Milan Want Ronaldinho

I wonder why so much emphasis has been put on Ronaldinho's ability to be a success in Italy. The view here from some seems to be that he spends too much time on the ball in Spain and that this will work against him when/if he comes here as that age old adage of 'You get less time on the ball in Italy' comes into play

If he is such a great player, which he obviously is, then the great players can adapt. If his game needs to be more direct and more efficient, then this is what it'll become. He's an intelligent man, he'll be able to see what works and what doesn't so i'm sure that he can change the way he plays if it's necessary and i'm sure Kaka will be on hand to give him some tips about settling into the Italian game if he needs any.

Great players make time and space on the ball, he is a great player, he'll be fine here. Yes his game may well have to be different and yes he may be a different Ronaldinho in Italy to the Ronaldinho in Spain, but given the right environment and settings i'm sure he'll be a success.

The only things i find a little worrisome is his apparent slacking in training (see his weight gain) and his current lack of motivation. As already mentioned, how long before the initial euphoria wears off? That said, every player has their peaks and troughs, he can't always be beating 10 players and scoring from 30 yards every game week in week out. Also the 'party boy' thing could be a problem, he and Ronaldo together could lead to late nights. One look at Adriano's discotheqing can see the problems it can lead to.

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

I wonder why so much emphasis has been put on Ronaldinho's ability to be a success in Italy. The view here from some seems to be that he spends too much time on the ball in Spain and that this will work against him when/if he comes here as that age old adage of 'You get less time on the ball in Italy' comes into play

because that's what matters in the end, Jim ... what concerns Milan is how Dinho would perform in Serie A, not what he's already done/achieved in Spain. We shouldn't care how great a player he's been for Barca but how he would perfom at Milan ... something Chelski fans these days know a bit too much about.

If he is such a great player, which he obviously is, then the great players can adapt. If his game needs to be more direct and more efficient, then this is what it'll become. He's an intelligent man, he'll be able to see what works and what doesn't so i'm sure that he can change the way he plays if it's necessary and i'm sure Kaka will be on hand to give him some tips about settling into the Italian game if he needs any.

Great players make time and space on the ball, he is a great player, he'll be fine here. Yes his game may well have to be different and yes he may be a different Ronaldinho in Italy to the Ronaldinho in Spain, but given the right environment and settings i'm sure he'll be a success.

well, our idea of Dinho as a great player was developed predominantly on what he's done in his time at Barca in Spain ... not on his ability to adapt his football to whatever conditions he finds himself in ... whether he is indeed the type of great player you portrayed is more or less yet to be seen.

The only things i find a little worrisome is his apparent slacking in training (see his weight gain) and his current lack of motivation. As already mentioned, how long before the initial euphoria wears off? That said, every player has their peaks and troughs, he can't always be beating 10 players and scoring from 30 yards every game week in week out. Also the 'party boy' thing could be a problem, he and Ronaldo together could lead to late nights. One look at Adriano's discotheqing can see the problems it can lead to.

I guess we would safe in the first 1-2 years when it comes to problems with too much samba parting on the team ... after that, however, it may well become a real problem, and I am not sure a huge investment of 70+ mil could be paid off in just 1-2 years.

Originally Posted by mrki

Ronaldinho is a football genious, peroid. EVERY TEAM needs him ,every single team in the world. So does Milan. If he arrives in Milan he will play AM alongside KAka', and with Ronaldo up front, that is the idea of the new Milan. Something like Ronaldinho-Eto'o-Messi. Only better
Now, that is all super, but there needs to be some serious backup behind that. Gattuso, Pirlo, Ambrosini, Gourcuff...not enough. But Milan is showing serious tendences for diarra, Camoranesi ... And that would be simply brilliant.
Yes, our defence needs rebuilding, but not more than 2 players. Nesta, Kaladze, Maldini ,Bonera are just fine on CB, Serginho will be back for another year, and Oddo will adopt. Maybe one class player like Zambrotta could be usefull as he can play both flanks. So, with only 3 players we would have perfect team, GK is still open quastion. But no doubt that, if he wants to, Berlusconi can get whoever he wants. WHOEVER....

If you have some concerns about Ronaldinho, just relax, if he arrives it will be just fine!

Finally somebody with common sence....

whether he is indeed the type of great player you portrayed is more or less yet to be seen.

So in that case Zlat why is Zidane considered such a great footballer? He moved from France to Italy and then all his success was based on what he did in Italy before moving onto Spain. Zidane was seen as a great player before he left for Espania so why should it not be the same for Ronaldinho? Why can't he be considered as a great player? Both won the World Cup, both influence their team hugely, both won the league, not sure if Zidane won the CL with Juventus but obviously it's something Ronaldinho has won, both have won players of the year type awards ... all this and the fact most managers, players and ex players around seem to think he's a great player right now indicate he is more than likely a player who can adapt his game to suit Italy. I will not say a certainty as nothing is ever gauranteed.

