Winter Mercato

Whats with all these talks about Lampard.

TO be honest, he is a solid player but nothing special. True he scores goals as a midfielder, but scoring goals is the job of strikers not midfielders. Also, just because he scored goals and looks great on stats sheet, it does not mean much if your team cannot win.

In all honestly, Gattuso did not score last year but I would be the first to say that he is one of the difference maker for Milan and Italy last season. Would that make Gattuso less of a player than Lampard.

Also don't compare Lampard with ZZ, Dinho, Totti and Riquelme as they are completely different players. ZZ Dinho,TOtti and Riquelme are players that creates for himself and their teammates. While Lampard just shoot the ball where ever he gets the chance. Ballack is a good comparsion but Ballack does create for his teammates too, while as Lampard just runs around the field looking for chances to shoot.

In short, Lampard is overrated just like Scholes were. I remembered that when ManU won the treble, people were saying that Scholes this and Scholes that, kind of like Lampard now.

Originally Posted by mzk57

2004 Chelsea vs AS Monoco
2005 Chelsea vs Liverpool
2007 Chelsea vs Liverpool

My mistake its actually 3 out o 4, but still it is a GREAT record

I said that he scored in the CL (group stages+knock out) He scored in the semi-final against Monoco, in the QF vs unbeaten Arsenal 2004, 3 against Bayern in 2005 QF and alot more in the group stage

Yes it is a good team. U have to accept Chelsea's dominance in EPL in the last 4 years, so no question there.

As for is team not qualifying for final, well in 2004, they came very close and at one stage Chelsea were leading AS Monoco on away goals rule, but then Morientes turned things on single handedly. U could say dat a moment of brilliance from one man took the game away from them & it happens in football
In 2005, I think u will agree that the ball was not over the line & who knows maybe on penelties Cech would have won the match for them, since he was at the form of his life in 2005. They were beaten by a goals which actually never happened

In 2006, AC Milan vs Liverpool was scripted at the start of the season, History was going to CORRECT itself. U can't chage things like dat Chelsea went out just on penelties. Just imagine if the 2nd leg was at Stamfor Bridge, who knows, the crowd advantage would have worked for them and its could have been ACM vs Chelsea.

If the coach can't pick the rite formation, Frank can't do any thing abt that. Give Lampard & Gerrard to Carlo and he would play them in the perfect formation of ACM. Just imagine this team

----------------Inzaghi--------------
---------Lampard------Kaka-----------
----Gerrard-------Pirlo------Gattuso----
----------------defense----------------
--------any GK apart from d!da-----------

The English coach is responssible for his poor management of the team and poor performances not ONE FRANK LAMPARD!!

In Euro 2004, Zidane scored 3 goals and France lost in the QF. Lampard scored 3 goals and England lost in QF. SO whats the difference????

If I am not mistaken, he was 'English Fan's player of the year' in 2004, mainly bcoz of his stunning performances in Euro 2004


It used to be like that but its NOT now Plus EPL is much more difficult league than Bundes Liga, Am i rite????

Now they both are in one team and Ballack even plays ahead of Lampard in the formation. Like Ballack is Chelsea's Kaka, and Lampard is their Seedorf in the 4-3-1-2 formation. Now who is more likely to score in that formation??? Seedorf or Kaka?? Same goes for Lampard & Ballack. U compare their record of 2006-2007 and then declare who has had the better season????
For details of their record, log on to http://www.chelseafc.com
Ronaldinho is a forward man and Lampard is a midfielder. Suppose the both have same number of goals, even then Lampard should be given more credit bcoz he is a midfielder and he has to perform defensive duties as well

Totti won the Golden boot with 26 goals and over all he scored (say) 30 goals (I am not sure) and over all Lampard scored 21-22 goals. Their is just a difference of 7-8 goals, which is not that massive & let me remind u that Totti was at the end of of every move made by Roma midfielders. He was playing as a lone striker. He didn't win the Golden Boot playing as midfielder. The seasons in which he played as a midfielder, he didn't win it and maximum he scored 15 goals (including penelties)
U can see that u are comparing Lampard's scoring rate with players who play in much more advance position than him and still the difference is not that big . Gerrard scored only 10-12 goals froim the same position, he too takes the penelties

Now if u say that Lampard too plays as a 2nd striker, then let me remind u their formations of the last 4 season. U must know that I also follow Chelsea a little bit after ACM

