Summer mercato 2009

Originally Posted by Saliwonczyk

Mertesacker is much better, trust me.... And young as well

I agree with you he's young

Originally Posted by Dutchie-Milan

Gamberini is a better version of Bonera,nothing more.I would like him to come to Milan because he will only be a backup for the Nesta-Silva duo.But i also think Per Mertesacker is better,the guy has the phisyque wich we lack sometimes in our team,and he is also solid,not world class but he doesnt make stupid mistakes and never gives horrorshows like the one Kaladze gave against Inter(damn that was terrible!!!!!!).

No one makes the kind of mistakes Kaladze did against Inter at the top, that was a freakshow like Istanbul. Mertesacker makes plenty of mistakes though and has made them in high profile games, just watch Euro 2008 and WC2006.

Originally Posted by Dutchie-Milan

With supporting i mean paying much attention to Milan.....and they have to get rid of their frustrations somewhere.

And i think people like Mrki are frustrated because most of the posters here dont want to open their eyes and see in what kind of trouble and mess Milan is IMO.I see that but i am from nature i optimistic guy,but even i now cant see a glimp of light at the end of the tunnel.

Well, the thing is, Kaka is only one player. He was at Milan slightly longer than Marco van Basten, Frank Rijkaard or Ruud Gullit. In fact, in the summer of 1993 Milan lost all three of those players. Marco retired because of his injury. Both Rijkaard and Gullit were sold. Yet Milan still managed to win both the Scudetto and the Champions League in the 1993-94 season with players such as Dejan Savicevic, Marco Simone, Daniele Massaro, etc.

Certainly it's unlikely Milan will accomplish that much this year, but my point is that life in Milan goes on no matter what player leaves. If Milan could survive losing three of their greatest ever players in one year, surely they car survive losing just one. There are still great players in Milan and I see no reason to believe there won't be more great players in Milan just because impatient fans on a message board think the sky is falling if all the transfer dealings arent finalized in the first few weeks of a mercato that doesn't end until the end of August.

Anyone who was around these boards a few years ago should recall that many were predicting doomday because Shevchenko was sold. It was the end of Milan as we know it! Milan was now a selling club! The future was bleak! But who won the Champions League for the 2006-07 season?

Milan is bigger than any one player or any group of players. The summer transfer window still has two months left. What's the sense in everyone tearing their hair out just because the new Milan squad isn't yet in place? Last I noticed, Manchester United still hadn't replaced either Ronaldo or Tevez, so why should Milan already have everything wrapped up in a neat little package? Everyone should just relax and be patient. Let's see what the team looks like in August.

Youre probably right and your making strong points,great post.

I just love to see some change in the MGT´s behaviour,and you have to realise Rick: We can go on without Kaka but if Milan keep selling their starplayers as Pato etc. Then in the long run it will turn out bad....

Originally Posted by mrki

"mrki and others" - wow now I have my own religion...

Sorry, but you don't have your own religion (no matter how much you stand on the corner yelling that "the end is near!"). I said "mrki and anyone else" (not mrki and others) because you were the one who Dutchie specifically mentioned as having been claiming you would never support Milan again if they sold Kaka.

I'm glad you've decided you can't turn your back on the club because anyone who would stop supporting a club because they didn't have a certain player is really a fan of the player, not the club. But it just serves to underscore some of the "sky is falling" dramatics around here. And sometimes I do think you're the "prophet" of the negativity movement.

Originally Posted by Dutchie-Milan

Youre probably right and your making strong points,great post.

I just love to see some change in the MGT´s behaviour,and you have to realise Rick: We can go on without Kaka but if Milan keep selling their starplayers as Pato etc. Then in the long run it will turn out bad....

Sure, if Milan were to keep unloading their best players and not replace them with other top rate players, that would be bad. But it's only been a few weeks. Milan has turned down a tremendous offer for Pato (one that would have been great business, truthfully, but would have upset the fans who are already mourning the sale of Kaka), so I don't think Pato is going anywhere soon. If any more of the key players go, it will only be Pirlo (and I think he will probably stay as well) if Chelsea makes a ridiculous offer for a player on the downside of his career.