Before anyone starts, i'm not comparing them as types of players or anything in that mold, just comparing them in the way their careers have gone. So please don't use anything like "well he played in Italy where he had less time on the ball which meant he had bags of time on the ball in Spain where it's not pressured" ... i really couldn't take something like that.

Originally Posted by milanista mosta

Finally somebody with common sence....

or more like an idealist with a little bit of naive flavor of enthusiasm to his judgement ... romantic words that make people dream ... if only dreams were real

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

So in that case Zlat why is Zidane considered such a great footballer? He moved from France to Italy and then all his success was based on what he did in Italy before moving onto Spain. Zidane was seen as a great player before he left for Espania so why should it not be the same for Ronaldinho? Why can't he be considered as a great player? Both won the World Cup, both influence their team hugely, both won the league, not sure if Zidane won the CL with Juventus but obviously it's something Ronaldinho has won, both have won players of the year type awards ... all this and the fact most managers, players and ex players around seem to think he's a great player right now indicate he is more than likely a player who can adapt his game to suit Italy. I will not say a certainty as nothing is ever gauranteed.

Jim, you are twisting my words bro ... you are the one who assumed that any great player should be able to addapt his football to whatever conditions he found himself in ... what I said is that it's is yet to be seen if Dinho is indeed the TYPE of great player YOU described, because he is yet to prove himself in aleague other than La Liga.
If however your understanding of a great player is one who MUST be able to addapt, then I guess it is yet to be seen if Dinho is indeed someone who meets these requirements and can be called a great player ... in that sense.

As for Zidane, the man made it in Italy when Italian teams were easily the best in Europe ... what did we really expect of him when he moved to a league where attacking midfielders and forwards find it even easier to operate? So, I guess Zidane does fit your own description of what a great player is all about ... Dinho, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Before anyone starts, i'm not comparing them as types of players or anything in that mold, just comparing them in the way their careers have gone. So please don't use anything like "well he played in Italy where he had less time on the ball which meant he had bags of time on the ball in Spain where it's not pressured" ... i really couldn't take something like that.

I am sorry Jim but I guess I have to because that's exactly where the key to the coffin is ... if you don't like it, then I am afraid you will be turning your back on a key moment when it comes to why some players succeed after moving to a dif league, while others don't.

With Dinho comming to Italy not only Milan but all Milan's opponents may benefit from it. Most of the players in Europe would like to, if not to play with him, at least to play and compete against him.
Such players like Dinho and Ronaldo are what's needed for serie A to again become interesting as it was.

So, it's pretty obvious that Dinho with his name only will bring a lot of good things to Milan and Italy, like Zidane, Figo and Ronaldo did with La Liga and Real Madrid.
But what's most important thing for Milan fans ( who won't benefit at all if their team is the most reachest in the world and most popular in Asia, as Real M. is) is will Dinho's arival bring trophies and success ?

Real Madrid is an example par excellence how the effect from having the biggest stars in the football world can be 100% oposite of what was expected in the beggining.

I'm on Zlatanov's side regarding this matter.
I was always against these world record crazy purchases. +70 M for any player is pushing it. If Buffon, Zambrotta, Ribery, Abidal and Camoranesi can come for the same amount of money, only a Massimo Moratti type could chose one single player instead of 5 world champs/vice champs.

Some of you are still young to remember that Milan's decline began a year or two after Berlusconi lost his mind and started breaking every single transfer record.
He bought the european player of the year Pappin for a world record £10,000,000 fee and Pappin nver lived up to the expectations ( hell, he never even came close to it) . Soon after he broke the record, he set a new one by buying the "most talented" player in the world Lentini for £13,000,000 and you know the story with him.
In 1995 he equalised the record he set with Lentini by getting one of the best european players of all time, 28 years old Roberto Baggio, and Baggio was never the player he was at Juve ( Baggio was concidered the best player in the world at the time and he wasn't even changing leagues, but he still failed).

From 1995-2003 Milan was noone in Europe. When Berlusconi was paying solid money ( but still not pushing it) to get Donadoni, Van Basten, Savicevic, Desailly, and wasn't forgetting the Milan youth system, he was winning a lot. When he started pushing it Milan had a forgetable 8 years in Europe. When Berlu again started investing the money smartly instead of splashing record fees on one player , and when he bought Shevchenko, Rui Costa, Seedorf, Pirlo, Gattuso, Inzaghi, Kaka .. Milan was again on top of Europe.