Chelsea of 2003-2004

------------------------------Cudicini----------------------------

---Melchiot-------------Desielly--------Terry-----Bridge/Babayaro--

---Gronkjaer------Lampard---------Veron---------Duff/J.Cole----

-==--------Hasselbaink/Mutu----Crespo/Gudjohnsen----------

Chelsea of 2004-2005

------------------------------Cech------------------------------

---Fareirra----------Carvalho----------Terry------Gallas--------

--------------Tiago--------Makelele-----Lampard-------------

---------------Duff--------Drogba/Gudjohnsen----Robben--------


Chelsea of 2005-2006

------------------------------Cech------------------------------

---Fareirra----------Carvalho----------Terry------Gallas--------

--------------Essien--------Makelele-----Lampard-------------

---------------J.Cole-----Drogba/Crespo-----Robben-----------


Chelsea of 2005-2006

------------------------------Cech------------------------------

---Bolarouz---------Carvalho----------Terry------A.Cole--------

--------------Essien--------Makelele-----Lampard-------------

----------------------------Ballack------------------------------

--------------------Drogba--------$hevchenko/Robben------------


SO U can see that in every formation there are 3-4 players which were MORE likely 2 score goals than Fat Frank. But still he was Chelsea's top scorer with 20+ goals each season from deep midfield in all seasons (with exception of the last 1) in the presence of forwards like Crespo, Drogba, $hevchenko, Mutu, Kezman, Gudjohnsen, Hasselbaink, Robben, Duff, J.Cole adn Ballack.

Thats why He is the best player of the world in my opinion

Didn't have the heart to tell him that Frank already has a girlfriend ......but then again I doubt that would have stopped him

AC Milan received the most money from last season's Champions League, earning just under 40 million euros on the way to winning European soccer's top club competition for the seventh time, Uefa said on Tuesday.....................................


http://www.supersoccer.co.za/default...ersoccer/italy
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At the moment we had a lot of money(last year+now). But we also had no transfers!

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

Calciomercato.com


Ronaldinho al Milan? Berlusconi pronto a pagare la clausola di rescissione da 125 mln

09:30 del 11 luglio

Il Milan punta tutto su Ronaldinho. Nei prossimi giorni i rossoneri effettueranno un ultimo tentativo con il Barcellona. Se il club catalano dovesse rifiutarsi di intavolare una trattativa, il presidente Berlusconi sarebbe anche disposto a pagare l'intera clausola di rescissione del brasiliano, pari a 125 milioni di euro. In questo modo il Barça non potrebbe fare nulla per evitare di perdere il suo campione.
Ronaldinho avrebbe già un accordo di massima con il Milan per un contratto di cinque anni da 8,5 milioni di euro netti a stagione più la cessione di tutti i diritti d'immagine. L'indiscrezione è riportata dal quotidiano spagnolo AS.



A fine stagione, il Barcellona perde i vantaggi del 25% con il fisco e fatica a rinnovare il contratto di Ronaldinho. C'è anche il problema Eto'o. Il Milan pronto a dare l'assalto al brasiliano.
(Gazzetta dello Sport)

The first story is from AS, unfortunately. They fabricate nearly all their stories. The Gazzetta one is good news though, as at least it's a paper with more credibility.

In English:

Milan plan ‘Dinho mega-bid!
Wednesday 11 July, 2007
Milan chief Silvio Berlusconi is ready to pay Ronaldinho’s £89m release clause to bring him to San Siro, according to reports.

The Rossoneri have been repeatedly paired with the 2005 Golden Ball winner after the European champions stated that they were in pole position to sign the Brazilian if he decides to leave the Nou Camp.

Ronaldinho has been in contract talks with the Blaugrana, but despite reiterating that he was not set to leave the Spanish giants he is once again being linked with a Serie A switch.

Reports suggest that Milan will make a new offer to Barcelona over the next few days, as President Berlusconi is willing to pay the player’s £89m release clause if the Azulgrana refuse his offer.

Spanish newspaper AS also claims that ‘Dinho has already agreed to a five-year contract with the Rossoneri, worth £6m a season plus his entire lucrative image rights.

The Brazilian is currently contracted to Barca until 2010 and talks to extend his deal until 2014 have stalled so far, fuelling Berlusconi’s dream of seeing a Ronaldo, Kaka and Ronaldinho trident next term.

----
channel4

you know what's funny...how everyone blasted Ancelotti half a year ago Milancelotti even talked about how he has the least popular nickname on MM and now it's consensus that he's genious...what a difference six months make

Dont missunderstand us (anti Carlo fans ), we have never said that he dont understand much about coashing, but we did say that he some times without ,obvious reasons, plays in a very definsive way that cost us alot

Originally Posted by hany.Egypt

Dont missunderstand us (anti Carlo fans ), we have never said that he dont understand much about coashing, but we did say that he some times without ,obvious reasons, plays in a very definsive way that cost us alot

Or gains us alot. I guess it all depends on whether you see the glass as half empty or half full. Personally, a coach who has won us two CL titles makes me see an over flowing glass.

If we ganna sign Ronaldinho that will be the transfer of the transfers!

Originally Posted by Hasan Rossonero

The first story is from AS, unfortunately. They fabricate nearly all their stories. The Gazzetta one is good news though, as at least it's a paper with more credibility.