The core of the team is still there. Milan needs only add a few quality players to be in the mix for the Scudetto and even the Champions League this year. Leonardo obviously has his eye on certain players and Milan is being linked with a lot of quality players this summer. I see no reason to believe they won't get a few of them. Then we can build from there.

Did anybody else get red in the face reading about Leonardo at "school" to learn to win? This is VERY embarassing!!

Originally Posted by Rick

Well, the thing is, Kaka is only one player. He was at Milan slightly longer than Marco van Basten, Frank Rijkaard or Ruud Gullit. In fact, in the summer of 1993 Milan lost all three of those players. Marco retired because of his injury. Both Rijkaard and Gullit were sold. Yet Milan still managed to win both the Scudetto and the Champions League in the 1993-94 season with players such as Dejan Savicevic, Marco Simone, Daniele Massaro, etc.

I wouldn't compare this Milan to that great one. First, after Van Basten we have had Papin, Simone, Kluivert, Weah and Bierhof. Now, who? Borriello? ( who, if it's not enough, we have payed two times!) This is the problem, the different approach to the market , explanations always insane ( they said :we are a family, we are n. 1 also in heaven, old experienced players give their best, we are good without purchases, then no-EU spots wasted and so on.) These are a few reasons of our - italian milanistas - frustration, come on, when Milan went down twice in B, I remember you that San Siro was full also when we played ... ehhmmm... Cavese! 70.000 enthusiast people, crazy about our red and black team. With all the due respect to Cavese, Cavese is not ManUtd or Juve! How can I make myself understood with my super- broken english? It is not a problem to accept the balance troubles, it's a question of indignation for continuos succession of wrong choices in the last three years, rather than of wounded pride. It's the product, the sum of all the yesterday mistakes that builds that situation now: n. 400 season 2009/2010 subscribes up to now! It says it all, i think.

The thing is, Galli is telling everyone that Milan turned down a great huge offer for Pato. But nobody knows how serious was that offer, at least there is no reports of sighting of high official from other clubs coming to Milan like in Jan with the Kaka thing. Point is, that might just be a lie to settle the fans about Milan being a selling club.

And for the last time, pls don't use the 2007 as a year that Milan won the CL to prove Milan is still in good shape after selling their best player. I know Jeff will disagree with me on this for sure, but it was really a one man show of Kaka that won us the CL. ON top of that, if Juve and Fiorentina were actually still in Series A that season, Milan probably would not finish the top 4 in 06-07.

Milan will always be Milan nomatter what, but the way Berlu is acting is not new to anyone that have been following Milan for quite some time. It just so happen that this year the worst is happening, Cap retiring, the selling of Kaka and Seedorf staying.

One can only take so much.

I am not too upset about the Cissohko and the Dzeko affairs as thats expected. I mean if we know Leo has an eye for talents, won't other teams know that too. And with the way Galli and Berlu kept bragging about getting Kaka on the cheap or how they got Pirlo....no teams would want to sell Milan any young promising players on the cheap.

The other thing I dislike the MGT is that they will continue to give crap(lies, bad players rumors...) to the fans. Then finally they will sign someone, and all the fans will go, way to go Galli, you sure rule the transfer market....but the fact is, those are signings that Milan should be doing on a normal basis and should not be treat as something special. Getting player like Messi or CR7 will be special but getting players like Cissohko is not. Not saying Cissohko is not talented but when it comes to making a noise, he is not in a level to Messi or CR7.
Pls don't say, I would rather Milan sign up and promising players than established young stars. B/c if lets say Pool is in crap and need to sell their stars, I am sure most of you will rather have Torres than Dzeko if their price is about the same. If you still say you want Dzeko, you are lying.
OR if Inter is willing to sell Santon or Macion to us, most of us would want Macion and Santon than Cissohko. Just like how people react to Cesc rumors, nobody said, why need Cesc, we should concentrate on Hernanes.

