Mentalità Ultras

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

I think there's a misunderstanding. I don't think anybody is trying to say Ultras=Hooligans, but they have a strong disliking for the violence of some (not all, but a fair number) ultras.

The support the ultras show the teams is fine, nobody wants the support to end (not the other fans, not the clubs, not the players), and the ultras having sections in the stadium is fine too, I doubt anyone would be happy to see the Curva Sud losing it's passion. The only desire anyone has, and I'm sure you will agree with this, is that the violence ends.

I don't see why matches should have been postponed either, this has very little relevance to football, and as many players have said, is a reflection of the problems in Italian society rather than a football matter. The ultras that began this whole thing are hooligans (irrespective of how much they may support their team), there was no reason to act the way they did when seeing rival supporters on the road. The police (and security in general) in Italy are poor, most people know this, but the fact remains had these Ultras acted properly, rather than flaring up trouble when seeing each other, the police wouldn't have been involved to begin with, thus avoiding the whole situation.

I've read previously in the thread that ultras won't attack innocent people. I can only reply that earlier this season Milan fans were making complaints about how they were threatened to not show support to the side by the ultras (who were protesting against the club). Giovanni, a highly respected poster in this forum has told of personal experiences where he was threatened by ultras, and how violent some ultras can be.

Intresting points. Lets hope everything gets resolved before the next round of serie a action.

after almost getting in a fist fight in my over 30 league, i had time to reflect so i broke down the situation into 3 pts which i think we are all trying argue at once.

1. was it an accident or did the cop purposely shoot Sandri
A. the investigation is ongoing, so all the facts are unkown
B. the truth here might never be known
Conclusion: wether an accident or purposely it is tragic. But this is for a court to decide, and i dont see why you stop Seria A?

2. should of games been stopped because a fan was killed?
A. the only way i would see stopping a game is if it happened in the parking lot just prior to the game, and their was fear of rioting.
B. They stopped the Seria A last time because the death of the policeman was the result of hooligans reacting before, during and after a soccer match, at the stadium, and FIGC was fearful of similar outbreaks.
Conclusion: fans die, people get killed every day...how many times has a concert/sporting event been cancelled due to this? i have only seen it in italian football.


3. should new sanctions rain down from the FIGC or government?
A. no travelling fans - wont work and what fun is that?
B. further restrictions on Ultra's - imo the ultra's need to show the world that they are civilized human beings by getting control of their members and controlling game day violence. Also, they should be loud and proud at the matches, again showing the world that they are actually good for the sport and good for the team. For the ones that just want to fight, maybe a weekday reality show, where the toughest ultra's from each team duke it out for $$$ and prises.
Conclusion: Italy needs to get their stadiums up to standards so they can host major UEFA/FIFA tournaments and keep violence in the stadium to a minimum. the Ultra's need to do a little PR, and separate themselves from these idiots that promote violence and game stoppages.

Sad to say but we have similar cases like this in Jamaica. Not football related but many quetionable police shootings and shooting of policemen.

Lets hope the situation be resolved and we move on with football.

Originally Posted by HO-YOUNG

Sad to say but we have similar cases like this in Jamaica. Not football related but many quetionable police shootings and shooting of policemen.

Lets hope the situation be resolved and we move on with football.

Well said, I agree 1000000000%

It seems ultras will only rest once Serie A completely loses its luster, and all the star names move abroad. Because that's what will happen.

Hopefully by then the authorities can cure this disease once and for all, as far as the football stadia are concerned. If there are other social ills, then so be it. But the AUTHORITIES CAN BAN ULTRAS and THEY CAN BAN CLUBS FROM HAVING RELATIONS WITH THEM!!! These misfits can do whatever they want in their private lives.

Hopefully better seating and a family atmosphere can be found in Italy's stadia soon. Otherwise be prepared to lose Ibrahimovic, Kaka, and even Italian players to other clubs.

i just find it all to much...1 season after another there are problems, this is not just football related its a social issue to, I'm sure its been mentioned in previous posts but Italy it's self is in economic and social crisis and these reactions to the shooting are much more than protests about the incident its a reaction to everything imo

Originally Posted by Hasan Rossonero

.....Hopefully by then the authorities can cure this disease once and for all, as far as the football stadia are concerned. If there are other social ills, then so be it. But the AUTHORITIES CAN BAN ULTRAS and THEY CAN BAN CLUBS FROM HAVING RELATIONS WITH THEM!!! These misfits can do whatever they want in their private lives.

Hopefully better seating and a family atmosphere can be found in Italy's stadia soon. Otherwise be prepared to lose Ibrahimovic, Kaka, and even Italian players to other clubs.

The problem really lies with the fact that the politicians use the Ultras for their own purposes, so as long as they serve a "political" purpose, there wont be sufficient "government" will, to make, and enforce the necessary changes....and this for me, is at the very root of the problem.

During the cold war, Jamaica´s political parties operated in the same way, giving guns to gangs (akin to giving "support" to Ultras) in order to ensure communities voted in the way they wanted them to....now, Kingston has become the murder capital of the world, due in no small part to this action by the politicians...which has spiralled out of their own control.