In English:

Milan plan ‘Dinho mega-bid!
Wednesday 11 July, 2007
Milan chief Silvio Berlusconi is ready to pay Ronaldinho’s £89m release clause to bring him to San Siro, according to reports.

The Rossoneri have been repeatedly paired with the 2005 Golden Ball winner after the European champions stated that they were in pole position to sign the Brazilian if he decides to leave the Nou Camp.

Ronaldinho has been in contract talks with the Blaugrana, but despite reiterating that he was not set to leave the Spanish giants he is once again being linked with a Serie A switch.

Reports suggest that Milan will make a new offer to Barcelona over the next few days, as President Berlusconi is willing to pay the player’s £89m release clause if the Azulgrana refuse his offer.

Spanish newspaper AS also claims that ‘Dinho has already agreed to a five-year contract with the Rossoneri, worth £6m a season plus his entire lucrative image rights.

The Brazilian is currently contracted to Barca until 2010 and talks to extend his deal until 2014 have stalled so far, fuelling Berlusconi’s dream of seeing a Ronaldo, Kaka and Ronaldinho trident next term.

----
channel4

what these latest reports say is all based on an article in AS and by now we know well how trustworthy they are.

Anyways, here is the original article in AS:
http://www.as.com/articulo/futbol/Mi...daiftb_46/Tes/

and here is a short description of their "reasoning" and how AS arrived at the "Milan ready to pay 125 mil buy-out clause" thing that came to life over the last day or two:
http://www.tuttomercatoweb.com/index...=read&id=66887

There is a lot of BS said in there but the jist of it is that Milan had decided to put away 45 mil to pay Chelski in order to get Sheva back (anyone crazy enough to believe that?!).
but here comes the "magic" part - Sheva has apperantly convinced Roman Abramovic to send him back to Milan on a free-loan ... so those 45 mil Milan had decided to give Chelski are now "freed" to be added to the 80 mil Milan had ready for Ronaldinho, hence the 125 mil that would be enough to pay for Dinho's buy-out clause

That's pretty much it, bs after bs and not a word that actually makes sense ...

AS is saying something about Berlusconi at first offered 80 mln for Ronaldinho and 45 for Shevchenko to Chelsea, but now he wiill offer a buy out clause number - 125 mln. Si imagine this talk:

Berlusconi: " Mr. Laporta, our final offer for Ronaldinho, our dream player is 80 mln."

Laporta: " Im sorry, he is not for sale. If I sell him I would have to leave the country."

Berlusconi: " Everything is for sale! I'll buy your club if you dont sell! "

Laporta: " Ok...easy. But 80 mln is not enough. You need go give more... " ( what a lunatic Italian, he thinks )

Berlusconi: " More? ( and then he goes mad ) I'll pay 125 mln for this overpriced and out of form player! Im Silvio Berlusconi, I have TV channels, someone needs to play beautifull football on them! With two forwards, two! maybe even three if I bring back Sheva!"

Laporta( with a look like Homer Simpson has on his face when something isnt clear to him): " Ok... tommorow I'll pack my bags for Paris..."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
channel 4

Originally Posted by zlatanov

what these latest reports say is all based on an article in AS and by now we know well how trustworthy they are.

Anyways, here is the original article in AS:
http://www.as.com/articulo/futbol/Mi...daiftb_46/Tes/

and here is a short description of their "reasoning" and how AS arrived at the "Milan ready to pay 125 mil buy-out clause" thing came to life:
http://www.tuttomercatoweb.com/index...=read&id=66887

There is a lot of BS said in there but the jist of it is that Milan had decided to put away 45 mil to pay Chelski in order to get Sheva back (anyone crazy enough to believe that?!).
but here comes the "magic" part - Sheva has apperantly convinced Roman Abramovic to send him back to Milan on a free-loan ... so those 45 mil Milan had decided to give Chelski are now "freed" to be added to the 80 mil Milan had ready for Ronaldinho, hence the 125 mil that would be enough to pay for Dinho's buy-out clause

That's pretty much it, bs after bs and not a word that actually makes sense ...

Yep...fabrication galore.

Here is the gazzetta story I was talking about earlier in the thread:

Ronaldinho: il fisco aiuta il Milan (La Gazzetta dello Sport) Il Barça a fine stagione perde i vantaggi del 25% e fatica a rinnovare col brasiliano. C'è anche il problema Eto'o.
Ronaldinho: il fisco aiuta il Milan (La Gazzetta dello Sport)
zoom - galleria

«Sarà un brasiliano il rinforzo del Milan». La battuta è di Adriano Galliani a Milan Channel. E il pensiero corre veloce al talentuoso Pato. Ma poi lo stesso amministratore delegato rossonero ampia le prospettive e riapre a Ronaldinho. In serata interviene a Telelombardia e commenta così le voci che vogliono l'ex Pallone d'Oro impaziente di vestire la maglia rossonera. «La notizia mi fa piacere». Invece protegge Pato: «Lasciamolo stare, lasciamolo tranquillo, poi vedremo».

