All posts re: the Italian Football Scandal (Moggipoli)

from www.soccernet.com

yea..........the 29th tittle will be with juve,,,,but nit long before they 29 n 28tittle been given to milan...hahahah

Juventus win 29th title as investigations go on

MILAN, May 14 (Reuters) - Juventus won their 29th Italian league title with a 2-0 final day victory over Reggina on Sunday, assuring the club of a second successive `scudetto'.


Fabio Capello's side finished the season three points ahead of second-placed AC Milan who won 2-1 at home to AS Roma.

Fiorentina's 2-0 win over Chievo assured the Florence club of fourth place and a spot in the qualifying round of next season's Champions League along with third-placed Inter Milan.

Juve and Milan will go straight into the group stage of the Champions League -- unless ongoing match-fixing investigations result in a change to the final league table.

Champions Juve are facing a series of investigations into allegations of match-fixing and, if found guilty, could be stripped of their last two titles and demoted to Serie B.

Capello said he was proud of his team's achievement and urged people to wait before making judgements on the various investigations into the game.

'For two years I have worked with this team, for two years the players have tried to do their best. We have been on top for 76 games and we have our heads held high and deserve this title. We are proud,' Capello said before turning to the scandal.

'We have to wait, it is right to wait before making all the judgements,' said the Juventus coach.

The scandal which has rocked Italian football has focused on telephone intercepts from last season featuring discussions about refereeing appointments between Juventus general manager Luciano Moggi and football federation officials.

is there any team been relegated from serial a before cox of match fixing??

But maybe it hard to see juve been relegated as moggi retired already

After reading the documents regarding Milan's interceptions i can tell all Milan fans that there's absoultely nothing or close to nothing against Milan (according to the elements come to our attention so far).

We don't risk at all to be relegated, i can state this with absolute certainty, and we have no direct responsibility cause nobody of the Milan board is involved, nobody who legally represents the club , while the other clubs have the Gen directors, presidents and the highest personalities of their board involved. This rules out the chance to have a direct criminal responsibility from the club, and the therefore consequent DIRECT RESPONSIBILITY, which is the condition to be relegated.

From another point of view, there can be (but i believe our lawyers will destroy this hypotetical scenario) a sportive responsibility which means to have points dropped in the final table. In this scenario there's no need to have a direct responsibility , but just a STRICT LIABILITY from the club, due to a responsibility of acts made by their members or players or (sometimes) fans.. Strcit liability works when , for ex. , Inter fans threw the flares into the pitch. The club gets responsible regardless of a personal responsibility.

I remark that at worst we risk some points dropped, an "afflictive measure" which means that we could authomatically put behind Inter or behind the fourth club (out of CL) in the table,but i'm confident our lawyers will destroy a very weak charge.
I described the worst scenario, but you'll see that we'll get out of this scandal smoothly, because there's nothing against us, and very confuse as well (when evidences are confused the beneficiary is always the charged part)

Originally Posted by Tony 29

If Kaka kills his neighbours will you send Milan to Serie B ?
About all the other accusations..if Moggi is guilty, then Juve should be sent to Serie B, but come on, you can't blame the club Juventus for Moggi locking Paparesta

Juve as a club can't do anything. It is their executives that do everything and the club is responsible for their actions. Moggi being one of the most important.

You know what is starting to p!ss me off is the leak itself. They say the investigation has been going on for months. Once the story was leaked to the public, it also informed anyone involved to quickly hide any sort of paper trail, evidence and what not. Which is why they only have wiretap transcripts. Why hasnt there been indictments, arrests, or seizure of records from the businesses, homes, of suspected perpetrators? Have the police seized any computers from Moggi's office or home???
We cannot deny the fact that the leak went and sabotaged the investigation. It also sabotaged the seeking of justice according to the Rule of Law. With this leak the only thing is the judgement of public opinion. Juve are burned at the stake but no one will be able to establish the motive. Without knowing what the motive is or was, the problem will still exist in Serie A. PROBLEM NOT SOLVED. I dont know what court of law can convict anyone without motive. You can have all the supposed evidence that a crime may have occured, but you cant get a conviction of any sort without a substantiated motive.
We need to also get to the bottom of who the hell went and made the leak to the press!