What I hope not to see, is a repeat of what ultimately happend here, and that the virtual will of the masses of well-meaning, honest, upstanding Italians, will FORCE the politicians to retract from public support of the ultras, and to publicise where possible those parties/politicians who continue to use them for their own political gains.

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

The problem really lies with the fact that the politicians use the Ultras for their own purposes, so as long as they serve a "political" purpose, there wont be sufficient "government" will, to make, and enforce the necessary changes....and this for me, is at the very root of the problem.

During the cold war, Jamaica´s political parties operated in the same way, giving guns to gangs (akin to giving "support" to Ultras) in order to ensure communities voted in the way they wanted them to....now, Kingston has become the murder capital of the world, due in no small part to this action by the politicians...which has spiralled out of their own control.

What I hope not to see, is a repeat of what ultimately happend here, and that the virtual will of the masses of well-meaning, honest, upstanding Italians, will FORCE the politicians to retract from public support of the ultras, and to publicise where possible those parties/politicians who continue to use them for their own political gains.

I think clubs have a cosy relationship with ultras. This is what the government has to stop. In England, Chelsea hooligans used to exert quite an influence on their club. The English government, however, got rid of that.

The Italian government can get rid of the ultras if they really want to. The other thing that may be contributing to the lack of political will is that Italy didn't win Euro2012 rights. That would have pumped in a lot of money to refurbish the stadiums and introduce proper security measures.

But this was an incident away from the stadiums, which is even more distressing. What Atalanta fans did, however, was despicable. These people don't care about anything. It's all theater for them. If they really cared about morality and the state of the game, they would behave like human beings. I unreservedly want the ultras culture out of the Italian game.

it's for my own good, but I really don't know how am I managing to put my mouth shut

They didnt stop calcio indefinently did they?..i dont think so, but this was not calcio related, was it a reason to stop serie A games? Definently. This ahs caused many players to think about their futures in serie A, for example Kaka, who said he may qui Milan, because there is to much violence. I personally loved using flares, not in an innapropriate manner though of course, and because of peoples actions, we lost privelagges. This is the second time bad things have happened in the recent years, all i can say is that this is the final straw, before FIGC pulls the plug on serie A for quite a while.

Tjose ultas who attacked police and police stations are now being judger as TERRORIST in Italy!! Terrorist??? WTF??!!

Someone up there said he doesnt want the ultras. I have one question for you man, and I expect the answer: Have you ever been to the San Siro Milan game? If the answer is yes and you still dont want ultras, then you have no idea what football is... or maybe Canada is too far...

Well for the future safety of the fans and to cut down on the violence that seems to be synonymous with Italian football these days, we'll just have to do without those pretty coreos/designs. Yes it isn't ALL the ultras, but a significant number are ruining it for the good bunch that actually want to enjoy the game. If Italian football wants to improve its image then I'm sorry but this is a case where both the good guys and the bad guys will end up punished. Peter paying for Paul kind of thing. Harsh, but unavoidable.

Originally Posted by mrki

Tjose ultas who attacked police and police stations are now being judger as TERRORIST in Italy!! Terrorist??? WTF??!!

Someone up there said he doesnt want the ultras. I have one question for you man, and I expect the answer: Have you ever been to the San Siro Milan game? If the answer is yes and you still dont want ultras, then you have no idea what football is... or maybe Canada is too far...

You can say my name directly. This is not really an argument. It's just a way for you to minimize the argument. Next time if something in the world happens, and you disagree with it, maybe you should reserve judgment until you have been there, lived it, and breathed it. What a reductive world you must live in, in which instead of talking about world issues, you are presumably booking return tickets to all sorts of places around the world, so "you can experience it". If that is the case, I envy the time and money you have.

I could care less about choreos. Yeah they look cool. What I care about is a stadium that has families and people who are there to loudly cheer on their team. I honestly couldn't give a damn about ultras, who sing fascist chants and yell racist abuse amongst other things (or maybe in your world Atalanta and Verona ultras are champions of racial integration). Many people disagree with you. My friends who are straight from Italy are some of them. They go to nearly every game during the course of a year, and they have had enough also. Others who disagree with you are the star players in Serie A. Before you question their commitment, they have football in their blood. They live and breathe it.

Maybe your solution is a stadium with ultras running riot, as they piss all over Italian football's credibility and image. After all "NO TO CALCIO MODERNO!" is your mantra. Maybe you should also add "NO TO PROGRESS!"

Finally, to answer your question, no I have not been to the San Siro. You live in a country that is right next to Italy; I envy you--congratulations on being geographically privileged. However, I am going to Italy to live with my friend for a few weeks. Hopefully by then, people will have stopped dying over football and plexi glass will be allowed to remain in one piece. Hopefully, also by then, there will be Italian football...

Originally Posted by MIRZA

I must say Mirza these choreos are extremely impressive. I also must say that our ultras are well behaved.

But what about the other images. Do you want me to post Lazio choreos??