The devastation that Katrina left

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

Firstly, MM is about football, it has evolved over time and updated with the times. Moving into politics is changing the whole concept of MM, not developing it.

We have plenty of thread not about the football. For istance our living legend - MM pix thread. Why is not it closed yet?

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

Its also quite clear MMers won't be able to have a peaceful political discussion with already a number of angry posts made and many, MANY people have been enraged, but have managed to refrain from posting.

It was quite constructive disscussion between me and Kui in one thread and no one interrupt us with offences etc.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

good thing too, as that was clearly heading in a negative direction and Reza did the right thing, even if it makes some posters unhappy.

You are too intolerant for others. I never thought that about you

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

no, it isn't simple. Many will have an interest and considering how many idiotic comments (yes many comments that have been made are idiotic) are sometimes made people will get angry and there will no doubt be nothing but flaming.

I have jsut offerd to open a special thread which can be accsessed by everyone.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

or better yet, to talk about politics, go to a politics forum and leave this one as a football forum, with at most a sub section for people to socialise.

I hope this thread gets closed tbh, as although it was created with the right intentions, people are using it to create little more than political arguments, which are clearly becoming quite personal.

Also I warned people outside of the forums that this thread would be used to continue the political discussions. Its a shame I wasn't wrong.

AS I have said we have plenty of non-football threads, so why shouldnt we close them all

Originally Posted by Kui

You know if people are going to have offense to some things here than guess what???
Why not we close all the other stuff here that can be viewed offensive and sexist in other threads. I hardly think it appropriate to be talking about porn stars in a football forum. If everyone going to get b!tchy about it than lets do a clean sweep of everything inappropriate here! Ever been to the joker's paradise section??? Not all that nice things been said there. I can tolerate it. I dont see why all of a sudden there is no room for these kinds of discussion. I must also say that even in the football forums you got people saying bad tthings to one another. I hardly think it is not just the issue of "politics" being discussed that is the sole problem with people saying stupid things. I dont see how so many get a pass on the lousiest postings and now my opinions are not tolerated. I think maybe we should think of what the hell the word toleration is. Then let us just shut down lot's of stuff here in MM.

Totaly agreed.

BTW, guys, have you ever seen Kui mocking someone because of his "incorrect" political point of view?!

And in addition, I should remind you once more that we had a very constructive disscussion there for more then 4 months. So is it impossible to remain the same and continue disscussing about these thing.

PS: mind my offer. It can be a secret sub-forum, allowed only for regular users

Originally Posted by rae

BTW, guys, have you ever seen Kui mocking someone because of his "incorrect" political point of view?!

And in addition, I should remind you once more that we had a very constructive disscussion there for more then 4 months. So is it impossible to remain the same and continue disscussing about these thing.

PS: mind my offer. It can be a secret sub-forum, allowed only for regular users

Well I do mock. I'm not going to deny this. I do so when I hear things taken out of context or things that just arent true. And it isnt just pertaining to just "political" things. I have read the most outrageous naive things regarding football too. Most times I'll let it go. Likewise I would say that I am equally guilty of taking things out of context. Sometimes we tend to not say the whole message being it a forum and stuff.

Somehow my post when I did get "political" in this thread, I was critisized by whomever of my post being supposedly racist. So I dont know who gave me negative points. Frankly I dont care. I hold my reputation alone. No one gives me that nor to they take it away.

Listen if people are going to say things that perhaps werent given much thought, I will be absurd in response to what was absurdly posted. Stupid questions will most likely bear a stupid answer. Stupid talk will be responded by stupid talk. Disagreement will be met by disagreement. Agreement will be met with agreement. I have no problem with any of this!

Again kindly look at the passes others are getting before I must abscond myself from this place.

Someone kindly tell me how my post here #16 is at all racist??? What I'm trying to tell some people was that the world is fvcked up in general. It's nobody's fault and ironically it is also everybody's fault. I guess blaming everyone too makes me a racist.

Telling you never mock others I want to say that you never offend and abuse people by some rude posts.

Originally Posted by Kui

Somehow my post when I did get "political" in this thread, I was critisized by whomever of my post being supposedly racist. So I dont know who gave me negative points. Frankly I dont care. I hold my reputation alone. No one gives me that nor to they take it away.

No way. You are not a racist. It is more possible that guy who gave you negative reputation pts. is a racist. By the way, I got the negative RP too, for a very old post posted in May or June...

