Winter Mercato

Originally Posted by MedellínBandit®

Id rather have Villa and take a risk with him compared to Sheva

I agree completely. Villa offers us much more than Shevchenko does, has more pace and is (right now at least) the more dangerous player for defenders to mark.

I'd like to know how long ago the last big Spanish import was, i'm guessing it was Mendieta about 5/6 years ago. Both the Italian & Spanish leagues have changed alot since then, so there's no reason why a Spanish player cannot now succeed in Italy.

Even if he didn't adapt, he'd still be young enough and have enough talent about him to recoup a good percentage of the money we would spend to get him in the first place.

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

I agree completely. Villa offers us much more than Shevchenko does, has more pace and is (right now at least) the more dangerous player for defenders to mark.

I'd like to know how long ago the last big Spanish import was, i'm guessing it was Mendieta about 5/6 years ago. Both the Italian & Spanish leagues have changed alot since then, so there's no reason why a Spanish player cannot now succeed in Italy.

Even if he didn't adapt, he'd still be young enough and have enough talent about him to recoup a good percentage of the money we would spend to get him in the first place.

Nothing of this is writen in stone and it's no guarantee that a Spanish player won't be a success in Italy but lately it has really been the case.
In the past Spaniards did leave a mark in serie A....Luis Suarez, Luis del Sol and Joaquin Piero come to mind. All of them had brilliant careers and had unforgetable years in Juve, Inter and Roma.
But they played in the 60's and 70's.

The last Spanish players in Italy were huge dissapointment.
Jose Mari came to Milan as the most exciting Spanish talent and left as an average striker. Half of Europe was after Javi Moreno who scored 24 goals in his last season in Alaves before Milan finally took him to Italy. In Milan he scored a total of 2 goals.
Gaizka Mendieta was a superstar who took Valencia twice in the CL final. Lazio payed 48m Euro for him..... actually, they payed 48m euro for a player who played only 28 matches for Lazio, scored 0 goals and became a bencher after only half a year. Another super talent from Spain who failled in Italy was De la Pena. He spent only 1 year in Lazio and then he was loaned to Marselle and Barcelona...he played only 16 matches and scored 0 goals in Italy
The other Spanish players in Italy include Farinos (Inter). Inter's bench isn't so warm anymore after he left Inter for Mallorca.

Josep Guardiola is the last one. He did play some good matches in Brescia, but he was 30 when he came to Italy and he was playing for a relegation candidate. Still, he wasn't a star even in Brescia. Played only 24 matches in 2 years and was banned for using Nandrolone.

Originally Posted by Tony29.

Nothing of this is writen in stone and it's no guarantee that a Spanish player won't be a success in Italy but lately it has really been the case.

The last Spanish players in Italy were huge dissapointment.
Jose Mari came to Milan as the most exciting Spanish talent and left as an average striker. Half of Europe was after Javi Moreno who scored 24 goals in his last season in Alaves before Milan finally took him to Italy. In Milan he scored a total of 2 goals.
Gaizka Mendieta was a superstar who took Valencia twice in the CL final. Lazio payed 48m Euro for him..... actually, they payed 48m euro for a player who played only 28 matches for Lazio, scored 0 goals and became a bencher after only half a year. Another super talent from Spain who failled in Italy was De la Pena. He spent only 1 year in Lazio and then he was loaned to Marselle and Barcelona...he played only 16 matches and scored 0 goals in Italy
The other Spanish players in Italy include Farinos (Inter). Inter's bench isn't so warm anymore after he left Inter for Mallorca.

Josep Guardiola is the last one. He did play some good matches in Brescia, but he was 30 when he came to Italy and he was playing for a relegation candidate. Still, he wasn't a star even in Brescia. Played only 24 matches in 2 years and was banned for using Nandrolone.

I'm aware of all of these facts about these players as i alluded to when i mentioned Mendieta's name, so what are you trying to tell me Tony?

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

I'm aware of all of these facts about these players as i alluded to when i mentioned Mendieta's name, so what are you trying to tell me Tony?

Nothing to tell you. I'm just saying that the last 6 Spaniards were flops so it can't be a coincidence.
If it was one or two then we can't generalize but it was 6 of them. I must conclude that the difference between La Liga (Spanish football school) and Serie A (Italian football school) must have been huge in early 2000's so all those players were lost in serie A and great in La Liga.

