Summer Mercato 2010

Originally Posted by brk

Actually 442 isn't viable anymore, since it has only three bands, 4XX and not four, 4XXX. You can't play with three anymore because of the intense physicality of professional football nowadays. Playing against a team with four bands means you have less room to move and they just pummel you into submission; meaning the big gap between attack and midfield, or midfield and defense is too much that players become isolated.

When people say 433, they don't mean it literally, meaning that it's a flat 3 in the middle or attack. It's usually just shorthand for 4312 or 4231. The difference is that you don't have three lines of players anymore, but four. The variant of the 442 that most closely resembles that classic formation is a 4411, and that's considered to be an ultra defensive formation nowadays.

we played for a long time 4-3-2-1 Christmas Tree under Carlito...

That's sort of what we're doing now... it's a not a 4-3-3.. the 3 up top are not all forward.. Ronaldinho floats somehwhere between mid and forward..he cuts in as well..so I would not say 4-3-3...

Probably Barca plays the most like a 4-3-3 but everyone gets into attack in that team..they play 1 touch and everyone's always moving out of their positions....

I'd say the formation we used against Lecce should be our GO_TO standard formation. Then, we can also do a 4=2-3-1 when we need goals or against lesser teams...

Robinho can play in Ronaldinho or Pato's positions..while Pato can play in Ibra's if he's out. Simple as that. That will be the way they play.

Pirlo will play in that formation just like he did against Lecce and also Seedorf a lot..

If we play a 4-2-3-1 (Please everyone stop saying 4-2-4)

Then,,,, we'll play like this:

Bonera----Nesta--T. Silva----Antonini
----------Flamini--Ambrosini/Gattuso-
Pato----------RObinho---------ROnaldinho
---------------Ibra---------------------

Originally Posted by slifersd

Don't take this the wrong way, but when the hell did Antonelli and Antonini became great players? Both of these guys are very good rotation players who can be effective as a starter but if you are talking great, you are comparing them to the likes of Evra, Lahm, Maicon and Alves, and they both suck big time when compared to those guys.

I didn't say they are great, did I? But comparing them to that time, when almost nobody here even heard of them, and now, they did make a pretty good progress, right?

I cant wait for the Cesena match , I honestly believe in that match we will see RO-IB-RO-PA they are one of the weakest teams to have come up in a long time and we will beat them , Im never that confident about a victory in Serie A but I am about this one , Im happy we have Papa as he will give Nesta the break he needs in some games Yepes aswell .The fantastic 4 will not play in all games but against teams like Cesena Lecce Brescia Cagliari Bologna and Inter(thats correct pezzo di merda) they should as the will have way to much in attack and with Pirlo and Boateng/Flams/Ambro and A rb Silva Nesta/whoever and Antonini we will win.

Originally posted by Geotav

Bold amounts of money: ?

Anyway, in Italy, there is no player who is like Pirlo nowadays. And you don't find that kind of player each time in the same country. They are few in Europe to have a good level/great level ...

Xavi is the guy who is the most like Pirlo, even if he plays a bit more in midfield and goes forward more often. In Auxerre, you have Pedretti who is the French version of Pirlo (you'll see when we'll play Auxerre). And then, I don't know any other player for this role.

Anyway, I'm not sure trying to replace Pirlo is the solution for the future. We should maybe try to change the way we play. Milan was Milan before Pirlo, I don't understand why we should now get a new Pirlo to still be Milan when he'll leave/retire ?

I don't expect a new pirlo from poli,pirlo is so unique. I expect poli might become a cambiaso type of player,all around skill set for defensive midfield,the morden definition for this position.
__________________

Originally Posted by Jay Crisp

I cant wait for the Cesena match , I honestly believe in that match we will see RO-IB-RO-PA they are one of the weakest teams to have come up in a long time and we will beat them , Im never that confident about a victory in Serie A but I am about this one , Im happy we have Papa as he will give Nesta the break he needs in some games Yepes aswell .The fantastic 4 will not play in all games but against teams like Cesena Lecce Brescia Cagliari Bologna and Inter(thats correct pezzo di merda) they should as the will have way to much in attack and with Pirlo and Boateng/Flams/Ambro and A rb Silva Nesta/whoever and Antonini we will win.

