Banter 2009/2010

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Then, if you don't want to write tons of text to explain what you want to say (reading that, I personnally take it as a half-hidden way to say "you're so stupid, I need to explain many times the same thing"), two solutions, you can choose either one or the other:
- explain better
- go to a chatroom

Nothing half-hidden, believe me, it's just I begun discussion with ACM and then you just read my last post and entered discussion, which turned the other way.

As for Mourinho, Quaresma was great winger at Sporting, he just lost himself in a big club, just like Gilardino in Milan. Mourinho couldn't predict that. And Muntari, he was very good last season a regular starter, but it's seems he lost his motivation when Mourinho attacked him because his fasting. Muntari is a good player and when in form he can do the same job as Motta or Stankovic.

And for formations, it's isn't as simple as that. For example, 4-3-3 is just "rough" system, just a starting formation, there are various ways to make that system work for your players. It isn't about 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2, a coach is paid (actually overpaid) to know what we, ordinary people, don't know about tactics. I'm must mention Mourinho again, he made Eto'o work as a winger, Pandev too, Sneijder sometimes acts as a winger too (positions exchange), with strong tactics it's surely possible to make Dinho, Borri and Hunter work in 4-3-3. Hunter doesn't have quality to make width in attack so Leo should make him going to center, along with Borri, so Dinho stays left or moves into center, and other player, Seedorf possibly, runs from center to the right side to make width. That's just one solution.

Just look at Inter's goals against Barca. First goal: Eto'o runs with the ball too far right, Sneijder runs form his AM positon to left wing (defense is stretched), as Pandev enters in the middle from left wing, taking Dani Alves with him, ball comes to Milito, who's on his position, he looks up and as Alves is dragged into the middle by Pandev, Sneijder is all alone on the left side, and it's a simple finish. Second goal: Motta takes the ball off Xavi, passes it short to Pandev, Pandev quickly runs up through half-way line, it's a counter, Eto'o runs in the middle from right wing, he's now on the left of two-man attack, Milito is right, ball is passed to Milito, Eto'o is closed down in the middle/left, but Maicon is coming through the center and he's all alone, easy finish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjJvVmEYv2U

Just look at it. Both goals are great, but the first is a genius' tactical move. Pay attention where is Sneijder when he plays long ball to Eto'o and where is Pandev at that moment. I simply don't have words to describe a beauty of that move.

Originally Posted by Revolver

Nothing half-hidden, believe me, it's just I begun discussion with ACM and then you just read my last post and entered discussion, which turned the other way.

As for Mourinho, Quaresma was great winger at Sporting, he just lost himself in a big club, just like Gilardino in Milan. Mourinho couldn't predict that. And Muntari, he was very good last season a regular starter, but it's seems he lost his motivation when Mourinho attacked him because his fasting. Muntari is a good player and when in form he can do the same job as Motta or Stankovic.

And for formations, it's isn't as simple as that. For example, 4-3-3 is just "rough" system, just a starting formation, there are various ways to make that system work for your players. It isn't about 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2, a coach is paid (actually overpaid) to know what we, ordinary people, don't know about tactics. I'm must mention Mourinho again, he made Eto'o work as a winger, Pandev too, Sneijder sometimes acts as a winger too (positions exchange), with strong tactics it's surely possible to make Dinho, Borri and Hunter work in 4-3-3. Hunter doesn't have quality to make width in attack so Leo should make him going to center, along with Borri, so Dinho stays left or moves into center, and other player, Seedorf possibly, runs from center to the right side to make width. That's just one solution.

LOOOOOOOOL, he flopped at barca incase you don't know.

and again haters are gonna hate. if u think leonardo is overpaid then you are living on a different planet. milan problem is not tactial. what a weird life, milan fans are taking inter and mourinho as example. what a life, and what a fans

I think we should all remain calm over the direction of the club these days. I for one am taking a laid back attitude over these things. The thing is, everyone, and I am including Galliani and Berlusconi know how terrible the current plan of the club is. You quite simply can't force 8 youth team players into the first team and hope they all turn out to be great players. Especially since the youth players we have aren't exactly the new Messi or Ronaldos in the world to begin with. This team is going down the toilet for sure and everybody knows it.

What makes me calm about the whole situation is that I know Galliani and Berlusconi will get exactly what they deserve for doing this. In the business world, past glory means very very little to anyone. Keep living on past glories will get a person absolutely nowhere. Sure, Berlusconi can save a few million euros a year running this club like this, but as Newton said it "for every force, there is an equal and opposite force". All the money he saved through this will fly out the window again when the team performs poorly. Poor performance leads to decreased revenue and popularity; low popularity leads to low sponsorships; low sponsorship and revenue will then lead to decreased overall value of the team. What that means is that if we continue to play like this and go trophyless for another 3-4 years, Berlusconi will never be able to sell this team at the price he wanted. The millions he saved will become hundreds of millions he loses. When that happens, everything comes in full circle and I will be very very very happy to see Berlusconi get what he deserves. Be patient, and justice will prevail.

