Transfers After CL Returning

Seedorf will not be on the bench, but he cant play more than 25 full games anymore. He simply doesnt cover enough ground anymore, as he used to do.

But one must understand his role on the pitch; anyway not the time to discuss about Seedorf here. Let's wait till the CL game...

Originally Posted by Jeff

But one must understand his role on the pitch; anyway not the time to discuss about Seedorf here. Let's wait till the CL game...

jeff lol your even more active than me at this point

Originally Posted by Dr Milano

jeff lol your even more active than me at this point

Ha? Why? Ya I was cleaning up the transfer forum since many posts have been left behind without discussion so all I did was 'closed' 'closed' 'closed'.

Originally Posted by Jeff

Ha? Why? Ya I was cleaning up the transfer forum since many posts have been left behind without discussion so all I did was 'closed' 'closed' 'closed'.

lol yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!! keep up the good work .. and just doing your job huh ???

Originally Posted by ARIO

Anyway, he played on the last WC as a starter, only because de Rossi red carded on the USA game, that's all. Did you think he is Lippi's first choice??

So? both gatusso and pirlo are widely recognised as one of the best MF, shortlisted as one of the best players in the WC. My friends who were mostly EPL(liverpool and manu) fans are all either a fan of Pirlo or Gattuso after the WC.

Like it or not, most people out there rated Pirlo and Gattuso among the best MF in the world and if we are to sell them, you can be assured they would also fetch very very good prices.

Milan play with an unique system and Lippi happily copied it and win the WC with it so don't underestimate our system of play. We just need to improve some parts of the system and we can get ready to rock the world.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

The problem before was Rino wasn't necessarily there to protect Pirlo, as he would also have to protect the right flank whenever Cafu would go forward. Playing both Rino and Ambro means that one can protect their flank if a full back pushes forward and the other can protect Pirlo, allowing him the freedom to move around more and play on the ball. I don't think Pirlo has diminished in any way recent years, but opposing teams have often figured out ways around our system (putting pressure on Pirlo and trying to force Gattuso in to help him would leave wide areas exposed and if Rino stays wide, the centre is exposed).

This doesn't mean Seedorf is necessarily out of the picture altogether, as against some teams, having him may be beneficial, when we have to take the match to the opposing team, who often defend more.

Finally, I will admit to having one worry of Ambro and Rino playing together, that is in the past we have had some trouble holding and playing with the ball with them on the field together. I think this matter depends more on who else is playing, as in the past it would often be Pirlo, Kaka, Sheva and Gila/Pippo. Sheva stays forward quite a lot and his movement usually operates around the box or in wide areas, meaning only Pirlo and Kaka were usually regularly available to pass to, making it harder to move the ball around. Therefore, it will be key to have whoever plays in Sheva's role to be willing to drop a little deeper. This could be another midfielder (Gourcuff or Seedorf) or a supporting forward who is willing to get deeper (one reason I've wanted Tevez so much). With the extra man, the midfield will have much more support and won't need to rely on Ambro or Rino to try and play as more creative players.

ps - I personally think Rino is the best ballwinning midfielder in the world.

The problem with our MF now is basically Seedorf. He doesn't do the defensive duties enough and leave Pirlo exposed having to move back to cover the left side too and cost him to use too much energy. But on another day, Seedorf can be absolutely hyper moving up and down the field. Seedorf really need to do his job in every game then i am sure we have the best MF in the world. I am fine with ambro coming in to replace Seedorf in some games but he isn't a permanent solution since he basically is injuried at least half of the time.

Actually i don't see any problems with Gattuso--pirlo--ambro. i don't think i have seen this combi before. the problem you mentioned about ambro and gattuso is when they are played next to each other, ancelotti like to sub in ambro in place of pirlo instead of seedorf. That would cause us some problems cos ambro and gattuso aren't the best in creating, passing.

i love the idea of playing 4-3-2-1, the extra attacking MF give us way more options in attacks, that is why i really like the idea of Tevez coming here. He and Gourcuff would give us more ideas upfront.

Originally Posted by hwmook

The problem with our MF now is basically Seedorf. He doesn't do the defensive duties enough and leave Pirlo exposed having to move back to cover the left side too and cost him to use too much energy. But on another day, Seedorf can be absolutely hyper moving up and down the field. Seedorf really need to do his job in every game then i am sure we have the best MF in the world. I am fine with ambro coming in to replace Seedorf in some games but he isn't a permanent solution since he basically is injuried at least half of the time.