It's an away game and tickets are sold out so the fans will be cheering all game. It's not that easy. Cesena aren't as bad as you think, either. They have some good players and gave Roma a few scares. We definitely won't be seeing the four from the start, I can guarantee that.

apparently were interested in both poli and palombo.. 10m for palombo and an a pparent 15m bid for poli should be enough to bring both in.. who would we sell? unless berlu is up for spending another 25m :S apparently in the article on goal it said that galliani is willing to spend the 15m on poli it would be great to see them two and prince boateng and flamini playing in the midfield, we'd have a completely rejuvinated team...

btw i feel we dont bring up merkel and verdi enough.. they have good potentials in both of them, merkel could be a good replacement in midfield, i feel we only need one more good fullback and one more midfielder.. id be very happy with jjust poli and a rb

Brasileiro - What do you know about this Joao Pedro guy, who came from Atletico Mineiro to Palermo?
He is 18 years old and Zamparini said he could be a "new Kaka"...
How do you compare him with another 18 years old talent like Coutinho?

Do you know any other football talents in Brazil who could come in cheap and could turn to be a star?
I know two guys, Ganso and Neymar, but they are extremely expensive, also Robinho was very expensive when he left Brazil!

We bought Kaka for almost nothing, Inter bought Coutinho for nothing too, we should try to find talents, who could cost us less than the first two mentioned!

I know Pato cost us a lot 4 years ago, how can it happen some guys like Kaka, Coutinho cost much less than the others and they are still in the same level and have the same impact?!

In my opinion, this is all timing, we should steal players before there is so much hype around them!!!

Originally Posted by Revolver

Sacchi's 4-4-2 was THE formation. It was flawless. It's not about formation, it's about how you fit the players in it and how you transform it. For example, Sacchi had 4-4-2, but it was more like 4-3-1-2. He actually invented trequartista position in 4-4-2. It's not widely known that Donadoni was a prototype of 4-4-2 trequartista (not a winger like goal.crap says). When full backs pushed up (also first time used expression "full back"), along with one CM (Rijkaard), with the other CM (Don Carlo) and side midfielder (Colombo/Evani) covering, he had something like 2-2-4-2. Also with Baresi pushing up and full backs staying to cover, it could be like 3-4-1-2, or even 3-4-3.
Actually in Sacchi's team, every player could adapt for any position, no matter where he's found in a moment of time. He's famous to say that in his team regista (deep-lying play) was whoever had the ball.
Other coaches started to use trequartista's regularly sometimes in '95 or '96, almost 10 years after Sacchi implemented it. Sacchi was WAY beyond his time, actually he's even beyond this time.
Every Milan fan should watch Steaua finals, it's available on Internet and it's the best game I've ever saw from one team, even better than one from Capello's team against Barcelona. It's just amazing how they killed second best team in the world in only 45 minutes. If Capello was/is known to work every tinny tactical detail into perfection, Sacchi actually didn't had to do it because his foundation was so good.

You're right, but 20 years has passed and Milan at that time had the strongest players, played the most inovative strategy and 4-4-2 was just the number in paper, not exact formation, as you said. We were very dynamic.

4-4-2 of Juve 2004-2006 was pure 442 with 1 legendary GK, 2 worldclass CBs & DMs who played most of the matches, 2 tireless wingers support 2 tall strikers. It was the best static 4-4-2 I saw in recent years but they were not that invicible in CL.

Sacchi's time was to remembered but even he himself was not too successful with Italy and other teams. So I think the formation & strategy must suit the players.

Dinho, Pato, Binho, Ibra are not just one-dimensional players, so a 4-4-2 might not suit them.

Originally Posted by Aficio

You're right, but 20 years has passed and Milan at that time had the strongest players, played the most inovative strategy and 4-4-2 was just the number in paper, not exact formation, as you said. We were very dynamic.

