Manchester United Football Club

Originally Posted by Nata

Yeah he musta been such a legend....I mean he's got like 5 CL cups. BTW ilgenio...Di Stefano had 49 goals in 64 games,and he's 4th on the all time best CL score list.

This is the top scorers list.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../topscorer.jpg

That list is for goals scored in all European competitions (European Cup/Champion's League, UEFA Cup and the now defunct European Cup-Winners Cup). In the Champion's League, di Stefano is still the record holder with 49, though I think Raul & RvN are both on the verge of breaking a record which lasted 4 over decades.

I recalled di Stefano scored for 49 goals in 58 European Cup games for Real Madrid, though I knew he played a total of 64 European games in his career. Perhaps the 6 more games were played in the colors of Espanyol? (Does anyone know?)

Originally Posted by Stezagud

The Busby babes were ready to destroy Reals dominance in 58, if it hadnt been for Munich.....

Not quite Steza. The victorious Real team of 58 had the likes of Di Stefano, Kopa, Rial, Gento, Santamaria, Zarraga... The runners-up were a familiar team in red & black with the likes of Liedholm, Schiaffino, Grillo and a certain Maldini.

The Busby Babes from Manchester were a good team with Edwards, Charlton and company, but I still think the other 2 teams whose names also begin with "M", were better.

Personaly, I do not like to see ''betrayer Luis'' in Manchester...
But Figo has proclaimed [this summer] that he will leave real in decembre or january...

Originally Posted by Rapierist

Yeah. Di Stefano's record. Although I think in that time teams played with no less than three forwards and defenders weren't exactly nutters. Also, you could barge the goalkeeper into the goal along with the ball to score back then, I think.

Well, Di Stefano played in midfield, so he's neither a forward nor a defender. 49 goals in the European Cup and 800+ career goals from midfield are amazing stats indeed!

I've not seen that many footage of the defending in the 50s but I know in the 60s Pele was brutally fouled, kicked, hacked, shirt-tugged, rib-poked in most of the games he played, and his offenders were only booked after commiting their 9th or 10th foul. Considering that Di Stefano was arguably the world's best player before Pele, I won't be surprised if he's the subject of such treatment in the 50s.

Originally Posted by Rapierist

Not much different now, though. Defenders are scared to touch the strikers what with the diving and all nowadays.

But divers also get booked for "simulation" nowadays. IMO, diving will prolong the careers of attacking players and if MvB knew how to dive in his career, we might get to see another 3 to 4 magical seasons from the White Swan.

Originally Posted by Rapierist

The best time for defenders was the 80s. You could kick, body check, make studs up tackles from behind and even knock the teeth out of your opponent's mouth (German goalkeeper Schumacher on the French player). Mind you, forwards did the same to get an advantage on defenders. Remember Norman?

It all ended though, with Norman's and Van Basten's careers coming to an end, because of those tactics.

Schmacher's foul on Battiston was one of the most blatant fouls ever missed by the referee, and there was no review of video evidence in those days, or he would definitely be slapped with a lengthy ban.

I don't think defending in the 80s were much different than that in the 50s or 60s. Basically if you are a star player, you'll get your fair share of fouls and kicks, though the referee tends to protect attackers more in the modern era.

For me, I've always preferred vintage football to the modern football. Technology and medicine have progressed so much in the modern days and that prolongs the longevity of modern players. Modern balls are now lighter, and (if I may borrow a term from Formula 1) have better "aerodynamics". Imagine the kind of swerves and bends those freekick masters of the past like Rivellino, Pele, Zico, Eder can conjure with the modern balls.

Not quite Steza. The victorious Real team of 58 had the likes of Di Stefano, Kopa, Rial, Gento, Santamaria, Zarraga... The runners-up were a familiar team in red & black with the likes of Liedholm, Schiaffino, Grillo and a certain Maldini.

The Busby Babes from Manchester were a good team with Edwards, Charlton and company, but I still think the other 2 teams whose names also begin with "M", were better.

well, what was left of the side after Munich actually played Milan in the semi's and even managed to beat them still in the game at Old Trafford before losing heavily in the San Siro. If you look at the age of the players who died and add them to the players coming through the Utd system (Best for example ) then i dont doubt that they would easily have won more European Cups than the one in 68. Its all speculation though, whats happened cant be changed so its better to look forward instead

Personaly, I do not like to see ''betrayer Luis'' in Manchester...
But Figo has proclaimed [this summer] that he will leave real in decembre or january...

yeah, if he joins then i'll support him like the other players but i wont be at all bothered if he doesnt. We have players to create and score already, its a dominant defensive midfielder thats needed, and i think Figo is too old to try that role

Well, Di Stefano played in midfield, so he's neither a forward nor a defender. 49 goals in the European Cup and 800+ career goals from midfield are amazing stats indeed!

I've only seen a few complete matches from those days but it seemed that Di Stefano's position was similar to Raul when he was at his best a few years ago. Its doesnt matter where he played though, the stats are phenomenal

One thing that did stand out though was how slow the matches were, Madrid vs Frankfurt (7-3) was perhaps the most attacking final ever but the players seemed to just walk into positions, i always wondered how Bobby Charlton had been considered fast but i suppose compared to most players back then he was....

