All posts re: the Italian Football Scandal (Moggipoli)

the thing uefa and italian federation now neds to do is to CLOSE DOWN JUVE!!! i dont care about the things they stole so far, stop them and send them to serie C2. but ofcourse,this will not happen, juve is too powerfull, or should I say, Agnielli......

Originally Posted by mrki

the thing uefa and italian federation now neds to do is to CLOSE DOWN JUVE!!! i dont care about the things they stole so far, stop them and send them to serie C2. but ofcourse,this will not happen, juve is too powerfull, or should I say, Agnielli......

Mrki, it will be the first thing i would do if i was powerful and if i had proves.
But read the article carefully and you'll see that there isn't even 0.1% proof for Juve to get suspended.
Pozdrav !

And if we think about it. They had these conversations in March allready, but they are putting them in public just before the end of this season. Why ?
Who are they, and why are they doing this?
I believe we all know who are they, and the reason for doing this is because they know it's all fog, but they still hope they'll make Juventus nervous and put some pressure on Juve.
It is nothing but a pressure on Juventus, absolutely nothing more !

mediaset maybe?

Originally Posted by Graeme C

mediaset maybe?

I really haven't heared about mediaset
But i'm thinking...who had the power to listen Moggi's phone conversations and keep them on tape ??? Who had the power in Italy when these conversations were made, and who gave the order Moggi's phone conversations to be listened !
And who will get the most of it with this being put in public ?

And also : do you think a guy as smart as Moggi would arange the dirty stuff by phone ? He's not stupid, he knows that there is a possibility his phone to be "watched". That's why he made only such hurtless conversations, that can only make "2 days news" and ruin his image ( not that he had good image ) , but absolutely nothing more. It's all fog and dust !

tony29 im reading ur every post but u should read this carefuly. oki

CONVERSATION BETWEEN MOGGI AND PAIRETTO (11th August 2004)

Moggi and Pairetto (the vice-President of the Uefa Referees Commission) speak on the phone about the Champions League first leg of the preliminary round between Juventus and Djugarden which ended 2-2.

Pairetto: Hello
Moggi: Gigi? Where are you?
Pairetti: We left
Moggi: Oh, what kind of f…. referee did you send us?
Pairetto: Oh, Fandel is one of the first…
Moggi: I know, but Miccoli’s goal is valid
Pairetto: No
Moggi: Why not? (…) But then all throughout the match he caused problems to us
Pairetto: I did not like the assistants overall, no, but I was thinking about someone else, the one that had raised was the one of Trezeguet which I remember in front.
Moggi: That is something else (…) Now be careful in Stockholm, eh?
Pairetto: This surely is a match…
Moggi: No, we’ll win, you know…
Pairetto: But they are poor
Moggi: But with someone like this it’s difficult, understood?
(…)

The conversation shifts to a discussion about some summer friendlies:

Moggi: Oh, at Messina send me Consolo and Battaglia
Pairetto: Eh, I already did it
Moggi: And who will you send us?
Pairetto: I think Consolo and Battaglia
Moggi: Eh, with Cassara, eh?
Pairetto: Yes
Moggi: And at Livorno, Rocchi?
Pairetto: At Livorno Rocchi, yes
Moggi: And for the Trofeo Berlusconi Pieri, please
Pairetto: We have not done it yet
Moggi: We shall do it later
Pairetto: Ok we’ll do it later.

CONVERSATION BETWEEN MOGGI, MORENA AND PAIRETTO (24th August 2004 – on the eve of the Champions League second leg match against Djugarden)

Moggi: Hello?
Morena: Mister Moggi, hello. I wanted to announce to you the referee and assistants for tomorrow night’s Champions League match
Moggi: Who’s the referee, Cardoso?
Morena: No, I see Poll Graham’s name
Moggi: Uhm…Where is he from?
Morena: He’s English
(…)
Pairetto: Hello
Moggi: Good morning
Pairetto: Hey there, good morning!
Moggi: Oh, what about Cardoso, eh?
Pairetto: Eh
Moggi: Paul Green (Moggi actually confused Graham Poll with Paul Green)
Pairetto: What?
Moggi: Paul Green
Pairetto: Then something must have happened in the last moment, I have Cardoso, something must have happened… he must have been sick or something like that
Moggi: Inform yourself
Pairetto: Yes yes, I will

Two weeks before the first group match of the first phase of the Champions League (2004/05 season) in program on the 15th of September, Pairetto announces the referee of that match to Moggi (the game ended 1-0 for the Bianconeri)

Moggi: Hello
Pairetto: Hey there, I know you forgot all about me, but I didn’t.
Moggi: Come on…
Pairetto: I placed a great referee for the Amsterdam match.
Moggi: Who?
Pairetto: Meier
Moggi: Great!
Pairetto: You see that I still think about you, even though you don’t anymore…
Moggi: Don’t start, now you’ll see, when I’m back, that I didn't forget you.