Still, like i said it's not a rule that Spanish players won't be a success in Italy and you're right when you're saying that with a super striker like Villa a risk deserves to be taken !

Originally Posted by Kaka--7thUCL

Uhm. Do you know how to read? The article CLEARLY said Abramovic was going to ASK sheva himself if he wanted a move to Milan how are Mourinho and Abramovic not going to let him go?

you believed that article? Are you new to the term "rumours"? Tribalfootball is the worst site ever on the whole of the cyberworld and their news is the least reliable ever and i do mean EVER, check out their poor history. You actually think there is any truth in that news?

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

considering we're the European champs and have been making noises about having money to spend, you'd have to say those 4 names are nothing to get excited about. A defender nearing the end of his career, an average midfielder, a young italian player who might need regular games over bit parts and a troubled striker who has lost his head and his game.

It just feels we're always associated with 'comfortable' players, ones who are happy being second best in the squad and not offering anything new.

Your lukewarm response to the list is understandable. However, we have to realize that we've quite a few star players. We, as a club, are striving to add players that will help the cause more than star names.

Let's take Man U. Their strikeforce looked very weak after Rooney. Saha was always injured, and Alan Smith hardly inspired confidence (Fergie even used him as a mid). Solsjskaer was getting up there etc. For them to buy Tevez was almost necessary. I still think they needed a pure finisher, but Ferguson has other ideas.

The same can be said for Liverpool who did well this season, but Benitez bemoaned the "lack of quality" in the team.

We as a team need reinforcements in the goalkeeping, defensive, midfield and forward departments. Therefore, in the striker department, apart from Ronaldinho, our management should most probably go for strikers who can offer more than Oli and not break the bank in the process.

Despite this, Milan have all but promised a big signing for the front-line. So let's see what happens.

Originally Posted by Tony29.

I must conclude that the difference between La Liga (Spanish football school) and Serie A (Italian football school) must have been huge in early 2000's so all those players were lost in serie A and great in La Liga.

Exactly, it was the early part of this decade. Since then both the leagues in question have changed and i for one think that Serie A will now be easier for a Spaniard to handle than it used to be.

Besides, Villa seemed to do ok against Inter in the CL last season

Originally Posted by Hasan

Your lukewarm response to the list is understandable. However, we have to realize that we've quite a few star players. We, as a club, are striving to add players that will help the cause more than star names.

Don't you think we should be aiming higher than this? I'm not asking or indeed expecting us to buy megastar after megastar, but there is definately room for improvement over those names.

There's buying players who won't rock the boat and are the easy option, like Emerson, Motta & Cannavaro. None of which will improve the squad a great deal. Then there's the alternative of buying younger & hungrier players who will offer us more in the long term, like Taiwo, Lucho Gonzalez, Pasqual, Huntelaar, etc. Players who will generally make a difference and won't just be stop gap solutions like the gradually increasing list of desperate transfers we've undertaken in the last few years. You also wouldn't call any of those players star names either, so there's definately a middle ground we should aim for in terms of calibre of player.

i don't think we need big stars to improve the first 11, what i'm missing is a good bench. like Jim_UK said in another thread, the problem is that our best players have to play much too many games and we as a club are too reliant on them.

we need a quality bench to rotate the most important positions so that the players don't get too tired. specially the fullback positions are essential to our game still all our fullbacks are over 30.

i think we need
a striker
a dm
at least one fullback (no matter what side, one for each would be better)

but that will not happen unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

Exactly, it was the early part of this decade. Since then both the leagues in question have changed and i for one think that Serie A will now be easier for a Spaniard to handle than it used to be.

Besides, Villa seemed to do ok against Inter in the CL last season



Don't you think we should be aiming higher than this? I'm not asking or indeed expecting us to buy megastar after megastar, but there is definately room for improvement over those names.

There's buying players who won't rock the boat and are the easy option, like Emerson, Motta & Cannavaro. None of which will improve the squad a great deal. Then there's the alternative of buying younger & hungrier players who will offer us more in the long term, like Taiwo, Lucho Gonzalez, Pasqual, Huntelaar, etc. Players who will generally make a difference and won't just be stop gap solutions like the gradually increasing list of desperate transfers we've undertaken in the last few years. You also wouldn't call any of those players star names either, so there's definately a middle ground we should aim for in terms of calibre of player.