There are positive and negative aspects in Dinho's arival.
That's why Mrki and our friend from Mostar shouldn't ignore Zlatanov's posts regarding Dinho.
He does have a point !

Originally Posted by zlatanov

or more like an idealist with a little bit of naive flavor of enthusiasm to his judgement ... romantic words that make people dream ... if only dreams were real

?? naive? Well thank you for your respect towards me.

We didnt sign Ronaldinho so its early to talk about him making or not making it in Italy, but there isnt one serious reason why a player like Ronaldo can and Ronaldinho cant make it. The man is 26 years old, not injured, not even injury prone, brilliant player. Money is not our question in here as we dont KNOW A SINGLE THING ABOUT MILANS MONEY. If Milan is ready to spend 80 mil for him, that is all Silvios money, and will repay through the years. Yes, there are always question marks about every big mercato move. But when Ronaldinho ( if...) arrives The man is now a little bit out of shape, but he is brilliant and noone can denie it.

To shorten this... We are not familiar with Milans finances and we dont actually know how the mercato works. There is always possibility of some injury or bad shape, but if they are ready to buy him... Why the hell not? He and KAka' are the best in the world! Not C.Ronaldo, circus player, not constantly injured Messi, not Rooney, not Drogba, not Robinho the dribbler, not Robben....Ronaldinho is better than all of them, and if "we" are ready to spend money, do it.

From tactical point of wiew, ita actually perfect, not bad but - PERFECT.
Gourcuff cant play as an AM as he is too slow for that, and he is a future star player for Milan, the boy has tons of class in his feet.
............pirlo............
gattuso........gourcuff.....
......kaka...roonie...
........ronaldo......

This is super team, it only needs some refreshment on goal and a world class LB.

Zlatanov...can you give us your team for next summer,please? I want to see that...

I don't see how i've twisted your words anymore than you've twisted mine Zlat. That key in the coffin is just something i don't buy. In today's game the amount of time you have on the ball (unless you're a cb passing it around) is not greatly different throughout the leagues. It may have been more apparent some years ago, but today i just feel it's a tired old excuse of an argument.

Likewise Tony people shouldn't ignore mrki or mosta's posts either just because they choose to look on the positive side rather than the cautious side of things.

I think I am in on the fence in this issue

The thing that the pro-ronaldinho side should keep in mind is that :

1)Kaka and Ronaldinho are almost the same player (Lampard Gerrard anyone?)

2)Kaka plays better with Ronaldo (if you watch Brazil matches) and Ronaldinho does things better when he is the main star or plays with Eto- a striker than only Olivera's style of play bears a passing resemblance. If Gila finds it hard to keep up with Milan's current style of play, it would be very difficult to play with ronaldinho. roanldinho is accustomed passing to a striker who doesn't mind doing a bit of work before finishing like Eto'o, Messi and Saviola. That's why Gudjonsen isn't cutting it right now.

3) Kaka's developmental curve risks the potention of tapering off sharply. The only thing that Ronaldinho does very well that Kaka isn't doing as yet is taking free kicks. I think Kaka is capable of taking good free kicks....but Ancelotti hasn't trusted him with them as yet...If ronaldinho comes he'll almost never develop in this and other areas. It think it would be wasting our boy.

4) I don't know what you guys think about it but I think ronaldo, for all his finishing abilities was bought as a support striker. the way Ancelotti is playing him is just the way I wanted him to play....as a striker who can feed the other striker. Ronaldo has added the dimension of setting up goals...I have been following him very closely...at Real and for Brazil....look at the goal he set up for Adriano this WC or the goals he sets up for Kaka in the friendlies...or even his through ball for Olivera and Raul most recently... why have another support striker when our left midfield could do with some rennovations?

The pros to his arrival are obvious. I think the best part about ronaldinho is that he can do it all...its not like he has one charracteristic that suits one league and not another

I think, we are all being a tad bit presumptuous when we make these assumptions:

a) Berlu wont spend any thing on defense and midfield, after we spend 70M on Ronaldinho
b) Ronaldinho wont adapt to the Italian league, where space is at a premium, and dribbling not an option
c) Kaka and Ronaldinho wont work, it didnt work in the World Cup, so it wont work for Milan
d) Ronaldinho will solve all our problems, and repay Berlu in goals, titles, and silverware.

Until the player comes to Milan, if/when he does put on the black and red, all of the above is conjecture.

I take all the points made, and still, being the romantic fan that I am, not knowing the depths of Berlu´s pockets, and wanting to see the best players play for Milan, wish to see Sir Buck Teeth of Gaucho play for my club.