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

Yep, you can use it if you want.

Actually it's too long. I tried to cut it short, but then it doesn't make sense. Thanks anyway

Originally Posted by Revolver

And for formations, it's isn't as simple as that. For example, 4-3-3 is just "rough" system, just a starting formation, there are various ways to make that system work for your players. It isn't about 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2, a coach is paid (actually overpaid) to know what we, ordinary people, don't know about tactics. I'm must mention Mourinho again, he made Eto'o work as a winger, Pandev too, Sneijder sometimes acts as a winger too (positions exchange), with strong tactics it's surely possible to make Dinho, Borri and Hunter work in 4-3-3. Hunter doesn't have quality to make width in attack so Leo should make him going to center, along with Borri, so Dinho stays left or moves into center, and other player, Seedorf possibly, runs from center to the right side to make width. That's just one solution.

I'm going to avoid talking about Inter, as I've said what I wanted to regards to them and it's simply impossible to compare Inter to Milan right now. No one is saying that a formation is just 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2, in fact I've said on more than one occasion that Slavan Bilic put it quite nicely that in the modern game these numbers are somewhat irrelevant.

And no, it's extremely difficult to make Hunter, Borriello and Dinho work in a modern 4-3-3. If you make Hunter and Borri go central with Dinho on the left, then you need someone to come down the right to balance out the attack and stretch opponents. Leo DID do this to great success against Roma as Flamini pushed forward. However, for the system to succeed you need midfielders who are strong at running from deep, just like Flamini, and we don't have the depth for that.

Dinho also can only play central if he moves in from the left. Again, Leo managed to get Dinho to do this for a while, but Dinho himself hasn't been doing this frequently in recent weeks.

Dinho can't play centrally either, as he doesn't move enough to make space for himself and we lose our width. If he plays centrally, Leo's got to rely on the fullbacks and midfielders to push forward into wide areas. Our fullbacks, while useful this season aren't good enough to dominate a wing on their own. Both Abate and Antonini often need someone supporting them when they push up, which contrasts top level fullbacks like Maicon and Cafu in the past who can dominate a wing on their own. Our midfielders, again with the exception of Flamini, doesn't have the depth to have players push out into wide areas.

You suggested Seedorf takes up the role to push out into the right, which is impossible. Seedorf did it in the past when he played on the left of our midfield, but that was close to 5 years ago. Since then his workrate has dropped drastically and he doesn't have the physical capabilities to do such a physically demanding role. If we were to use him in that role, we'd certainly find our defence exposed and vulnerable. You just need to look at one of the matches against Samp or Palermo in the last two weeks. After 20-30 minutes, Seedorf can often be seen hunching over with hands on knees gasping for breath. This is in a role that's no where near as physically demanding as what you suggest.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

I'm going to avoid talking about Inter, as I've said what I wanted to regards to them and it's simply impossible to compare Inter to Milan right now. No one is saying that a formation is just 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2, in fact I've said on more than one occasion that Slavan Bilic put it quite nicely that in the modern game these numbers are somewhat irrelevant.

And no, it's extremely difficult to make Hunter, Borriello and Dinho work in a modern 4-3-3. If you make Hunter and Borri go central with Dinho on the left, then you need someone to come down the right to balance out the attack and stretch opponents. Leo DID do this to great success against Roma as Flamini pushed forward. However, for the system to succeed you need midfielders who are strong at running from deep, just like Flamini, and we don't have the depth for that.

Dinho also can only play central if he moves in from the left. Again, Leo managed to get Dinho to do this for a while, but Dinho himself hasn't been doing this frequently in recent weeks.

Dinho can't play centrally either, as he doesn't move enough to make space for himself and we lose our width. If he plays centrally, Leo's got to rely on the fullbacks and midfielders to push forward into wide areas. Our fullbacks, while useful this season aren't good enough to dominate a wing on their own. Both Abate and Antonini often need someone supporting them when they push up, which contrasts top level fullbacks like Maicon and Cafu in the past who can dominate a wing on their own. Our midfielders, again with the exception of Flamini, doesn't have the depth to have players push out into wide areas.