CONVERSATION BETWEEN MOGGI AND GIRAUDO (14th August 2004 – the two Bianconeri managers talk about the referee designations)

Giraudo: We see immediately what kind of air there is; you have any news of how the atmosphere is there at Sportilia?
Moggi: Good, good with Gigi (Pairetto)
Giraudo: But it’s not like last year?
Moggi: No, no, with Gigi it’s great
Giraudo: But now we tell him to work hard for this crow, because we cannot go on with this d… head


CONVERSATION ABOUT A CAR FOR AN IMPORTANT FRIEND

Man: Agnelli’s house, good morning
Moggi: Good morning, I’m Moggi. I need Nalla
Nalla: Hello Luciano
Moggi: I need urgently, because we need to do…
Nalla: Yes
Moggi: For an important friend, a Maserati
Nalla: Yes
Moggi: Four-door
Nalla: Four-door?
Moggi: Yes. We give you a week’s time, ten days, ok?
Nalla: Ok

Enzo: Hello?
Pairetto: Enzo?
Enzo: Hello Gigi
Pairetto: Listen, I wanted to tell you that I practically have the car.
Enzo: Which?
Pairetto: So when we want to go pick it up there is practically available the Maserati.
Enzo: Come on
Pairetti: Yes, therefore
Enzo: Madonna!
Pairetto: Now when I’m back home tomorrow I will call directly the Royal House.


Mazzini On Carraro (The FIGC vice-President and Moggi speak to each other on the 6th of September, about the federal elections and a meeting with the referees)

Mazzini: For this ass.... (referred to Carrara), don’t forget that he thinks that, also if he passes like he normally wants, he will win. Instead you must stick it up his a… Don’t forget
Moggi: Ooh if I tell you let me talk to him, then tomorrow I have the appointment
Mazzini: Ok
(…)
Mazzine: On Friday I’ll do the referees
Moggi: On Friday I will come too
Mazzini: I told Anto’ and he told me that he won’t come
Moggi: Let it go, that’s a hybrid environment, the less that someone blends in, the better it is, and it’s not worth it to stay far away: I will make one take part or I will take part, or I will send Alessio


CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN MOGGI AND SON

(10th September 2004)

Alessandro Moggi: …the other day, take it as an information, then I don’t know, I met up with Preziosi (former President of Genoa) as always
Luciano Moggi: Uhm
A. Moggi: He started telling me how football is changing, you must be careful of this and that, Carraro, Galliani, then he tells me not to trust Montezemolo. I ask him why? Because I overheard a conversation at Juve, they want to kick everyone out except for Giraudo
L. Moggi: Yes, but this is b…..
A. Moggi: I’m telling you what I heard, since Preziosi is often in this kind of environment, he’s in it.
L. Moggi: He’s never there
A. Moggi: Well, dad, I’m telling you because...
L. Moggi: It’s exactly the other way round


(19th August 2004)

A. Moggi: Morabito (agent) called me, in particular Vigorelli (agent), to find out if you wanted to make an exchange of loans for Liverani
L. Moggi: No, no. They work for Lazio now?
A. Moggi: What do I know, that’s what he told me
L. Moggi: Damn it, since that one hooked down there, but I want to talk with him, because they gave them Lopez and they want to give them Marquez, eh?
A. Moggi: Eh, I know
L. Moggi: Therefore it’s certain that they managed to get in a little, because they cannot go in much there, unless Cinquini (former Sports Director of Lazio) does not work anymore for Lazio


(28th August 2004) Talking about Miccoli

L. Moggi: I asked Lotito for 10 million and he told me 5, no? You must tell him: look, I can convince my father to do it for 7.5 million. Tell him some stories at the beginning
A. Moggi: Ok

Luciano then calls a friend of Miccoli

L. Moggi: Tell him to be less stupid, otherwise I won’t let him be called up for the National team, so I pass a judgement on him, because I will send him to the National team.