This is Milan, and if Berlu and Galli kept talking Milan is a team full of Champions and won the most in the last 10 years.....they should act like the owner and the manager of such team. That is always go after the best players in the world for each position while making the team better.

Rick, you mentioned that Milan lost the dutch trio all in one year, but the thing is at that time, Milan was fill with quality players and those three ain't exactly performing at their highest level. Most importantly, Milan were winning games comfortably without the trio the year before. While Milan of now actually struggles without Maldini and Kaka this past season. Yes, Nesta and T. Silva will be able to fill Caps spot and Dinho probably going to do as well as Kaka did(at least thats what I am hoping). However, will that be enough for Milan to do well with the current squad?
Even if the ended up with Cissohko and Dzeko in mid July, with their jam pack Friendlies schedule(10 games in 40 days at about 10 cities over 3 continents) Do you think they will have time to settle into the team. I think one of the main reasons Milan always started slow was the team ain't together till late August.

On top of that Milan will be playing in CL this coming season.

Lastly, the longer Milan wait for signing the most likely they will be end up with panic buy.
3 yrs ago=RO
2 yrs ago=Emerson
Last year=Senderous and Sheva.

I for one would not want to see another panic buy from Milan.

Originally Posted by Samaldinho

If it is a sellers' market then why should Milan put itself in an even worse position by forcing itself to buy when it can wait out?

Sure, right now, many fans will be irate. However, they will forget it very quickly once the signings come.


With regards to Dzeko, after what Kaka did to Milan, I'm not sure if I really believe what is coming out of the camp. I guess I know what it is like to be a Real fan, and frankly I don't like it. Granted, it has not been a drawn-out process, but the difference is that Dzeko has said it has been his dream for Milan.

Anyways, I don't see the point of complaining or being impatient. We have no control of the situation. I am glad, however, that fans are not buying Milan season tickets. I am not going to buy Milan gear until the team is given the necessary upgrades it needs.

I just want to highlight that, I too, am as frustrated as you are. It is so annoying having to listen to transfer rumors and then official acquisitions of seemingly every club but my own. However, I will try and sit tight and just wait for the club to prove my pessimistic side wrong.

I am not trying to ruin your day here, simply trying to make a little argument with a fellow fan.

The thing about your waiting strategy is, without having any leverage, how do you expect Milan to lower the price of players by waiting? Take the example of the Dzeko deal. Wolfsburg does not want to sell for anything less than crazy money. If, say, we wait for two months, then guess what? The situation will still remain the same. They will want too much money, we won't have any to spend, we still HAVE to sign good players since our reputation and season ticket sales are in the dump. So, why would Wolfsburg lower the price there? If anything, Milan would be in an even worse situation as there is more urgency to sign the player (i.e the Oliveira deal). The waiting game only works when the other club has to sell the player for whatever the reason. And that is clearly not the case for pretty much everyone we are linked with.

I do think we have a lot in common, but I just cannot see the logic in this strategy is all.

Dear, dear Ricky, lets look at all those arguments now shall we?

Originally Posted by Rick

Well, the thing is, Kaka is only one player. He was at Milan slightly longer than Marco van Basten, Frank Rijkaard or Ruud Gullit. In fact, in the summer of 1993 Milan lost all three of those players. Marco retired because of his injury. Both Rijkaard and Gullit were sold. Yet Milan still managed to win both the Scudetto and the Champions League in the 1993-94 season with players such as Dejan Savicevic, Marco Simone, Daniele Massaro, etc.

You're talking about a time when we had already won nearly everything there was to win on the continent for a club.
We'd been winning the Scudetto two years prior, and had already had a competitive team in place to compete with the other clubs. We had the likes of Baresi, Costacurta, Tassotti and Maldini all in their prime as a back four. Players like Zvonomir Boban, Albertini, Dessailly and Donadoni to make up the midfield, and Lentini and Savicevic up front.
The team had a winning mentality that was already instilled into them, and quality to back it up so that with the loss of three players, we could still cope with it.

