Winter Mercato

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

Tony, if Mr. X is ronaldinho, I do not jump into the conclusion that all the involved people are lying to us, but for me it means that the unofficial talks which Berlusconi refered to, are either not complete,
Or for an uknown reason it's not the right time to be public.
Tony, such transfers are also very sensitive and they have to be dealt with great care.

Whom do you think Mr X is?

Alot of people are against Baptista coming to Milan and I think the main reason for that is the lack of playing time he has had at Madrid and the season he had with Arsenal.

I think a change in the surrounding may do him good as playing conditions in England is way different to that of Spain and Italy

i just hope we wign some1....and to ppl who said ribery was overpriced..i think u might wanna watch the last couple of games byren played....ive watched all of them so far...and ribery has played amazing....3 goals in 2 games and he runs everywhere..as well as setting up others.

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

I couldnt disagree with you more...but humor me...after R10, who is on the same level, that is available or could be available this mercato?

My point is this: As management have already stated, in particular, Berlu:

There are few "available" players out there of the standard that would improve Milan...especially in the attacking department.

Remember we are talking about a top striker, preferrably(but not exclusively) with Serie A/UCL experience...a proven goal scorer, and further, a player to field alongside Ronaldo, who, unless injured, is an "automatic starter" in our forward line....a player that would complement Ronaldo, and not detract.

I am drawing a blank presently, hence me asking for your assistance....so if you feel that management dont have a "plan B" then u may b right, but I cannot concieve that Berlu et al didnt stop and think: "So..whom should we get if Etoo, Henry and R10 fail to come to Milan?"

hey yeah i didnt mean the same level as Ronaldinho now thats a hard feet Just how we havent been able to secure any of the strikers i listed. There is problem with availability of players at the level we want, and not being able to attract them. However we shouldnt by any means settle for second best.

Originally Posted by MedellínBandit®

Alot of people are against Baptista coming to Milan and I think the main reason for that is the lack of playing time he has had at Madrid and the season he had with Arsenal.

I think a change in the surrounding may do him good as playing conditions in England is way different to that of Spain and Italy

I think most people are affraid of another Oliviera. If baptista hasnt played alot questions should be asked over his match fitness and how long it will take for him to get up to our standard. The again italy isnt a walk in the park..

Originally Posted by remote2book

i just hope we wign some1....and to ppl who said ribery was overpriced..i think u might wanna watch the last couple of games byren played....ive watched all of them so far...and ribery has played amazing....3 goals in 2 games and he runs everywhere..as well as setting up others.

Almost underpriced for a player like that if you ask me.
We really missed out on him, what a midfielder, if only the management could take off those Brazilian glasses.





And, imo, Mr.X is just Galliani's way of saying we still haven't found anyone who is willing to sign for us.

Graziano Pelle, the u21 Italian starlet, signed for AZ Alkmaar for 7.5m euro

Bye Bye Pelle




Hasan, i know you're a huge fan of Italian football and serie A . So am i, and so is everybody else here, considering our favorite teams are from Italy.
We had some disagreements in the past regarding the quality of serie A compared to EPL and La Liga. I won't go there but i'd like to ask you this :

Don't you see this "exodus" of Italian players as a sign that something's wrong ?
4 of the starting XI players for Italy, from Berlin WC final, are now playing outside Italy.
I know that two of them probably wouldn't have left Italy if there wasn't for Calciopoli (Zambro and Canna) but this year two more heroes from Berlin left Italy (Luca Toni in Bayern and Fabio Grosso in Lyon).

This is only one sign that something's happening. The other, even more scary sign imo, is the departure of young stars.
Rolando Bianchi, probably the best young Italian striker, left Italy. Bianchi scored 19 serie A goals last year, he's only 24 and if in some past times he would have signed with Juve, Milan, Inter or Roma by default, this time "we" let him go to England and sign for such an average team like Manchester City, for 13m euro.
Graziano Pelle, 22 years old striker from Lecce, was the best player of Italian u-20 team , 2 years ago, and found himself among the 4 strikers in Italian u21 this summer on EC. None of the Italian giants, not even the mid-table teams wanted to offer good money for him, but Louis Van Gaal has been a huge admirer of the Italian and he did everything to buy him. No Italian team was ready to offer money for the u-21 NT player and the potential senior NT player, but some UEFA cup team like AZ Alkmaar is buying him for 7.5m euro ???

Giorgio Chiellini may easily be the next on the list. Juve rejected the 10m euro offer from Man City but reports suggest that Giorgio will nevertheless finish in Manchester because Eriksson is ready to offer more. Giorgio is the u21 captain and tipped to become star defender. Did the time come when Juve will lose it's players to Manchester City ?

In the past there were Italians who played outside Italy. Zola, Di Canio, Albertini, Vialli etc, but almost always the NT players and the biggest stars were playing in Italy and the above mentioned players were leaving Italy at older age.
Now not only the stars and the great future prospects are leaving Italy but even very good players like Lucarelli (left for Shaktiar Donieck. He was serie A second best scorer in last season) , Abbiatti (Atletiko), De Sanctis (Sevilla) left serie A while players like Cassano, Corradi and few others, are out of Italy for a while now.