CONVERSATION WITH BISCARDI (TV PERSONALITY AND JOURNALIST)

Biscardi: Hello?
Moggi: Can I speak with Doctor Biscardi?
Biscardi: It’s me
Moggi: I’m Luciano Moggi
Biscardi: Uehh….Lucia
Moggi: So yesterday I called here our friend from Trieste…Baldas (former referee designator and commentator on the TV program “Il Processo di Biscardi”). I gave him a good talking, but there was no need. He does not have any fault
(…)
Moggi: But if he doesn’t come I won’t get anyone else, why should we kill the league off?
Biscardi: No, you won’t kill f…. anything, maybe you killed it off last season, you should give me 40 million, you bet with me and you lost
Moggi: Aldo, but I…you’re like an insured clock, what can I say?
Biscardi: And where is it?
Moggi: And you know that when I tell you…
Biscardi: And I don’t know. You never send it…
Moggi: F… off, I gave you one, it cost 40 million

The thing that galls me is this.

Siena-Juve was a farce and yes Juve have gotten many calls for them all year.

But it is also the bias that media outlets have towards certain teams that really gets me.

Witness channel4...always there to report hollow rumours etc. But if anything puts their beloved Juve in a bad light, forget it getting column inches.

No mention on their site whatsoever. It is all over the Italian media.

Listen , i also dislike this bastard very much because people like him give bad name to Juve, but i really can't see where he said something bad and not allowed.

All these conversations took place at summer, when no football was played, and he never said anything specific. He asked some refs in some friendlies , and that's it. He asked a car about some "friend", and he never said anything about bying some refs.

Yes, yes, we all know he was up to something, but as i said many times before : you can't prove it.
He's a smart little bastard !

Originally Posted by Hasan Rossonero

No mention on their site whatsoever. It is all over the Italian media.

That's the problem. If it happened to Milan, everyone will speak to milan.com



It may be a conspiracy against Juventus, or maybe it's simply the truth. We'll see how it develops.

Oh yeah... that makes me wonder why the referee called it an offside when Sheva scored a goal against Juve in the CL final. Who was the lineman? lol...

This is the problem. Once people thought that refs are for Juventus, any call that is controvesial will be seen as a bias call. I'm sorry, but who ask you the big daddy to get into trouble from the first day? Do you really think it's because people are jealous about Juventus winning 28 SCudetto? is it just Italian culture?

Chill out boy, I don't see such accusation against Man U or Real Madrid. So maybe it's the cultural issue, but hey boy it's simply too handy to be suspicious why people just talk about Juventus.

Chill out folks, more to come...

Originally Posted by Tony 29

Yes, yes, we all know he was up to something, but as i said many times before : you can't prove it.
He's a smart little bastard !

I wish I can say, "Galliani is up to something" but this is simply not true.


hey but I'm grateful. At least Galliani is NOT up to something. I will be devastated if Milan is accused by such statements. I will be ashamed TBH. Whether the news is true or not, I will definitely ponder why people are saying the club's director is buying the referee.

And someone mentioned about Berlusconi, that's what I'm wondering too: if he haD all the $$$, all the power, all the tv network whatsoever, how the hell is Juve still winning more scudetto than Milan?

Originally Posted by Tony 29

Listen , i also dislike this bastard very much because people like him give bad name to Juve, but i really can't see where he said something bad and not allowed.

All these conversations took place at summer, when no football was played, and he never said anything specific. He asked some refs in some friendlies , and that's it. He asked a car about some "friend", and he never said anything about bying some refs.

Yes, yes, we all know he was up to something, but as i said many times before : you can't prove it.
He's a smart little bastard !

you sound a bit like a lawyer - my client was caught with a gun in his hand, standing above the victim, but no one saw him at the moment when he supposedly pulled the trigger, therefore there was nothing arong done by him.
As for how much is enough to prove one's guilt - whether asking for a 200,000 car for a fired called "Gigi" is "nothing" or not - i guess that's yet to be determined by Guarinello and his people. In the end it would probably come to how "clean" the judge is ... whether he is one of those people driving a Fiat Punto or a Mazeratti Quattroporte.

Originally Posted by Tony 29

All these conversations took place at summer, when no football was played, and he never said anything specific. He asked some refs in some friendlies..

he asked for some refs in friendles where he cant achieve nothing, no trophiy no money and what we can expect from him i seria a or CL where he can earn monay from matches???

Originally Posted by Jeff

That's the problem. If it happened to Milan, everyone will speak to milan.com



It may be a conspiracy against Juventus, or maybe it's simply the truth. We'll see how it develops.

Oh yeah... that makes me wonder why the referee called it an offside when Sheva scored a goal against Juve in the CL final. Who was the lineman? lol...