Compared to now? We've not won the league in so many years, the closest we've been to contending the league at all was in 2004-2005 when we were runners up in both League and CL. I would seriously consider us as being 4 years uncompetitive (I don't care if we had one season of docked points, we simply didn't win enough that season to be competitive, and had we started on equal footing, Fiorentina would have took our CL spot that season as well).
The main point I'm trying to point out here is, we lack the quality in our current squad and mentality to actually repeat history. That is the first of our problems.

Certainly it's unlikely Milan will accomplish that much this year, but my point is that life in Milan goes on no matter what player leaves. If Milan could survive losing three of their greatest ever players in one year, surely they car survive losing just one. There are still great players in Milan and I see no reason to believe there won't be more great players in Milan just because impatient fans on a message board think the sky is falling if all the transfer dealings arent finalized in the first few weeks of a mercato that doesn't end until the end of August.

Ricky, I think the main point here is that from recent history, and I speak from since the summer Sheva left, we haven't actually bought any great players to Milan bar one Pato. It's not the fact that the fans are impatient, it has more to do with Galliani's recent track of over the past few mercatos where he promises changes and players of quality, and we either get players that end up not being played at all, decent players who don't fit the Milan system, or players that are overpriced and well below Milan's quality. It's not about when the dealings are finalized, but rather the fact that when the player comes, no one actually wants them.

Yes, we have quality in the ranks, but most of that quality happens to be on the wrong side of 30, and they're not getting any younger. What the fans want are signs we'll be turning over the old guard with younger, quality players. I think the main theme of many complaints on the boards revolves around the fact that we're not even being linked with said younger, quality players, whilst all of our closest rivals are.

Anyone who was around these boards a few years ago should recall that many were predicting doomday because Shevchenko was sold. It was the end of Milan as we know it! Milan was now a selling club! The future was bleak! But who won the Champions League for the 2006-07 season?

Milan is bigger than any one player or any group of players. The summer transfer window still has two months left. What's the sense in everyone tearing their hair out just because the new Milan squad isn't yet in place? Last I noticed, Manchester United still hadn't replaced either Ronaldo or Tevez, so why should Milan already have everything wrapped up in a neat little package? Everyone should just relax and be patient. Let's see what the team looks like in August.

Need I remind you that the season Sheva was sold to Chelski, we were suffering from the stupid Calciopoli, and though I've always believed we were innocent, there have been many people saying we shouldn't have even been in the 2006-2007 CL at all. Yes, we won that year, but just remember who the heck grabbed us by the scruff of the neck and dragged us through the likes of Celtic and Manchester United all by himself? The very man we just let walk out to Madrid.

Point is, we lost Sheva, but we had quality like Kaka as well as a resurgent Pippo to fill in for him. Currently, Pippo, as well as the rest of our squad, is 3 years older than that time. Although I rate Pato highly enough to replace Kaka, he's not yet the finished product that Kaka was when Sheva left.

2006-2007:
CL Winners (we could have missed it completely)
Serie A 4th (would have been 5th had Fiore not been deducted more points than us)
2007-2008:
CL Quarters (We had a lucky Group and were kicked out by Arsenal's youth)
Serie A 5th (Need I say anymore?)
2008-2009
UEFA (We played crap, just admit it: Draw with Pompey, last-gasp winner against Braga, I could go on and on...)
Serie A 3rd (We improved against the smaller teams, and yet against all the powerhouses, we wilted away. If we hadn't brought in Beckham, who knows what the heck would have happened)

Yes, Manchester lost Tevez and Ronaldo, but they also have a team that caters the likes of Rooney, Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra, Van Der Saar, Carrick, Fletcher, Hargareves, JS Park and others currently in place. They have youngsters like Raphael, Macheda, Anderson, Welbeck, Evans, Fabio that are developing with the squad, who can all come in and do the job as their respective counterparts. I would actually rate Man Utd currently similar to Milan of 1993-1994, quality in the ranks to replace any loss in quality from sale of class players (C. Ronaldo Can't believe I wrote that...). Their team is also ages younger than ours, but their youngsters know the team inside out, can replace their veterans when necessary and still make up for lack of experience with youth and pace. Can you really say the same for us?