4-4-2 of Juve 2004-2006 was pure 442 with 1 legendary GK, 2 worldclass CBs & DMs who played most of the matches, 2 tireless wingers support 2 tall strikers. It was the best static 4-4-2 I saw in recent years but they were not that invicible in CL.

Sacchi's time was to remembered but even he himself was not too successful with Italy and other teams. So I think the formation & strategy must suit the players.

Dinho, Pato, Binho, Ibra are not just one-dimensional players, so a 4-4-2 might not suit them.

Italy made to WC finals with him, only to lose on penalties, even when he was without some very important players (Tassotti, Baresi) and even when he had only one striker in form (out of four). Sacchi couldn't made it in some teams because he always wanted to play with team players, with complete players, not specialists... He tried almost 50 players before 94 WC only to take 23 of them. Nowdays football is all about specialists. Now you have Ibra and Ronaldinho who don't want to track back (why bother?!) so you need Flamini. But, you can't play anything with Flamini because all he can do and all he's willing to do is to pass it to the closest teammate. Furthermore, when you have specialist, what happens?! You close Pirlo and there is no Milan. That's why I said Sacchi is even beyond this time.

Agree with Sacchi is beyond his time.
But disagree with footballer becoming specialists. I think only Milan have those players. When you look at all other strong teams, their midfielders are pretty much all box-box and can both defend and attack. While how good they are at it is a different story, but when you look at the midfield of Milan, only Flamini, Ambro and Boateng qualifies as two way midfielders. Seedorf can if he tracks back, but Pirlo and Gattuso ain't. I think if anything, footballers are becoming more well rounded players than just concentrating on one aspect of the game and try to be best at it.
I would not rank Ibra as a specialist, as his jobs is to score goals and create scoring chances for others and not track back and defend. Even MVB did not tracks back during Sacchi days. I mean, Ibra is probably the most complete striker(beside his big game flop thing), as he can dribble pass u, shoot with both feet, act as target man and got some speed. As for Dinho, I think he is who he is, he is probably the best at what he does. Unless you can reach the level of Dinho, you really can't play like him and get away with it, same goes for Pirlo and Gattuso, they are specialist in their own right, but unless someone can reach the level that they once were, you just can't rely on that and gets into a good team.

Geo, What do you think about Clerc? i think that he is free agent and however linked with us lately much.

Originally Posted by Revolver

Italy made to WC finals with him, only to lose on penalties, even when he was without some very important players (Tassotti, Baresi) and even when he had only one striker in form (out of four). Sacchi couldn't made it in some teams because he always wanted to play with team players, with complete players, not specialists... He tried almost 50 players before 94 WC only to take 23 of them. Nowdays football is all about specialists. Now you have Ibra and Ronaldinho who don't want to track back (why bother?!) so you need Flamini. But, you can't play anything with Flamini because all he can do and all he's willing to do is to pass it to the closest teammate. Furthermore, when you have specialist, what happens?! You close Pirlo and there is no Milan. That's why I said Sacchi is even beyond this time.

I didn's play down Sacchi's idea, my point is you need players to work for your idea or your idea must suit your current players.

Italy 94 was Milan-Italy, the Great Milan which he's just created, so he didn't face many problems, but Italy 96 was different and his experiements failed miserably. Sacchi, IMO, is one of the most inovative & respectable strategist, but he just couldn't always force the players play like he want. Even his comeback at Milan was fruitless.

The coaches who understand his idea and apply it practially like Capello or Mourinho are more successful than him. And as a fan, I want coaches like them for Milan.

Allegri could be the one. This man studied about Milan a lot and know great deal about strategy. You want complete players? He made Seedorf a more complete midfielder, and even Gattuso is better with ball now. Dinho gains motivation and player more central, more active under his guidance. Milan now also play more dynamic and unpredictable. These make me think Ibra, Binho & Boateng could be very useful, not just in paper, but for a "new" Milan, which means they will be more complete, too.