I hate this new trend when some of the greatest stars in Italy and the greatest prospects are leaving serie A to play in England, Holland, Germany, Spain or France.
What do you think, Hasan ?

yea tony...this seems to be cuz of i think in other countries tht these players are going to ...the stadiums are always full with people no matter wat and who is playing compare to italy where the stadias are not in the best of shape and hardly fans are there...so i think players like rolando bianchi who i was sadly dissapointed to see him leave think they can be much more famous because of all the media and more exposure to everything.....i mean think abt it lets take bianchi for example how many ppl will cheer for him onces he scores fo man city compare to how many cheered for him when he was in reggina..how many more will buy his jersey when he is in man city compare to reggina...

Tony 29

I will try to address your concerns.

Currently Italian football is going through several problems. Let's briefly talk about them.

1) Calciopoli- The league is still reeling from the scandal of last summer. As you correctly point out Zambo and Canna left because of Juve's relegation, not because of any desire to leave Serie A. However, Calciopoli had a big impact on Italian football's image and impudently mocked the claim that Italians and Italian football lovers love to make: "Serie A is the best league in the world". What the scandal did bring out in the open that matches were being meddled with or fixed, and surely as a player, you must have felt cheated and disgusted.

Calciopoli also had a huge financial impact on Serie A's income. Juve's relegation meant a drop in income for Serie A, and three majore clubs started the season with a points handicap. A level playing field is the minimum any sport should strive to uphold ; Calciopoli, let's say, made the playing field quite bumpy.

2) Italian teams seem to bank on foreign talent before their own- This seems a pathetic situation for me. Napoli should have gone for Bianchi, rather than banking on a relatively obscure talent from Argentina. Similarly, Milan are willing to go--if reports are to be believed--after Baptista, but not Quagliarella or Giuseppe Rossi. Even allowing for all the arguments about the Brazilian's versatility, can anyone say unreservedly that there are not better Italian options out there? Btw these Italian options would be better and cheaper!

The biggest culprits here are our imbecilic cross-city cousins. Can anyone tell me what Inter are good for? Their team is almost entirely made up of foreigners, and they managed to sell a World Cup icon! Why not buy Italian talent? Why give Recoba a prolonged, lucrative contract? I mean Inter only have Materazzi and Toldo!!! This is a big problem.

And we are not innocent in all of this either. Why not move for Italian goalkeepers, who are the best in the world IMO? Instead of renewing contracts of a calamitous specimen such as Dida (please don't crucify me), why not AT LEAST safeguard the future with Amelia...De Sanctis...or keep Abbiati? Why?


3) TV rights- A few posts ago I posted that it was essential to have central marketing of TV rights, if the Italian game is to survive and flourish in the long term. It was received with only tepid approval at best. I have been doing a lot of research on this, and I have discovered some interesting facts.

TV rights for the whole of Serie A come are almost 600 million POUNDS. That's right 600! That means that Italy would enjoy a higher amount TV income than even England did in their FIRST go at collective TV rights. The government's proposal to divide up the goods was as follows:

1) 300 million pounds divided equally between the 20 teams.
2) The other 300 million pounds was to be divided according to the fanbase and final positioning of each team. Makes sense. I mean why should Catania enjoy the same TV income as Juventus. After all Juve has a much larger fanbase. A very small portion of this 300 million was to be devoted for grassroots development of the game.

So according to this proposal, every club in Serie A would be guaranteed 15 million pounds (for some clubs more than 10 times of what they get), while the big clubs would obviously get less than what they get now, but probably more than the top clubs in England (England, according to what I have read, is even more egalitarian in their distribution).

I was having a discussion with Kris about TV rights, and I have to apologize to him/her because I thought Livorno and Catania were spending because TV rights would come into effect next season. They don't. They come into effect in 2010.

Anyway, all the big clubs--Napoli, Juve, Milan, Inter, Roma, Lazio and probably Fiorentina when they decide to vote and not abstain--rejected the proposal.
They had good reason to because a significant chunk of Italians support one of the big 3 clubs, so why should these clubs share so much of the pie with the likes of Empoli?

But whatever happened to the big picture? Where is the solidarity? Where is the farsightedness? I mean the big 3 will always have money, but the likes of Catania and Reggina deserve a shot at building competitive squads and pay them more than peanuts.

What the TV rights acrimony illustrates is two things: 1) Italian clubs refuse to show solidarity 2) the top 3 have a very unhealthy revenue portfolio, which relies on TV rights for 60% of its total.

If the TV rights thing is not passed, OR another incoming government changes it back to exclusive TV rights, then I fear the smaller clubs will not be able to purchase players without the help of rich patrons. And not all clubs have that.