It isnt about how well he will play with Kaka and Ronaldo, (but I ask this...if Oliveira, Ronaldo and Kaka can look so good...then...ah..but it was vs Siena...so obviously this observation is worthless ), but ultimately how well he will fit into Carlo´s system.

But again, the aforementioned is still conjecture...no simulation, no video games, nothing will demonstrate what will happen, until 3 of the most talented Brazilians playing competitive football, play again for a club team...week in, week out...a much different scenario to the circus that took place in Germany over the summer.

We have a reinspired, remotivated Ronaldo, who is running, tracking back to tackle, and to get the ball, a fit Kaka, and a remotivted, reinspired Ronaldinho...whats to doubt?

I say, bring him here Berlu!!! PLEASE!!!

If it doesnt work, he can be sold..he is only 26, and rarely injured...we may only get 35M for him...but we would have already made 35M in shirt sales...so, it balances out...doesnt it?

For me, its worth the risk. Berlu wont ignore the rest of the team...after all, his name is not Moratti.

I rest my case.

I forgot to say this, and its VERY IMPORTANT:

rijkaard is going to destroy Ronaldinho by playing him as a classic winger. When Rui and Kaka' played like 2 AM behind Sheva, none of them played as a winger. Playing Ronaldinho as a winger, like Rijkaard is doing, is damaging the player. He lost his defensive abilities, movement towards center and so on... ( in whole 90 minutes Ronaldinho changed side like 3 times, that is now enough ) At PSG Ronaldinho played classic AM and developed as the brilliant player. By playing him at center, switching places with Kaka', we should see even better Ronaldinho than he is now. I guarantee that, from a tactical point of wiew. Just put him in Rui Costa role and you'll get the picture... That is the idea in Milanello as I see it.

Originally Posted by milanista mosta

Zlatanov...can you give us your team for next summer,please? I want to see that...

if dream signings is what you mean, here it is, or something very close to it:
http://www.milanmania.com/forums/sho...postcount=1310

and if you do the math, you will see that signing all those players, or most of them at least, would cost Milan just about as much as it cost us to buy Dinho, maybe a little more but not that much.
Actually, depending on which options you choose - for instance, De Rossi vs. Barusso - it may actually cost us a lot LESS than what Dinho alone would.

The team above will provide not only quality players but quality in depth as one cannot expect a player to be able to play 60 games/season and be at 100% in all of them.
it would also provide different tactical solution with the inclusion of both physically strong and creative players, players who prefer to play more in the center of the field and wide players, like mancini/giuly/malouda, who we currently lack ... and all that for as much as one Dinho.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind Dinho at Milan but only once the backbone of the team has been renovated/repaired ... or as I said before, bake the cake first, get it ready, and only then put the cherry on top ... I have nothing against cherries, if Silvio is so willing to buy himself a new one.

Originally Posted by drucurl

I think I am in on the fence in this issue

The thing that the pro-ronaldinho side should keep in mind is that :

1)Kaka and Ronaldinho are almost the same player (Lampard Gerrard anyone?)

2)Kaka plays better with Ronaldo (if you watch Brazil matches) and Ronaldinho does things better when he is the main star or plays with Eto- a striker than only Olivera's style of play bears a passing resemblance. If Gila finds it hard to keep up with Milan's current style of play, it would be very difficult to play with ronaldinho. roanldinho is accustomed passing to a striker who doesn't mind doing a bit of work before finishing like Eto'o, Messi and Saviola. That's why Gudjonsen isn't cutting it right now.

3) Kaka's developmental curve risks the potention of tapering off sharply. The only thing that Ronaldinho does very well that Kaka isn't doing as yet is taking free kicks. I think Kaka is capable of taking good free kicks....but Ancelotti hasn't trusted him with them as yet...If ronaldinho comes he'll almost never develop in this and other areas. It think it would be wasting our boy.

4) I don't know what you guys think about it but I think ronaldo, for all his finishing abilities was bought as a support striker. the way Ancelotti is playing him is just the way I wanted him to play....as a striker who can feed the other striker. Ronaldo has added the dimension of setting up goals...I have been following him very closely...at Real and for Brazil....look at the goal he set up for Adriano this WC or the goals he sets up for Kaka in the friendlies...or even his through ball for Olivera and Raul most recently... why have another support striker when our left midfield could do with some rennovations?

The pros to his arrival are obvious. I think the best part about ronaldinho is that he can do it all...its not like he has one charracteristic that suits one league and not another

all good points I think. the difficulties Dinho and Kaka have had playing together in Brazil NT, shouldn't be ignored either as things that look awesome on paper often fail to live up to expectation in real life.