Precisely my point over the past few years. Seedorf on his day is truly amazing, but how regularly he puts in these performances is another matter. When he is playing, its also up to Pirlo to do more defensive work, which is the lack of freedom.

Ambro I honestly believe can be world class if he played regularly, but as you said (I mentioned it before too), his injury problems are a huge fear.

Originally Posted by hwmook

Actually i don't see any problems with Gattuso--pirlo--ambro. i don't think i have seen this combi before. the problem you mentioned about ambro and gattuso is when they are played next to each other, ancelotti like to sub in ambro in place of pirlo instead of seedorf. That would cause us some problems cos ambro and gattuso aren't the best in creating, passing.

that's one thing I'm talking about though, if we play Rino--Pirlo--Ambro, one will often have to push forward to help the attack and the other two will close together to cover. Most naturally, you'd expect Pirlo to push forward. When Ambro and Rino had the ball before, they usually only had Pirlo and Kaka as options to pass to (a full back maybe too), which isn't always enough options and easier to defend against. Have an extra man like I mentioned, and suddenly most opposition midfielders will struggle to cope with the numbers, hence stretching out their team.

Originally Posted by hwmook

i love the idea of playing 4-3-2-1, the extra attacking MF give us way more options in attacks, that is why i really like the idea of Tevez coming here. He and Gourcuff would give us more ideas upfront.

well, I think a lot of people would like that formation tbh

Originally Posted by Duracell

It's sad to see Milan fans making comments like these. A constant starter for the last 4-5 years. Good Milan player who never mentioned considering playing elsewhere. It's a real tragedy indeed. Saying "if he's lucky" to be on the bench! wow.

Firstly, incase the big smiley grinning face wasn't enough of a clue, i shall tell you that i was playing around with that comment.

Secondly even if i was being serious about not making the bench, why would it be such a crime ? Some people in here act like you can't criticise any player at all on this team, it's beyond a joke sometimes.

My own view is clear, i don't think Seedorf should start.

You said yourself that he's been a constant starter for the last 4-5 years, so let me ask you that do you think he's still at his best ? Does he offer us anything new ? Can his performances help us win the big prizes ? My reply would be no to most of these, he's a good player and i am grateful for how he's evolved the team but now the team needs to evolve again as 4-5 years with practically the same midfield has stagnated our performances.

I'll tell you what the real tragedy is, people who think that our midfield 3 are always the best and can't be touched by other team's midfields, that our midfield can't or even shouldn't be improved upon and anyone who dares to suggest otherwise should be deemed as ungrateful or some sort of blasphemer.

let me just add some cents on this issue then:

the problem with Ambro-Gattuso-Pirlo is obvious. Ambro, first of all, gets injured easily and thus don't play regularly. Second, he is a ball winner just like Gattuso. While this will give extra space to protect Pirlo, there is one problem: No one holds up the field when Pirlo is tightly marked. We are taking for grante that Pirlo is always there, but it's not true. Sometimes he has an off day, sometimes the other team made the day bad for Pirlo. What can you do?

That's where Seedorf has come into the picture. He's sort of a mini-link between Pirlo and Kaka, if Pirlo fails. Ntice that Seedorf definitely has better dribbling and holding up ball skills. THis means that if we can't break the deadlock, we need Seedorf to move arond the midfield in order to coordinate with Pirlo. Believe it or not, it's an incredibly difficult job, and that's probably wehy sometimes he is AMAzING while sometimes he was plain BAD.

Having said, I still believe that Seedorf is useful to the squad in a unique way. He's like the Human Resource of a company; If HR does well, you won't notice it. But if it fails badly (like screwing up compensation scheme), then everyone will scold the HR.

Having said, Ancelotti will still need to have more creativity for our midfield.

Wait, this is about transfers after CL returning...

Hmmmm... but the big problem is that for each amazing performance Sedoorf gives us, we have 10 awful, bad or at least 'so so' displays from him...

I guess must be put under pressure, that is to say, we must get a player able to threatning Seedorf's status as a starter. BTW, I think that matter is a particularly serious problem with our squad, and since a long time ago: some players feel too secure of their positions as starters, and that's no good, not at all.