This is the problem. Once people thought that refs are for Juventus, any call that is controvesial will be seen as a bias call. I'm sorry, but who ask you the big daddy to get into trouble from the first day? Do you really think it's because people are jealous about Juventus winning 28 SCudetto? is it just Italian culture?

Chill out boy, I don't see such accusation against Man U or Real Madrid. So maybe it's the cultural issue, but hey boy it's simply too handy to be suspicious why people just talk about Juventus.

Chill out folks, more to come...

There are a loooooot of talks about Real's dirty games in Spain, even more than Juventus' in Italy.
And i'm certanly not a boy, lol,i'm in my early 30's, but i don't mind you calling me that, it makes me feel younger

And i really think i am ( and i was in my previous posts) very objective. I can always admit when Juve didn't deserve to get something and i will always salute Milan about their wins, or admit that they were better than Juve ( as they really were in Europe in last years, or in Italy in season 2003/04, or in the 3:1 win this season)...but almost all of you will never do what i'm always prepared to do.
I bet many of you will find a way to find a suspicion in the 1:6 win in Milan-Juventus at San Siro , 9 years ago !

This is a forum and we can all talk about some issues, but we can't change some things that are beyond us. Even if Moggi is a fraud and he aranged some matches, we can do nothing about that. And if Juventus wins this Scudetto, everyone (except the ones who'll get the 2nd place at the end) will take that as a fact and will forget about all those small talks about Juve not deserving it.

Who won the Scudetto in 2000? Lazio did ! And do you remember that the last Juve game in Peruggia , where they lost and by that they lost the Scudetto, was played on a waterlogged pitch with 0% conditions for a match to take place ? No, noone will remember that except for Juve fans. Just as noone , except you, will remember that a goal for Lazio was dissallowed when Juve won the Scudetto in 2006 ( if it happens ofcourse. Chances are still 70-30 in our favour)

Originally Posted by Jeff

I wish I can say, "Galliani is up to something" but this is simply not true.


hey but I'm grateful. At least Galliani is NOT up to something. I will be devastated if Milan is accused by such statements. I will be ashamed TBH. Whether the news is true or not, I will definitely ponder why people are saying the club's director is buying the referee.

And someone mentioned about Berlusconi, that's what I'm wondering too: if he haD all the $$$, all the power, all the tv network whatsoever, how the hell is Juve still winning more scudetto than Milan?

1. Why did Milan play in Serie B in the 80's ?
2.I will answer your last question with a question : If Juve has all the referees and buys all those matches, how the hell did Milan won the Scudetto in 2004 ? Maybe because they were much better, right ?

My last post here, no matter what, and i promise i will never again enter such discussions like this one. It's too exausting for all of us !

People, you have a beautiful team, that plays the best football in Italy ( but still not the best team, hehe) and that has given you so much joy in your life. So, don't look for reasons about your failures in Moggi or the refs or the birds that fly above us, search it in your team. ( and i know many of you are capable of doing so, since i've been reading you for a long time)

And there is so much hate here about Juventus or Juventini ( Jesus, read Mrki's signature, and i never stole a candy in my life )
It could have easily happened our roles tonight to be different, meaning me to be a Milanista and you to be a Juventino.
My brother started loving Milan because of Ruud Gulit. He adored that guy and if Gullit had chosen Inter instead of Milan, my brother would have also chosen Inter. As you can see, a buterfly effect is needed, and everything would have been different.
I started loving Juve because of the most stupid thing, and it was Vladimir Jugovic joining the club. I loved Jugovic, i loved him in Juve, and then, at certain time when i wasn't even aware of that, Juve got under my skin and i started loving the club.
I bet many Juve fans became ones only because of Del Piero, just as some of you here became Milan fans only because of Gullit, Savicevic and mostly Sheva.

It may sound stupid, but if Sheva joined Juve and Jugovic Milan, tonight i'd have been writing this with a Milan jersey on me, and you would have reading it with a Juve jersey and the name Shevchenko on it.

So, lets not argue please. I know i started everything and i apologize.

Good luck to all of you, may everything you wish comes true ( except for winning this years Scudetto)

Tony, don't make this your last post. You're one of the best Juve fans that's been here, at least for as long as I know. This discussion can go on for days, let's just agree to disagree, all of us. Try to post in other threads, but let's just forget about this one.
And just like you said, I started liking Milan because Sheva came here, and I was a fan of him in his Dynamo Kiev days (even though I was only around 6 years old then). But now I am a Milan fan no matter what, even if Sheva leaves (God forbid)