Getting back to aid and relief. There are indeed a good portion of countries offering aid. China and others in the EU are taking the high road. Such things are heart warming and very much appreciated with grace. For those out there actively doing thier part as I am from my office, I thank you as well.

For our MilanMania friend JakeM who studies at Tulane in New Orleans... I'm elated that you are safe. We will get throught this my friend. Meantime you keep your spirits up!

sorry to hear about it jakeM,i know it's very devastating but you gotta be strong
my condolences to all families who lost their realtives, R.I.P.

Wherever our political affiliations or sentiments lie, we should put them all aside and remember that the people who are suffering are human beings like you and me and have nothing to do with the politics of the US. In whatever way we can help, we should. Period.

Originally Posted by Debs

In a sad way I expected this thread would only get comments from those of us in North America. I don't wish to start any sort of political discussion but people get on our butts about being "the policemen of the world", want our aid when their own country is stricken.....and I'd better stop there. We'll take care of our own and everyone else too, or so it always seems.

I don't think so... the western countires(where there are teh most money) took the responsability to help during the tsunami.. as other countries of course, what they could.
When a flood destroyed Honduras' (prob. the poorest country of central america) capital, Tegucigalpa, the japanese came to help, and helped rebuild the city. so maybe it isn't always the united states who save everyone... When rich countries help others after catastophes like this, i think they also feel like they have the right to control them in some way.. or that's how i think they look at it.
No matter how you look at it, the States have the money to rebuild the city. But i am still sorry for the innocent people who lost their home so suddenly, and didn't deserve it at all.. it's like in war, it always comes down on the innocent.. I am also worried for all the people going to stores and robbing, definately not helping... well who knows what their thinking. I think americans got to stick together, and now focus on this problem, not problems of other countries.


Edit; Sorry i didn't finish reading the whole thread before posting nd didn't check if therewere posts after this one, i have now.

yah, helping yourselves nicely here. i can't believe this!

Guardsmen 'played cards' amid New Orleans chaos: police official

Sat Sep 3, 5:58 PM ET

A top New Orleans police officer said that National Guard troops sat around playing cards while people died in the stricken city after Hurricane Katrina.

New Orleans deputy police commander W.S. Riley launched a bitter attack on the federal response to the disaster though he praised the way the evacuation was eventually handled.

His remarks fuelled controversy over the government's handling of events during five days when New Orleans succumbed to lawlessness after Katrina swamped the city's flood defenses.

The National Guard commander, Lieutenant General Steven Blum, said the reservist force was slow to move troops into New Orleans because it did not anticipate the collapse of the city's police force.

But Riley said that for the first three days after Monday's storm, which is believed to have killed several thousand people, the police and fire departments and some volunteers had been alone in trying to rescue people.

"We expected a lot more support from the federal government. We expected the government to respond within 24 hours. The first three days we had no assistance," he told AFP in an interview.

Riley went on: "We have been fired on with automatic weapons. We still have some thugs around. My biggest disappointment is with the federal government and the National Guard.

"The guard arrived 48 hours after the hurricane with 40 trucks. They drove their trucks in and went to sleep.

"For 72 hours this police department and the fire department and handful of citizens were alone rescuing people. We have people who died while the National Guard sat and played cards. I understand why we are not winning the war in Iraq if this is what we have."

Riley said there is "a semblance of organisation now."

"The military is here and they have done an excellent job with the evacuation" of the tens of thousands of people stranded in the city.

The National Guard commander said the city police force was left with only a third of its pre-storm strength.

"The real issue, particularly in New Orleans, is that no one anticipated the disintegration or the erosion of the civilian police force in New Orleans," Blum told reporters in Washington.

"Once that assessment was made ... then the requirement became obvious," he said. "And that's when we started flowing military police into the theatre."

On Friday, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin denounced the slow federal response as too little, too late, charging that promised troops had not arrived in time.

"Now get off your asses and let's do something and fix the biggest goddamn crisis in the history of this country," the mayor said in remarks aired on CNN.

Blum said that since Thursday some 7,000 National Guard and military police had moved into the city. President George W. Bush on Saturday ordered an additional 7,000 active duty and reserve ground troops.

Blum said any suggestion that the National Guard had not performed well or was late was a "low blow".

The initial priority of the Louisiana and Mississippi National Guard forces was disaster relief, not law enforcement, because they expected the police to handle that, he said.

The police commander was unable to give a death toll for New Orleans.

"We have bodies all over the city. A federal mortuary team was supposed to come in within 24 hours. We haven't seen them. It is inhumane. This is just not America."

Riley said he did not even know how many police remained from a normal force of 1,700.