This is a great time for Italian clubs to boost their merchandising sales, something in which they're lacking behind their Spanish and English counterparts. Oh btw, the English model is the way to go, not the Spanish one, where TV rights are negotiated for individually. There too, you now see that Deportivo or Mallorca can barely spend any money on the market. However, the only saving grace there is that there the clubs own their stadiums and are a little ahead of Italy in terms of merchandising.

Alongside, TV rights, the Italian govt. should also really quickly solve the case of stadium ownership in Italy. Currently the city councils own the stadiums, so the clubs not only miss out on some revenue, but also the stadiums are poorly maintained. 1990 was the last time they were renovated!


Some words of hope

We have to remember that Toni, Lucarelli, and Grosso are all 30 or above. Grosso turns 30 in Nov I think. The likes of Pelle moving to AZ is not symptomatic of an exodus because he is moving from Lecce. Obviously AZ have more money than Lecce. The Dutch, French, and German leagues make less than Italy, and their teams are not as rich (in general). However, if a player like Pelle becomes available the TOP club from the Netherlands will obviously have more money than the BOTTOM club from Italy.

Bianchi etc. have left but Tavano and Miccoli have also returned. The football market is a European one, and if a current club does not have room for a player or can't accommodate him for some other reason, then other options become attractive. I really doubt if someone like Sampdoria really showed serious interest for Pelle, the player would pick AZ.

This is from uefa.com:

"Galliani's claim was supported by recent research from Ernst & Young published in the Italian financial newspaper Il Sole 24 Ore. According to their research a team with 24.7 players - 11.1 of them foreigners - everyone earning €500,000 per year would cost €24.8m in Italy, €23.09m in England, €22.5m in Germany and only €19.8m in Spain. The big difference with Spain is down to tax breaks for foreigners, making Spain a lucrative haven for today’s footballers.

Positive outlook
That is not to say the short-term future of Italian football is bleak. The return to Serie A of traditional, wealthy and well-supported teams such as Juventus, SSC Napoli and Genoa CFC 1893 will generate new income and interest. Serie A will also be represented by the ten biggest cities in the country – with the exception of Bologna. Some of the nation’s biggest derbies are back on the fixture list and according to Deloitte, income from television rights, attendance and merchandising will increase by €360m next season. It may take some for Serie A to reestablish itself as THE destination for the world’s best footballers, but it is not a bad start."

Italy is still amongst the top 3 best leagues. They should work together to make sure they don't slip out of that ranking and to return to being the best again.

---Hasan (end of rant)

Originally Posted by Hasan Rossonero

Whom do you think Mr X is?

He might be the one:
http://img257.imageshack.us/my.php?image=124626ej5.jpg

+ rep Hasan

BTW, I remember you saying that you post in and get much of your information from another forum. Do you mind revealing that forum, or is that classified?

I'd play a blindfolded Gila with both feet broken before a 100% fit Baptista

Originally Posted by drucurl

I'd play a blindfolded Gila with both feet broken before a 100% fit Baptista

And that's comming from drucurl??? Dru, did someone force you to say that????? Was it Warro because of the comments towards the Jamaican women you made earlier???

Originally Posted by Vadim

+ rep Hasan

BTW, I remember you saying that you post in and get much of your information from another forum. Do you mind revealing that forum, or is that classified?

I get my info on Spain and England from another forum.

However, as for Italian football, I mainly get my info from Gazzetta, World Soccer (the best magazine in English), watching RAI, and my Italian friends in Canada (those who lived in Italy all their lives).

I have pm'd you the forum.

Originally Posted by nefremo

And that's comming from drucurl??? Dru, did someone force you to say that????? Was it Warro because of the comments towards the Jamaican women you made earlier???

Nah Warro is a cool guy but he can give but can't take.....he could not logically dispute what I said (not about the Jamaican girls thing that was just a joke I'd never intentionally disrespect him or his wife...after all he is my rossonero brother ) so he tried to end it all by saying end of the ot discussion....but if it were some sort of punishment I'd much rather leave this place than be censored for holding my own in a discussion

as for Baptista...I honestly rather Gila to him.....he had a good season playing in a country where a guy who couldn't buy a goal for a whole season (Diego Forlan) ends up being the top scorer....big deal At least Gila has a proven track record of being a consistent scorer.....and under the right conditions...i.e. either the midfield or Ronaldo doing all the work....he can tally up a huge amount of goals....i dislike him because he is a one dimensional striker...i.e can only be on the end of moves or provide very rudimentary roles in the build up play. that and he dives/flops with alarming regularity, disappears in big matches AND has no outside shot....... That said he is a far better player than Baptista because he has many good striking qualities: He has a GREAT first touch, is good in the air, and is a decent finisher......Baptista is good in the air too and unlike Gila, can take a good free kick....but his control is poor and he is an even worse finisher.... considering that Pirlo, Seedorf and Ronaldo can all take good free-kicks the most use he'd be to us is for his strength and aerial ability....but since few of our goals are off headers...this only leaves his strength as a main asset to milan...i think that isn't worth paying for...... better a weak striker like Pippo or Gila....hell we might even get a penalty if they fall