Da Barcellona giungono anche aggiornamenti sulla trattativa per il nuovo contratto di Ronaldinho. Proprio di recente Laporta ha promesso a Roberto Assis, fratello- agente, che il nuovo accordo sarà siglato entro dicembre. Ma non sarà facile. Attualmente Ronaldinho guadagna 8 milioni di euro netti e al club ne costa 10 al lordo grazie all'agevole tassazione al 25% consentita dalla legge Zapatero. Ma dopo 5 anni di residenza in Spagna questi benefici scompaiono. E si va alla tassazione standard, cioè quasi il 50%. Per questo la conferma degli attuali emolumenti al lordo costerebbe al Barça circa 16 milioni.

E Ronaldinho chiede l'aumento a 10: quindi in prospettiva a 20. Uno scoglio che condiziona non poco il Barça peraltro alle prese con le richieste di Eto'o, già in tassazione piena perché risiede in Spagna dal '97. Così i rossoneri devono aspettare. Non solo il tema tecnico aiuta Ancelotti. Ma chi scarta il Barça? Ronaldinho o Eto'o? Vale la pena aspettare: chiunque sia tra i due.

http://www.goal.com/it/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=349711

yeah, I read the same on calciomercato.it:
http://www.calciomercato.it/dettagli...a=1&hdnId=2461

it is something that does make sense and as it argues, the fiscal policies in SPain are qualled after 5 years with those in Italy, so Barca would be facing the same issues as Milan does when it comes to paying 50% taxes on player wages.
what's interesting is that they, Barca, would find themselves stretched on two fronts with Dinho's and Etoo's salary demands given that the latter has been in Spain for over a decade now.

One more reason why one of them might have to leave, I think, apart from the lack of space up front with 4 super-stars "fighting" for 3 spots on the team.

Originally Posted by zlatanov

yeah, I read the same on calciomercato.it:
http://www.calciomercato.it/dettagli...a=1&hdnId=2461

it is something that does make sense and as it argues, the fiscal policies in SPain are qualled after 5 years with those in Italy, so Barca would be facing the same issues as Milan does when it comes to paying 50% taxes on player wages.
what's interesting is that they, Barca, would find themselves stretched on two fronts with Dinho's and Etoo's salary demands given that the latter has been in Spain for over a decade now.

One more reason why one of them would have to leave, I think, apart from the lack of space up front with 4 super-stars "fighting" for 3 spots on the team.

Well Zlat, I think our management will make a bid for Ronaldinho in the next few days. I don't know if Barca will accept, but I don't expect it to be 125 million euros!!

I think we're more likely to get Ronaldinho out of the two. I could see us bid about 60 million euros for the players, and use the remaining (if Berlu has indeed set aside 100) for the player's wages (Milan would have to add some as well).

I had a question. If the story for Ronaldinho is a fantasy where AS started it all then why Gazzetta who is a good newspaper had also written the same story?

Originally Posted by rosoneri_11

I had a question. If the story for Ronaldinho is a fantasy where AS started it all then why Gazzetta who is a good newspaper had also written the same story?

it's simple - they didn't

the two stories are separate from one another and contain different points - Gazzetta's is focused on why Spanish fiscal laws favour a Dinho-to-Milan move, while AS's story is a fairy tale that ain't gonna happen ... at least not in the Universe we live in, in theirs, it's already a fact

Originally Posted by Hasan Rossonero

Well Zlat, I think our management will make a bid for Ronaldinho in the next few days. I don't know if Barca will accept, but I don't expect it to be 125 million euros!!

I think we're more likely to get Ronaldinho out of the two. I could see us bid about 60 million euros for the players, and use the remaining (if Berlu has indeed set aside 100) for the player's wages (Milan would have to add some as well).

this one raises one other point why it may be in Barca's interest to sell now:
http://www.tuttomercatoweb.com/index...=read&id=66962

it argues that in the summer of 2009 Dinho would be able to use a FIFA clause that would allow him to buy-out his contract from Barca (as a player who'd be 28 yo) and thus leave for a very small amount compared to what they could get for him now.
Morgan de Sanctis is given as an example, and while I doubt it would go there, who knows what Dinho would be thinking in 2 years from now and Barca might not be willing to take the risk, not with Messi, Etoo and Henry already on board.

Zlat, i don't understand this 28 yo rule.
Can any player who's over 28 buy out his contract, or only those over 28 yo who have only 1 year left on the contract ?
And does this rule count in Italy ?

Because both Trez and Camo wanted to leave Juve last summer but they couldn't, eventhough they were over 28 yo.