone is saying it is not a football related incident because everyone who has spoken on he matter has said so, the president of Lazio said it, the cop said he didn't recognize that the people fighting were football fans at the time. All officials, government and club, are trying to seperate what happened from soccer. Do you think the cop had such disgust for Lazio that he just wanted to murder a fan? Don't you think he'd knew what would happen in that case? This cops life is ruined, he killed a young man by accident. Sh!t happens.

The Ultras are not calcio! They need to realize how lucky they are being able to follow OUR beloved team and their actions are killing it for everyone. They represent a small number of fans and should be eradicated from the game. They bring voilence and hate to the game and that is unwanted.

I thought it was sad watching Atalanta players pleading with their Ultras to stop their actions and the Ultras kept on going, defying the players of their beloved team, over what? An accident in tuscany that had nothing to do with them.

1) yes that cops life is ruined, but what is with with Lazio fan parents???

2)ultras culture was before and will stay after this stupid laws...

3)today in Tuscany, tomorrow in Bergamo, Milano, Torino...

Originally Posted by MIRZA

yeah, yeah you are right, ultras are the most stupid people in the world, they are so stupid, why don't we just kill them all or arest them all, we wanna to take our granmma and grandfather, aunt, uncle, etc to the masonic lodge so they can sit down eat hot dogs and drink bear in silence, and sometimes maybe screan name of their club, why do we need bunch of stupid ultras who will stand all match and we wont be able to see the ground, who will be so loud, singing their club songs, so we won't be able to hear referee...
nabijem vas

are you serious?
it is funny how you think that everyone wants people to be killed or arrested?
we want the ultra's to STOP the violence. What does it prove? How could you possibly think it is ok?

WHY CANT THE ULTRA'S JUST STAND THE WHOLE GAME AND SING SONGS AND MAKE NON-RACIST/VOILENT BANNERS!!! no, they need to be able to destroy the vary game that they love if they choose.

I would love to be able to bring my young sons to see the great maldini play...but he and i are not ultra. and yes, kids get hungry, why cant we sit and eat some nacho's, enjoy a drink, and watch some beautiful football?

i will spell it out for you:

sing songs = good
banners = good
standing the whole game = (dont care as long as i can watch the game)

lobbing missiles onto the pitch = bad
beating down cops = bad
beating down opposing teams fans = bad
getting games stopped for your own selfish reasons = bad
ruining seria a = bad

Originally Posted by icculus

are you serious?
it is funny how you think that everyone wants people to be killed or arrested?
we want the ultra's to STOP the violence. What does it prove? How could you possibly think it is ok?

WHY CANT THE ULTRA'S JUST STAND THE WHOLE GAME AND SING SONGS AND MAKE NON-RACIST/VOILENT BANNERS!!! no, they need to be able to destroy the vary game that they love if they choose.

I would love to be able to bring my young sons to see the great maldini play...but he and i are not ultra. and yes, kids get hungry, why cant we sit and eat some nacho's, enjoy a drink, and watch some beautiful football?

i will spell it out for you:

sing songs = good
banners = good
standing the whole game = (dont care as long as i can watch the game)

lobbing missiles onto the pitch = bad
beating down cops = bad
beating down opposing teams fans = bad
getting games stopped for your own selfish reasons = bad
ruining seria a = bad

you have 'east' and 'west' side of almost every stadium for people with their kids, or those who just wanna to watch the game...

as for violence I don't like it either, but that is ultras way of life. so what if they wanna to fight each other, they don't beat inocent people, they beat people who are like them, ready to fight for their club and their color..

when did ultras attacked cops without reason?? I can give you some proves when cops attacked ultras without reason...

getting games stoped becuase one ultras died isn't selfish reason, for me is selfish to play that games..

as for flares, in majority they aren't thrown on the pitch, but I addmit that sometimes fans throw it on the pitch and games got delayed for couple min...

Originally Posted by MIRZA

1) yes that cops life is ruined, but what is with with Lazio fan parents???

2)ultras culture was before and will stay after this stupid laws...

3)today in Tuscany, tomorrow in Bergamo, Milano, Torino...

1) The Lazio fan was taking part in a fight. If he wasn't fighting he wouldn't have gotten shot by accident.

2) Why are the laws stupid? Please spell it out for me.

3) Not sure what your point is on this one...is it that your are saying more roits and violence will continue? If so, way to prove my point about the Ultras.

Mirza,
Are the actions of the Ultras worth it if games are played with no fans? Or if the season ends because of violence? What if this most recent event causes for MORE laws and sercurity measures, will the Ultras riot again against that?

Originally Posted by MIRZA

you have 'east' and 'west' side of almost every stadium for people with their kids, or those who just wanna to watch the game...

as for violence I don't like it either, but that is ultras way of life. so what if they wanna to fight each other, they don't beat inocent people, they beat people who are like them, ready to fight for their club and their color..

look, i dont care if bunch of dudes get together in a field somewhere and beat each other up over who's soccer team is better...sounds kinda silly, but they shouldn't complain when the cops show up. and they should expect trouble and accidents to happen.

Originally Posted by MIRZA

when did ultras attacked cops without reason?? I can give you some proves when cops attacked ultras without reason...

cops have a difficult job. ultra's sound like vary volitile people, ready to beat down someone over nothing. if i was in charge of keeping these people under control, i might be a little jumpy.

Originally Posted by MIRZA

getting games stoped becuase one ultras died isn't selfish reason, for me is selfish to play that games..

why should they expect for the entire league to stop when someone accidently gets killed at one of these brawls. they are putting themselves into this position. the cop would never have been even there if they were not breaking some laws.
did you see all the children at the atlanta game? all they wanted is to watch their hero's... who's poster is on their wall. You know that there was at least on kid there, at his first match, maybe his last due to his finacial situation, or whatever, and he doesnt get to see the match, because of accidental shooting, in fight between lazio and juve fans at a gas staion 100's of mile away?
why should i care, over here in the states about this fight and shooting incident. lets say for arguement sake, that this policeman meant to shoot the car, while it would be wrong, why shutdown a soccer game? the coralation just doesnt compute.

Originally Posted by MIRZA

as for flares, in majority they aren't thrown on the pitch, but I addmit that sometimes fans throw it on the pitch and games got delayed for couple min...

are flares really that cool? i used to enjoy playing with sparklers when i was a kid, but the novalty has worn off...

The Ultras made Italian football the grand Spectacle it is. Unfortunately they may be well undoing it too. Nobody wants the passionless "win at all costs no matter how boring" fans (ie Chealsea fans ) But there must be a balance struck somewhere.