Ricky, I know I'm being negative, but if past history was to be relied on, I'd rely on Recent past history rather than something that happened nearly 2 decades ago. I think that is the MAIN PROBLEM that we are facing as fans, our recent history is really nothing to brag about.

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

One can only take so much.

I am not too upset about the Cissohko and the Dzeko affairs as thats expected. I mean if we know Leo has an eye for talents, won't other teams know that too. And with the way Galli and Berlu kept bragging about getting Kaka on the cheap or how they got Pirlo....no teams would want to sell Milan any young promising players on the cheap.

This is Milan, and if Berlu and Galli kept talking Milan is a team full of Champions and won the most in the last 10 years.....they should act like the owner and the manager of such team. That is always go after the best players in the world for each position while making the team better.

On top of that Milan will be playing in CL this coming season.

Lastly, the longer Milan wait for signing the most likely they will be end up with panic buy.
3 yrs ago=RO
2 yrs ago=Emerson
Last year=Senderous and Sheva.

I for one would not want to see another panic buy from Milan.

Random quotes from Gabby's last post, I just had to put them up because I feel the same way. They fill out the things my arguement lacked. Props to you Gabby, and total agreement. I don't want another panic buy from management, because we were waiting on other deals that didn't materialize.

Thanks Ryo, but pls don't refer me to Gabby anymore, as only ladies can call me that. So unless you look like Megan Fox, Gabe or Gabriel is fine.

slifersd, the reason why I know that strategy really works is because when I was a player, the same thing happened to me.

In regards to Milan-Wolfsburg. It is a staring contest, because Wolfsburg does have a great reason to sell, their player doesn't want to stay. A striker is all about confidence, and when you are mad at your club for not giving you what they want, ESPECIALLY when Dzeko knows Wolfsburg can replace him (since they have the money to do so, even before his sale) then how do you think Dzeko is going to be? Even if he's a professional, he could just refuse a contract extension, he could even just play well and leave for free. Hell, Flamini did that.

Ryo, I want to say What is the point of saying "we could have lost this, we would have lost that" when at the end of the day WE DID WIN THE CL, and even if we started on even terms with Fiorentina in 06-07, by winning the CL, we would have grabbed that spot anyways, so it doesn't matter.

Games are won and lost by the slightest of margins. We might as well go back and talk about how many 1-0 wins or loses could have changed our entire history. If that's the case, then Inter should be scared because they have based their domestic success of dodgy 1-0 wins.

The last two seasons have been a disappointment. Talking about Kaka dragging us through games, sure, Celtic was a moment of brilliance, but at the end of the day, the team was designed to support Kaka's runs and his subsequent lazy walk after falling down for a nothing foul. Against the US, there were times when Kaka was clearly fouled, but then when he takes the ball and just runs forward (like a Winning 11 player) and just suddenly stops running, or falls and looks at the referee, it annoys me. It annoys me, because he should know by now that he's not going to get that call, but he keeps doing it. Instead of getting mad and running to grab the ball, he just slowly gets up and walks back.

That is why Guardiola was so great at Barcelona. Messi, Etoo and Henry would be chasing the ball they lost. That is why he didn't have to put so much steel in his midfield in order to compensate for them. A midfield of Xavi and Iniesta, supporting Henry, Messi, and Henry, with only one defensive midfielder? Had Guardiola not instilled that spirit in his front three, Barcelona would have been killed every game.

I swear to God (Wallahi for your Arabic speakers) I have never completely liked Kaka. Sure, when he scores I love him, and I have to say, since everyone is jealous of him, I liked him even more. However, I did not like seeing how Milan played with him. Since Kaka shot to prominence, Milan have been a team that has been stifled in order to ensure Kaka can do what he wants.

I want you to ask yourself, Milan of the 02-03 CL and Milan of the 06-07 CL, who do you think would win? I think it'd be the 02-03, because it was more a of a unit. Pippo and Sheva worked for each other, when they shouldn't have. Rui Costa, while not having the abilities of Kaka, did have the distribution skills that Kaka lacks.