Relax Jeff, after you tell us who these creative midfielders are that you think we need, the thread will do a complete circle and come back onto the right topic

I'd like to take the points you make about Seedorf, namely his dribbling and holding up the ball skills and his link play between Pirlo & Kaka. This is a fair description of what he does but right now i see him as not having the pace anymore to actually dribble past players, so breaking away from the opposition is difficult for him. I also don't see him being physical enough to hold onto the ball or win the ball back on a regular basis. Finally i think that any player who is comfortable on the ball (meaning they won't panic under pressure as their skill will get them out of a tight mess) will be able to do the link up play.

No doubt at one stage he had all these abilities and he's helped get us where we are today. But he's not rising anymore, he's plateaued and only seems to spark into life for a handful of games at a time.

Getting a player to be all the things you've mentioned is obviously tricky as you're almost looking for the perfect midfielder. But there are better options out there and it's not about being disrespectful to Clarence, but about moving the team on which is what we need to do if we want to be winning major competitions over the next 5 years.

Lastly don't you think that being a starter for 4-5 years would make someone a little complacent ? This is probably my biggest annoyance about him. At times he just swans about and doesn't put in the effort, especially recently. It's just a train of thought but don't you think a good spell of working for his place will benefit us as a team in the long run ?

For me, Mascherano is strong in 2 of the 3 qualities ... Strength to hold the ball, comfortable on the ball to link up with Pirlo & Kaka. While Maxi is also strong in 2 of the 3 qualities ... Dribbling and link up play

No one we get will be exactly the same as Seedorf and we may well lose attributes from our game because of him not being in the team, but we will also gain new attributes from the new players.

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

Lastly don't you think that being a starter for 4-5 years would make someone a little complacent ?

That's it, on the bull's eye: one must no feel totally secure of his current status, that's very unhealthy.

mascherano would be perfect he can be a ball-winner like rino and protect pirlo but he is also very good at passing which rino isn't, mascherano-pirlo-gattuso would be brilliant it provides us with extra-protection and more creativity sign him now and tevez.

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

Relax Jeff, after you tell us who these creative midfielders are that you think we need, the thread will do a complete circle and come back onto the right topic

I'd like to take the points you make about Seedorf, namely his dribbling and holding up the ball skills and his link play between Pirlo & Kaka. This is a fair description of what he does but right now i see him as not having the pace anymore to actually dribble past players, so breaking away from the opposition is difficult for him. I also don't see him being physical enough to hold onto the ball or win the ball back on a regular basis. Finally i think that any player who is comfortable on the ball (meaning they won't panic under pressure as their skill will get them out of a tight mess) will be able to do the link up play.

No doubt at one stage he had all these abilities and he's helped get us where we are today. But he's not rising anymore, he's plateaued and only seems to spark into life for a handful of games at a time.

Getting a player to be all the things you've mentioned is obviously tricky as you're almost looking for the perfect midfielder. But there are better options out there and it's not about being disrespectful to Clarence, but about moving the team on which is what we need to do if we want to be winning major competitions over the next 5 years.

Lastly don't you think that being a starter for 4-5 years would make someone a little complacent ? This is probably my biggest annoyance about him. At times he just swans about and doesn't put in the effort, especially recently. It's just a train of thought but don't you think a good spell of working for his place will benefit us as a team in the long run ?

For me, Mascherano is strong in 2 of the 3 qualities ... Strength to hold the ball, comfortable on the ball to link up with Pirlo & Kaka. While Maxi is also strong in 2 of the 3 qualities ... Dribbling and link up play

No one we get will be exactly the same as Seedorf and we may well lose attributes from our game because of him not being in the team, but we will also gain new attributes from the new players.

Then he can only become more big-headed as he just receives the no. 10... now could this be the new motivation, or yet another way for him to 'slack'? only time will tell. One thing is for sure though; he will be here to stay and probably in the starting XI next year. Finger crossed.

I'm not sure players will get complasant that easily really because we can never tell how much effort he has put in outfield. Maybe he is training extremely hard in the gym or on stamina; you just never know. but perhaps you are right, we need some competition in the midfield.

IMO, Ballack will be a good competitor with Seedorf... oh well ~~~