Originally Posted by Stezagud

yeah, if he joins then i'll support him like the other players but i wont be at all bothered if he doesnt. We have players to create and score already, its a dominant defensive midfielder thats needed, and i think Figo is too old to try that role

IMO he is too offensive too...
basically, I supose that no transfers are needed for us for following year... we just need more time to fix quality and eveything will be ok... [btw, Ole should recover too ]

Originally Posted by ilgenio

That list is for goals scored in all European competitions (European Cup/Champion's League, UEFA Cup and the now defunct European Cup-Winners Cup). In the Champion's League, di Stefano is still the record holder with 49, though I think Raul & RvN are both on the verge of breaking a record which lasted 4 over decades.

I recalled di Stefano scored for 49 goals in 58 European Cup games for Real Madrid, though I knew he played a total of 64 European games in his career. Perhaps the 6 more games were played in the colors of Espanyol? (Does anyone know?)

My bad. See ..my friend told me that that was the list[btw he's dutch]..so don't blame my blondeness.

IMO he is too offensive too...
basically, I supose that no transfers are needed for us for following year... we just need more time to fix quality and eveything will be ok... [btw, Ole should recover too ]

we will need to replace Keano at some point the rest of the team are ok though, just a little fine tuning required

Originally Posted by Stezagud

yeah, Big Norm

does he still hold the record for youngest ever player in a world cup?

I think so. Haven't heard of any other player breaking that record recently. I'm not sure though. Don't really like World Cup football all that much.

Originally Posted by Stezagud

back then the "magic of the cup" was still alive and well.

It should still be you know. The oldest cup competition for football in the world. As a fan, I still value an F.A. Cup victory a lot.

Originally Posted by Stezagud

the money they've lost of Veron, Crespo, Mutu etc

They're on loan aren't they? But they haven't shown sparkling form at Milan or Inter (Crespo and Veron), so yeah, looks like they won't be making much money off those two.

Originally Posted by ilgenio

For me, I've always preferred vintage football to the modern football. Technology and medicine have progressed so much in the modern days and that prolongs the longevity of modern players. Modern balls are now lighter, and (if I may borrow a term from Formula 1) have better "aerodynamics". Imagine the kind of swerves and bends those freekick masters of the past like Rivellino, Pele, Zico, Eder can conjure with the modern balls.

Vintage football? I don't know. I mean, I know it sounds all wonderful and all, legendary players and the stories of their exploits, but I don't think in their day they were significantly "more skilled" than the footballers of today.

I know everybody talks about Pele and Best and Rivelinho or Leidholm with dewy eyed nostalgia, but I don't think they were perfect all the time, just like today's players.

They had their good and bad performances, as many missed shots as the top players of today. It is just that everybody just remembers the good stuff.

For example, people remeber lots of good goals from the World Cup. But if you think about good saves or good tackles, you don't remember as many of those.

Originally Posted by Stezagud

One thing that did stand out though was how slow the matches were, the players seemed to just walk into positions, i always wondered how Bobby Charlton had been considered fast but i suppose compared to most players back then he was....

I've always wondered about that too. And also some of the players were so out of shape that they would be considered downright unfit for today's matches. Many players over 30 yrs. of age also had a beer gut

I'm gutted. Absolutely gutted.

This is what it fells like when you get used to success and things start to go wrong.

I got the feeling that towards the end, the team started feeling sorry for themselves. I never believed that a day like that would come. United teams were famed for never giving up the cause. Well......at least the teams from the past 20 yrs or so.

Originally Posted by ilgenio

Schmacher's foul on Battiston was one of the most blatant fouls ever missed by the referee, and there was no review of video evidence in those days, or he would definitely be slapped with a lengthy ban.

I don't think defending in the 80s were much different than that in the 50s or 60s. Basically if you are a star player, you'll get your fair share of fouls and kicks, though the referee tends to protect attackers more in the modern era.

For me, I've always preferred vintage football to the modern football. Technology and medicine have progressed so much in the modern days and that prolongs the longevity of modern players. Modern balls are now lighter, and (if I may borrow a term from Formula 1) have better "aerodynamics". Imagine the kind of swerves and bends those freekick masters of the past like Rivellino, Pele, Zico, Eder can conjure with the modern balls.

They hardly defended in the 50s and 60s. defeding is an art that have gone forward much slower and later. it could be said to break trough in the 70s and had it's peak in 1990 to the point where we had to change rules to make the games more open (3 points, backpass...). I have seen footage from the 60s and before that and can safely say that they had no clue about defending back then.

Hello fellas...
May I join this thread?
I read this topic for the first time.
There's people like me, adore red devils behind I Meravigliosi.
Nice to know you...

I participate despite not liking them. so I am feeling a bit happy now that both them and Real is doing bad. Only problem is that Juve is doing good. And Milan is not in form, but I am sure we can pick up.

Originally Posted by Peachtot

Hello fellas...
May I join this thread?
I read this topic for the first time.
There's people like me, adore red devils behind I Meravigliosi.
Nice to know you...

Ah...yes..just like me

Actually I'm kinda happy that Utd are suckin in EPL...and this might come as a shock to u...but Im starting to like Donkey alot. Hands down to the mightey Donkey!

@ Kris Don't u hate it when Juve is good? Way too good.