Official: Yoann Gourcuff PERMANENT TRANSFER to Bordeaux

Seedorf replacement yes; but is he fast? From my memory, he isn't really (not that we need all the fast players; just checking).

I don't know what is this "obsession" about speed of players ... why do everyone speak about that ? I don't understand.

If we use him in midfield (CM) or in the former place of Seedorf in the Christmas Tree formation (so ACM on the left, weird lol), his speed won't be what we need but his vision of the game and his runs will be needed.

Actually, except Kaka' when he is in a very good form and Pato, we never use fast players in midfield, and there's no need to use some as far as these guys are efficient in their roles.

Pretty much the way Milan plays now depends a lot on the gifted, technical skills that we have (e.g., Pirlo, Seedorf, Kaka`) and not so much on speed (like the way that Barcelona played).

The obsession with 'speed' is that it is, I hope you'll agree with me, that it is more effective in breaking down 10-men defenses which is what these smaller teams in Serie A do anyway. I can see how Milan can become much stronger with dynamic midfielders, rather than the static Seedorf; in addition, the speed of a player can also give Kaka` more spaces to run, because speedy (or at least, not lazy) players can run up to create spaces for the likes of Kaka`.

I can also imagine, however, that such strategy is likely to be uneffective in CL when teams can defend very well (e.g., Chelsea against Barcelona), but it's still hard to do.

The key is not so much about whether to go for speed or go for skill; it's more about how to strike a balance.

At the moment, Milan is all about technical skill, but not so much on speed.

J

Originally Posted by Jeff

Seedorf replacement yes; but is he fast? From my memory, he isn't really (not that we need all the fast players; just checking).

This reminds me of something from a several years back when the talented but not fast enough Zidane was not taken into consideration, but "fast" Dugarry was



Who knows.....maybe Galli sells Kaka, buys 3 superclass defenders and Gourcuff turns out to be the best playmaker in the world and Milan starts to dominate in Europe for several years and all of us start bragging Galli & co. LOL

I think the more central issue is the amount of running that a midfielder does, as opposed to his flat out pace.

While pace is certainly important, Seedorf has never been fast. Ever.

What he does have is skill on the ball, a good shot, good passing ability and is able to read the game quite well. While his age, and certainly, the frequency with which he plays, has decreased some of these abilities,we only need recall that in his prime, he was one of the best attacking midfielders in the world.

Ok, so since I think my argument that pace isnt an absoloute necessity for an attacking midfielder is sound, and convincing.........here is the thing:

Gourcuff, doesnt need pace....he is full of running, can beat players, has a great shot, and can read the game....sounds like Seedorf back in the day....

Zidane wasn't quick, but he was the best player of his generation. Not even Kaka, Messi or Ronaldo (pacy players) are in his class.

So far Zidane is the only person that some of you cite that isn't fast/pacy but still do great. And that's because, like Warro suggested, other players around him are fast/pacy. But who else?

I also agree with Warro about the running issues.

But it's not enough to have 1 person running; because that's kind of useless (unless the run is so good that no defenders can catch / defend against it). Man U don't have the fastest runners, but they do have a lot of runners.

We, on the other hands, have no runners, or we have individual runners who don't run as a team. Flamini overlapping with Zambrotta / Beckham, creating space on the right that never got any cross (or if there are, terrible crosses). We have Kaka` running into a wall of defenders, and we have Pato trying to beat 3 players in a row (it's just not going to happen).

We have Seedorf who is concerned about keeping hold of the ball and passing it back to Maldini, then trying to see what options up front we have. I don't blame him, because we have no one upfront.

Maybe it's the way Ancelotti plays the team? I don't know; arrgh don't ask me.

Originally Posted by Jeff

So far Zidane is the only person that some of you cite that isn't fast/pacy but still do great. And that's because, like Warro suggested, other players around him are fast/pacy. But who else?

Rui Costa ?
Rivaldo ?
Figo (not a real ACM) ?

These players weren't so fast (maybe Rivaldo a bit faster than the others). Actually, real ACMs and of course, successful ones, are often slow but have a great vision of the game and can keep the ball ...

We can also cite Diego for example who isn't very fast but he runs all the time, a bit like Gourcuff. The guy that was an idol in Werder and was in the Diego position before was Micoud, slow player too.