ANSA) - ROMA, 15 MAG - Luciano Moggi, dg dimissionario della Juventus, e' nella caserma dei carabinieri di Roma, dove viene ascoltato dai pm di Napoli. Al termine della verbalizzazione, Moggi e' sottoposto alle domande dei pm Filippo Beatrice e Giuseppe Narducci. Ieri sera i legali avevano annunciato che Moggi non si sarebbe avvalso della facolta' di non rispondere. Cinque le ipotesi di reato contestate: associazione per delinquere, sequestro di persona, minaccia, frode sportiva e peculato.

as I understood moggi wil not use the right of being silent , so he will speak up, its interesting with what kind of lies will he emmerge this time

BlackRedInferno, can you please clarify to us the milan situation more.
and if there is going to be point deduction will we get the title or will it be to inter?

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY WILL WE PARTICPATE IN CL?

Thank you

I believe we are cleaner then the lazyo 0 roma 0 teams.
or the juventus moggi team.
or the viola della valle corruption.

We even been dropped of points against siena.

Originally Posted by sheva_4ever

BlackRedInferno, can you please clarify to us the milan situation more.
and if there is going to be point deduction will we get the title or will it be to inter?

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY WILL WE PARTICPATE IN CL?

Thank you

Well, nothing is sure at this moment, if Milan will lost more than 10 points due to penalization for Meani phone calls, then title will go to Inter, assuming Juve will be considered guilty of direct responsibility and relegated to serie B (this is not sure, but is very likely). If Milan will not be considered guilty then we will get title. About CL maybe that because of penalization Milan will not partecipate to CL next year, it depends on how many points Milan will lose.

Originally Posted by Kui

You know what is starting to p!ss me off is the leak itself. They say the investigation has been going on for months. Once the story was leaked to the public, it also informed anyone involved to quickly hide any sort of paper trail, evidence and what not. Which is why they only have wiretap transcripts. Why hasnt there been indictments, arrests, or seizure of records from the businesses, homes, of suspected perpetrators? Have the police seized any computers from Moggi's office or home???
We cannot deny the fact that the leak went and sabotaged the investigation. It also sabotaged the seeking of justice according to the Rule of Law. With this leak the only thing is the judgement of public opinion. Juve are burned at the stake but no one will be able to establish the motive. Without knowing what the motive is or was, the problem will still exist in Serie A. PROBLEM NOT SOLVED. I dont know what court of law can convict anyone without motive. You can have all the supposed evidence that a crime may have occured, but you cant get a conviction of any sort without a substantiated motive.
We need to also get to the bottom of who the hell went and made the leak to the press!

I see your point but doubt that in cases like these there ever was much hope of getting your hands on paper, hard-copy docs or any proof of that nature. I mean, this is not one of those corporate crimes that we have seeing as of late, now that's something you need to have docs for, even if we are speaking of doing shady business.
here in this case, there is hardly a reason to leave any paper trail ... all you need is words coming from one guy's mouth into another guy's ears and the business is all set, no need for contracts, no need for keeping ballances so that you show them to Juve's board of directors or anything like that.
So, all in all, phone taps like these are probably your best proof after a signed confession from one or all of those involved.

Well lookin at standing... i see they have to take 26 points out of us to end out of cl.

Originally Posted by Kui

You know what is starting to p!ss me off is the leak itself. They say the investigation has been going on for months. Once the story was leaked to the public, it also informed anyone involved to quickly hide any sort of paper trail, evidence and what not. Which is why they only have wiretap transcripts. Why hasnt there been indictments, arrests, or seizure of records from the businesses, homes, of suspected perpetrators? Have the police seized any computers from Moggi's office or home???
We cannot deny the fact that the leak went and sabotaged the investigation. It also sabotaged the seeking of justice according to the Rule of Law. With this leak the only thing is the judgement of public opinion. Juve are burned at the stake but no one will be able to establish the motive. Without knowing what the motive is or was, the problem will still exist in Serie A. PROBLEM NOT SOLVED. I dont know what court of law can convict anyone without motive. You can have all the supposed evidence that a crime may have occured, but you cant get a conviction of any sort without a substantiated motive.
We need to also get to the bottom of who the hell went and made the leak to the press!

Wiretap are enough to accuse Moggi and company, and first interrogations seems to confirm prosecutor hypotesis, then FIGC and referee association was searched for evidence. This is about penal law.
About sport law, there is need of less evidence and wiretap seems to be enough to punish Juventus.

It seems Moggi and his friend fixed ten more matches in 2004-2005 season, including Milan-Juventus and Fiorentina-Milan

Originally Posted by BlackRedInferno

It seems Moggi and his friend fixed ten more matches, including Milan-Juventus and Fiorentina-Milan

Yeah I just read that too
Moggi!

Man we deserve to get ++++ points and not points deducted.

We been robbed.