"Many officers lost their homes or their families and there are many we have not heard from. Some officers could not handle the pressure and left. I don't know if we have 800 or thousands today."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050903...5815&printer=1

Sandra...you get reputation points for your last post...well said

Originally Posted by rae

But you closed the only thread we had there...
And last thing I want to offer our MM officials. Isn't it possible to creat a special sub-forum about politics with restricted acess. For instance, you need to get a password to browse in it. And admins could give permission only for those who are treated a respective posters [they only want to express their opinion and share it with others, no offences, no abusement]. Anyone interested?

Only thread? If politics is allowed there, it won't be in one thread only...
About your suggestion, I am hesitant but at least thats an idea

rae and Kui, about the 'other' threads we will deal with any that receives complaints, I have received many about the politics here....any others you or others don't want to have here on MM tell me and we will decide one way or another


All the best to JakeM and everybody affected directly or indirectly

Originally Posted by Nadir

Wherever our political affiliations or sentiments lie, we should put them all aside and remember that the people who are suffering are human beings like you and me and have nothing to do with the politics of the US. In whatever way we can help, we should. Period.

This message makes me happy. You've not failed in my impression of you. I also came to say that after much contemplation, though I disagreed with some of your posts in another thread VE Day, you did mention some good points. Anything that I may have said in my reaction that may have caused any bitterness between us, I'm earnestly sorry.

Originally Posted by rezag

rae and Kui, about the 'other' threads we will deal with any that receives complaints, I have received many about the politics here....any others you or others don't want to have here on MM tell me and we will decide one way or another


All the best to JakeM and everybody affected directly or indirectly

As I said once before, I dont want any other peoples threads closing down. If people cant tolerate the talk of politics here than they should choose to ignore it. There are many threads that I dont like that I think should not be closed. I just dont go looking there. I just feel that if people are starting to campaign and complain for political threads to close down, it opens a can of worms to other threads that may be equally offensive to others including myself to close as well. I feel the best forum is an open forum. Political threads arent the only offensive thread in this forum.

Originally Posted by Nadir

yah, helping yourselves nicely here. i can't believe this!

Guardsmen 'played cards' amid New Orleans chaos: police official

In response to the article.

The blame game is something that is irritating. I'm not trying to be apologetic in the response or the handling of the disaster. But the excuses and finger pointing needs to stop. The reactionary attitude should not take precedence over proactivism. The sensasionalism in light of this tragedy should not overtake common sense.
Let's look at things in context rather than rant about something so many indiduals had the responsibilty. Who had the responsibilty??? Everyone from top to bottom directly involved had some accountabilty to getting what needed to be done. Me I dont like personally any attitude that is set in the mind that others have the responsibility to insure the survivabilty of oneself, especially when so many had the capacity to do it themselves
What angered me was not just the slow response but the sheer number of people who had the capability to not be there. There were too many people who did nothing but just wait for others. Doing so caused those truly in dire need to be lost amongst those who should have heeded the warnings to evacuate days before the hurricane. Why were so many still there waiting??? What are they waiting for???
I think the finger pointing points all outwards and never to oneself. Let's put this in fair context by saying that besides Hurricane Katrina, there are people who create a hurricane themselves in everway part of their life. People add and create there own chaos by being dependent, reactionary, complacent to a point where they facilitate civic chaos thereby adding to the overall crisis. There is no better example than this by what we say in New Orleans.

I'm advocating individualism not in a greedy way but in a virtuous and responsible way. This was not shown by some people that it made it impossible to get the needed help to the meek and sick. It was attrocius to see people do nothing! We all need to be aware and accept most part of the choices we make. From there do not mope and play victim. Move on to do what needs to be done. Say to oneself "This is the choice I made and how do I get myself out of it."

Instead and sadly we reopen old wounds of race or class differences that should have no bearing on the building of one's character. In light side of this, there were some who took it upon themselves to be great characters and took it upon themselves to do something in light of those whose foolish pride made themselves utterly useless. I have been blessed to know such strong people of all classes and races move on and not pose themselves as victims even in light of tragedy. I have seen the physical and mental foritude of some in the poorest of conditions and will say that they are the richest people on earth. Rich in character and rich in attitude. When you have people with strong rock set under and within them like I have seen in tragedies in my lifetime, chaos like that which insued in New Orleans will never happen.

did you guys see what Kanye West said on TV? Even Rev Jesse Jackson is saying that race had something to do with the slow response. i am not sure how this is helping the people there though? it's a topic to be dealt with later.