Rui Costa, with all due respect, is replaced by Kaka` who is faster and more dynamic. IN FACT, they play well together (that's why I undersatnd why Gourcuff >>> Seedorf).

Rivaldo: He is definitely not slow (until he comes to Milan...)

And actually, same for R80.

Figo: umm...

We can also add Nedved ...
These guys are not monsters of speed.

You don't seem convinced, but I just tried to give you some successful players who played sometimes or all their career at ACM.

Kaka' nowadays doesn't play at all like an ACM and is far to do it: he became some kind of "impact player" (who can be decisive by himself) instead of the player creating for the others, which he tended to be at his start in Milan. I would even say that Kaka' is a mix between a striker and ACM because he plays in he ACM position but he acts like a striker, of course, I'm writing about his current and last performances.

The problem is that Seedorf doesn't create anymore, and with our static midfield and his position, Pirlo can't create anymore too (he needs movement around him and in front of him when he plays so near from the defence, and I think, like a lot of people here, he should be placed more near from our attacking players because he is still able to move and run, he shows it when each time he plays with the Italian NT).

So a midfield with Gourcuff, Flamini and Gattuso could be something amazing at least in Serie A as there would be a lot of runs with them, just add in front of them Kaka' and Pato + an extra player (a second striker OR another attacking midfielder OR Pirlo depending on our formation and the position of Gourcuff) and I think we could see good days back ...

PS: I forgot something, we could see good days back only if we have some almost two teams, we need a real bench with players almost as good as the starters (not like for the last 3-4 years). That means keeping our players, bringing some new ones in the positions we need and using a system of rotation (a real rotation like most of the other big clubs can do and actually do).

PS1: I don't think Kaka' replaced Rui Costa because he was faster and more dynamic but just because he was better at that time and was the kind of player we needed ... which Gourcuff is I think nowadays.

I don't think '10's' needs to be fast. Kaka isn't really a classic playmaker, he's more like a second striker in my opinion, and perhaps a bit unique. Laudrup, Zidane, Rui Costa, those players are classic 10's and non of them are particularly fast.

I always imagined gourcuff would be good playing in Seedorf's role in a 4-3-2-1, right behind Kaka and Pato. Although we really don't need two DM's and Pirlo against most teams.

Yeah, but in a team like ours where we have "slow" players like Pirlo, Seedorf, and a couple of defensive mids who can't really cross (Gattuso, AMbro), we need a fast player who can open up games. This is why R80 is looking a shadow of himself, it's because he's lost his pace.

I love Gourcuff and I think he will do great with us, but we may have to change our system or style of play, perhaps maybe by buying some pacy wingbacks, then we can play Gourcuff and R80 without any problems....Oh, how I regret us not buying Ribery some years ago..

We don't really have to change anything to accommodate Gourcuff. Given that Kaka has been converted to a striker/AM hybrid -an impact player so to speak- , Gourcuff will just play the #10 role behind him. We would still need the 3 central midfielders to provide support in attack and defense.

If Gattuso can regain the sort of form he had at the beginning of this season, then playing Gattuso and Flamini shouldn't affect our attacking game too much. The Gattuso of earlier this season was providing assists and everything, a real box to box mid. Width would come from the wingbacks and Kaka's and Gourcuff's natural tendency to drift all over the pitch. Pirlo would stay more central. I was thinking of something like this:

-----------------------------Pato---------------------------------

---------------------Kaka-----------------------------------------


---------------------------Gourcuff--------------------------------


-----------------------------Pirlo----------------------------------


------------------Flamini-----------------Rino-----------------------


------------------------proper back 4 -------------------------------

--------------------------Abbiati------------------------------------

So what you're saying basically is that Gourcuff replaces Seedorf in our line-up. I agree completely, but do we have enough explosiveness up front to open up defenses? With Pato and Kaka, yes, but what if it was Inzaghi and Kaka?

I think this formation will work only if we get some pacy wingbacks who can actually cross the ball, and maybe a hardworking box to box midfielder, who can also score some goals.

Another way of breaking down tight defenses is having good long distance shooters. This will be extremely useful against those teams that park the bus. With Kaka, Gourcuff, Pirlo and Flamini given orders to shoot at will, this should help break the deadlock.

If we're still struggling to score, we can drop a DM for a striker, push Gourcuff into center mid and play 4-3-1-2.