The last two seasons were not indicative of Milan's poor transfer strategy completely (and please stop making fun of poor Oliveira, his SISTER was kidnapped for most of our season, how could he focus on football? Honestly.) the last two seasons showed what happens when your team plays to make sure the World's Best Player is happy. That is two years of suffering, for both the club and the fans.

This process will be tough the next two years, we have a lot of rebuilding to do. And the mistake was to rely so heavily on Kaka, but the reason we did so, was to keep him. Now we have to buy those youth players, we have to promote our youth-products to the first team (isn't that what everyone wanted anyways?) and we have to outline a smart transfer strategy.

Why do we have to do that? Because the affects of the economy will be late onto football. The cracks are showing all ready. Read the news of other teams, Fiorentina talks about bad taxes. Juve talks about a salary cap they want and how they will not buy any more transfers. Liverpool's owners are scrambling for money. The cracks are there, and it will get worse, especially for EPL teams.

Real Madrid? They are a very special case. They will always be that way, the team that gets special treatment from the government. But outside of Man Utd and Real Madrid, clubs are going to start hurting from the ways they are spending, and that is why Milan is shifting its attitude.

Our transfer strategy was late, considering the last few years, but it was done so we could bring in players just to accommodate Kaka. And it's better late then never.

Well, not saying I don't believe in you, but I don't see you making these comments about Kaka or the team when MIlan was winning and Kaka was playing. Whether you like it or not, dissing Kaka now or blaming MIlan's current problem on Kaka is not going to make Berlu and Galli any better. As Kaka was clearly not the problem with Milan over the past few years. BTW, I don't think buying Emerson, or loaning Sheva and Senderous were steps to build a strong team around Kaka.

Maybe Dzeko will force himself to be sold....but do we really want someone who done that to his club? Yeah, he loves Milan.....but what if he forces Milan to sell him next summer? Is that the type of players that Milan should sign? Also, is the Wolfs really playing hard to get with Milan on Dzeko? To me, I think even if Dzeko becomes a MIlan player, it will be b/c Berlu said fine here is 30mil, take it. Instead of come on, 25mil is a great price for Dzeko....

Lastly, I just have to say it, the team in 02-03 will beat the team in 06-07, but you do realize that most of the players on that team are the same, except for Rui Costa-Kaka, Simic-Oddo, Kaladze-Janku, Sheva-Gila/RO/Ronaldo(take your pick). Let me ask you this though, if these four players switch yrs, do you think the team will still win the CL respectively? I think a Kaka/Oddo/Janku/Gila in 02-03 will still win the CL that year, but I doubt Rui Costa/Simic/Kaladze/Sheva can win in 06-07, as I really can't see them providing the magic of Kaka that year, well maybe Sheva can at the end. Nobody knows, the fact is Kaka really carried Milan in the CL win in 07 and nobody can take that away from him.

One last thing, when Milan sold Sheva, I think only Milan fans paniced and the rest of the football world just goes, well, okay....But this time is completely different, players at Inter started to mock us, other teams want to see who is available...and even players like Cap said it will be very difficult for Milan to win without Kaka. If that does not show you how important Kaka is to Milan, i don't know what will.

You can keep going on about Kaka is not a team player, Milan built a system around him that failed....all you want, b/c to me it just shows that you still can't accept the fact that Kaka is gone. Kind of like someone losing a b/f or g/f and only thinks about their seems to be shortcomings instead of moving on with their life.
BTW, do you know the best way to get over a relationship, get a better b/f or g/f. Thats what Milan should be doing instead of playing the waiting game.

Originally Posted by Ryo

Calciopoli, and though I've always believed we were innocent

Although I agree with most of your arguments, the statement above is very naive in my opinion.

Originally Posted by El Fre

Although I agree with most of your arguments, the statement above is very naive in my opinion.

Well, I think Milan was only doing what everyone else were doing, so if everyone were doing it, then I guess it is not illegal, right?