Pirlo can't be more complete, this guy is already a complete midfielder, IMO. Something like speed, strength he can't learn to be better, but he can defend his way and play his best for Milan. However, this Milan will depend less on him.

I just wanted to say 4-4-2 is not something Milan should play, but talking about Sacchi's era bring good memories

Originally Posted by Aficio

I didn's play down Sacchi's idea, my point is you need players to work for your idea or your idea must suit your current players.

Italy 94 was Milan-Italy, the Great Milan which he's just created, so he didn't face many problems, but Italy 96 was different and his experiements failed miserably. Sacchi, IMO, is one of the most inovative & respectable strategist, but he just couldn't always force the players play like he want. Even his comeback at Milan was fruitless.

The coaches who understand his idea and apply it practially like Capello or Mourinho are more successful than him. And as a fan, I want coaches like them for Milan.

Allegri could be the one. This man studied about Milan a lot and know great deal about strategy. You want complete players? He made Seedorf a more complete midfielder, and even Gattuso is better with ball now. Dinho gains motivation and player more central, more active under his guidance. Milan now also play more dynamic and unpredictable. These make me think Ibra, Binho & Boateng could be very useful, not just in paper, but for a "new" Milan, which means they will be more complete, too.

Pirlo can't be more complete, this guy is already a complete midfielder, IMO. Something like speed, strength he can't learn to be better, but he can defend his way and play his best for Milan. However, this Milan will depend less on him.

I just wanted to say 4-4-2 is not something Milan should play, but talking about Sacchi's era bring good memories

Dude, we have only played 1 game

with regards to playing the fantastic 4 against Brescia, i don't think we will, if i remember correctly our clubs are very close almost like a brother club to us, if my mind is correct and not made this up i think we will show them some recpect and just go out to beat them not completeley humiliate them like we tried to do to LEcce and hopefully Cesena.

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

Agree with Sacchi is beyond his time.
But disagree with footballer becoming specialists. I think only Milan have those players. When you look at all other strong teams, their midfielders are pretty much all box-box and can both defend and attack. While how good they are at it is a different story, but when you look at the midfield of Milan, only Flamini, Ambro and Boateng qualifies as two way midfielders. Seedorf can if he tracks back, but Pirlo and Gattuso ain't. I think if anything, footballers are becoming more well rounded players than just concentrating on one aspect of the game and try to be best at it.
I would not rank Ibra as a specialist, as his jobs is to score goals and create scoring chances for others and not track back and defend. Even MVB did not tracks back during Sacchi days. I mean, Ibra is probably the most complete striker(beside his big game flop thing), as he can dribble pass u, shoot with both feet, act as target man and got some speed. As for Dinho, I think he is who he is, he is probably the best at what he does. Unless you can reach the level of Dinho, you really can't play like him and get away with it, same goes for Pirlo and Gattuso, they are specialist in their own right, but unless someone can reach the level that they once were, you just can't rely on that and gets into a good team.

No, I don't think "specialist" like a player can't attack and defend. A specialist like he can play just what his position is and nothing more. Put Flamini, say, to create one attack just ONE. Can't happen in a million years. Then, let Abbiati throw the ball to Antonini, what he'll do? He'll pass it to Pirlo or T. Silva, he doesn't have an idea or even doesn't want to think what else to do with the ball. Bonera on the other side - the same thing. We have CBs who can do something with the ball which isn't just pass it to the nearest teammate, T. Silva and Sokratis both have ideas to come up with the ball or to play it long.

Aficio, I don't agree, Italy 94 wasn't Milan. Tassotti almost didn't played at all, Baresi played just two games. Benarrivo, Apolloni and Mussi were FAR behind Milan's level. Dino Baggio was miles away from Rijkaard. Nicola Berti was the worst player in Italian first 11 both in 90 and in 94. Evani was too old.

Then again he failed in Milan but Capello failed too, we were even worse with him. It has all to do with our aging defense. We were buying attackers and defense became too old, but that's another topic.