You suggested Seedorf takes up the role to push out into the right, which is impossible. Seedorf did it in the past when he played on the left of our midfield, but that was close to 5 years ago. Since then his workrate has dropped drastically and he doesn't have the physical capabilities to do such a physically demanding role. If we were to use him in that role, we'd certainly find our defence exposed and vulnerable. You just need to look at one of the matches against Samp or Palermo in the last two weeks. After 20-30 minutes, Seedorf can often be seen hunching over with hands on knees gasping for breath. This is in a role that's no where near as physically demanding as what you suggest.

I agree with you, but I've never said it's that simple to make the system work. Actually it's very hard to make 4-3-3 work with Dinho, Borri and Hunter, you agreed with that. So I don't know why Leo is persistent in doing that. You're right when you say we can't compare with Inter, if you saw the first goal, we could never do that because our forward players lack movement. Three of four of them (Dinho, Seedorf and Borri) are static. It's a shame we didn't took Sneijder, he was perfect for our system.

Originally Posted by Revolver

Nothing half-hidden, believe me, it's just I begun discussion with ACM and then you just read my last post and entered discussion, which turned the other way.

Oh ok, sorry, I'm going to ask to the mods to create a private thread for your discussions ...

http://www.tuttomercatoweb.com/milan...dnotizia=23712

Milan interested in Kroldrup (end of contract).
I'm not a fan, but he's still better than Astori for example ...

Tiny bastard Buonanotte from River Plate is already again helping his team after his horrible accident, scoring yesterday after coming from the bench:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2qE_8mW0G4

He has the best left foot in whole Argentina.



He is speedy, skilled, knows how to pass and to score, someone needs to sign him from Milan !

So Leo is 99% gone and Milan most likely won't be spending any money.
Personally, post WC is always the most inflated price for players, thus I doubt Berlu will be spending any money this summer.

Can't wait for next year, as I really can't wait to see the kids begin their career in AC MILAN.

You all talk about these 8 Primavera players coming in first team next year ... that's not true, it's unreal and even if it was real, give a source please, because I never read such a thing !!

On TMW I think, they were claiming that our next coach would be Spalletti and that Spalletti wants Ederson in Milan.

Each day, a new rumour ...

Originally Posted by Revolver

I agree with you, but I've never said it's that simple to make the system work. Actually it's very hard to make 4-3-3 work with Dinho, Borri and Hunter, you agreed with that. So I don't know why Leo is persistent in doing that. You're right when you say we can't compare with Inter, if you saw the first goal, we could never do that because our forward players lack movement. Three of four of them (Dinho, Seedorf and Borri) are static. It's a shame we didn't took Sneijder, he was perfect for our system.

and you finally conceded that our players are bad and can't run and Leo can't do anything about it, and no can Mourinho or any world class coach with this players.

Originally Posted by Revolver

It's a shame we didn't took Sneijder, he was perfect for our system.

The days when we could just take the players we wanted is over. It's probably an easy option for most players to go to Inter instead of Milan now. Ambitions, economy, competitiveness of the squad and so on... Sad to say, but right now it's the brutal truth.

If Sneijder came then Seedorf couldnt play. Remember, Gourcuff couldnt be guaranteed first 11 coz we have sooo many "campioni" ( who are hendicaped half-players like Seedorf, Pirlo, Zambrotta etc.). And not forget super-"new born" Dinho who played 15-17 good games per year when he thought he'd go to the WC, after that he stopped running.

Seeing all our overpayed players trying to run yesterday again made me laugh. And they are talking how they dont want their wages to be cutten down to 4mln... hahahahaha!! My god...

Anyway, Krasic said he was always a Milan fan as well as Dzeko and he'd like him and Dzeko to play together for Milan as he saw vs Wolfsburg that Dzeko is a hell of a player.

Sorry Miloš, you are not free.

Other news: from now on we can expect a new Juve with Agnielli family at helm once again and with Moggi co-working on mercato as new president is a close friend of his as Moggi himself said.

Benitez, according to papers, sayd ok to Juve and new mercato gives him 80mln ( plus money from sold players ) with Mascherano, Kuyt and Torres following him from L'pool.

I'd really hate to see Torres in Juve, and if there is a chance ( again ) to buy him its now!

Originally Posted by mrki

Other news: from now on we can expect a new Juve with Agnielli family at helm once again and with Moggi co-working on mercato as new president is a close friend of his as Moggi himself said.

Benitez, according to papers, sayd ok to Juve and new mercato gives him 80mln ( plus money from sold players ) with Mascherano, Kuyt and Torres following him from L'pool.

I'd really hate to see Torres in Juve, and if there is a chance ( again ) to buy him its now!

Don't worry, we will have our shot at him by year 2020.