Fair point Jim.

With the amount of competitions we'll be vying for, sometimes I think we should have 5 strikers.

If I were in charge of transfers the first thing I would do this summer is renew Kaka's contract.

Then I would try to sign two of Zambrotta, Cannavaro, Barzagli, and Alex. In midfield I would go for someone who could come in for Ambrosini and who gives us more than Brocchi. Motta or Emerson fit the bill here.

Up front, if I would go for Eto'o, but would also be happy with Cassano/G.Rossi.

I hope that Milan sign at least 2 players this window in the positions mentioned. Otherwise, I think we'll be short when trying to achieve the "grand slam" Pirlo is talking about. Injuries, player form etc. can all play a part.

As for the Villa thing, I too, like Tony29, have reservations about Spanish players making it in Italy. However, Villa is a slightly different kind of player. You know personally I don't rate Spanish players. I think they're overrated, but Villa is a striker who makes very intelligent runs off the ball and is very alert in front of net. I would love that kind of player, and I would be anxious to see how it would work out.

Originally Posted by acdc81

i don't think we need big stars to improve the first 11, what i'm missing is a good bench. like Jim_UK said in another thread, the problem is that our best players have to play much too many games and we as a club are too reliant on them.

we need a quality bench to rotate the most important positions so that the players don't get too tired. specially the fullback positions are essential to our game still all our fullbacks are over 30.

i think we need
a striker
a dm
at least one fullback (no matter what side, one for each would be better)

but that will not happen unfortunately.

But among the top european sides, I think theres no team that depends more upon one player than Milan. If Kaka goes down for an extended period of time, we are a slightly above average team. You look around, and teams like Real Madrid, Barcelona, Inter, Manchester Utd, Liverpool, etc cant suffer one injuty blow without suffering that much.

good point GilAttack!

Hasan, you should not forget GK position. Ever since Buffon renewed his contract, we stopped talking about a new GK. Dida is VERY shaky IMO, and a few good interventions in CL finals made us all forget how unrelialable he can be (ManU 1st game, Bayern both goals)...

Originally Posted by GilAttack [11]

But among the top european sides, I think theres no team that depends more upon one player than Milan. If Kaka goes down for an extended period of time, we are a slightly above average team. You look around, and teams like Real Madrid, Barcelona, Inter, Manchester Utd, Liverpool, etc cant suffer one injuty blow without suffering that much.

That's because no other team has a player that is as good as Kaka, and the teams you mentioned are "slightly above average" compared to Milan...

Originally Posted by GilAttack [11]

But among the top european sides, I think theres no team that depends more upon one player than Milan. If Kaka goes down for an extended period of time, we are a slightly above average team. You look around, and teams like Real Madrid, Barcelona, Inter, Manchester Utd, Liverpool, etc cant suffer one injuty blow without suffering that much.

I see your point and although I disgree about ManU and CR, Pool and Gerrard, Barca and Dinho/Messi, I think what he was saying was that we don't need big stars like Dinho, Etoo ... not that we shouldn't have a wide squad with good, quality players.

After all, we can't aford to have a player who is good enough to FULLY replace Kaka to be happy to sit on our bench and be second fiddle to the Brazilian and get to start only if Kaka is injured ... we can't have a Kaka #2 on the bench but a good, quality player (although not one of the superstardom status and price of Dinho, Etoo, etc) is what we can have to cover for Kaka ... and maybe we already have that player - Gourcuff (and Seedorf could cover in emergencies too).

Originally Posted by Arildonardo

That's because no other team has a player that is as good as Kaka, and the teams you mentioned are "slightly above average" compared to Milan...

also a fair point - Kaka is one of a kind and he is not a player whom one can replace by just going out on the market ... right now he is in a league of his own, so to speak, and offers characteristics that no other player has right now ... so, any team that has him would heavily feel his loss no matter how good the rest of the team is.

Originally Posted by GilAttack [11]

If Inter signs Pato we are doomed

No one here is saying that kind of thing, that's not the point... nevertheless, do you really wanna see the guy joining Inter, and not us? Why Milan cannot sign a VERY promissing young footballer?

BTW: what's the problem in signing one or two big stars? Why not someone like Gaucho cannot play along Kaká?