Winter Mercato

Very good and informative post Hasan. I knew most of these things (thanx to you and your previous posts) but i'm thankful for this summary.

As it looks, TV rights were a major problem and i hope Italians borrow the English model if that's what needs to be done to have 7 or 8 strong teams who'll be able to buy very good and expensive players (some 7 years ago Roma, Inter, Milan, Juve, Lazio, Parma and Fiorentina were so powerful that they could have easily spent 20m euro for a player).

I don't know if equal TV rights sharing will solve all the problems, but it will help for sure.
You're right when you say that Pelle would have chosen Samp in front of AZ. But the problem here isn't in Sampdoria not showing big interest, it's in Sampdoria not being able to spend 7.5m on Pelle. If you've noticed, even Milan and Juve don't easily give 7.5m, even less for an unproven , 22 yo serie B player like Pelle.
AZ do have more money than Lecce and they can easily buy Pelle. But that's why Napoli, Sampdoria or Parma should offer more and prevent another Italian talent going abroad. The problem is - they can't.

I don't know what did English teams do but "we" must do the same. I took my time to search for the highest transfers of the Italian and English teams in last 3 years :

Milan - Gilardino 24m euro
Inter - Ibrahimovic 24m euro
Juventus - Vieira 21m euro
Roma - Chivu 18m euro

Now English giants

Chelsea - Shevchenko 45m euro
Man Utd - Rooney 37m euro
Liverpool - Torres 30m euro
Arsenal - Reyes 16m euro ( the sum could have risen to 26m)

Also have in mind that the English giants, apart from Arsenal, have bought many more +10m euro players, which can't be said about the Italian best teams.

This isn't so important though, because i think that Italian giants, especially Milan and Inter could have spent much more if they wanted to.

The real difference can be seen if we compare the smaller teams

Tot'ham - Bent 24m , Berbatov 16m , Jenas 13.5m, Zokora 12.5m, Kaboul 10.5m, Defoe 10.5, Chimbonda 9m
Aston Villa - Young 14m euro, Petrov 12m euro, Reo Coker 12m euro, Baros 10m euro
West Ham - Bellamy 10.8m, Ashton 10.6m, Parker 10.5m, Upson 9m
Manchester City - Bianchi 13.5m , now offering even more for Castillo and maybe Chiellini
Everton - Johnsson 13m , Beattie 9m
Fulham - Kamara 9m
Middlesbrough - Yakubu 11.5m, Woodgate 10.5m, Huth 9m,
New Castle - Owen 25.5m, Martins 15m, Luque 14.2, Parker 10m, Barton 8.5m
Portsmouth - Muntari 10.2m, Utaka 8.8m, Nugent 8.8

Even teams like Wigan spent €8m for Heskey and 7.8m for Koumas, Sunderland payed 8m for Richardson and 7.5 for Chopra

Now Italian teams
Fiorentina - Bojinov 13m, Toni 10m, Mutu 8m
Lazio - noone for more than 5m
Livorno - Tavano 6m
Palermo - Amauri 8m, Simplicio 5.5m, Miccoli 4.3m
Parma - Reginaldo 4.5m
Sampdoria - Bonazzoli 4.5m
Udinese - the highest amount they payed was for Quagliarella 7.5m, but i doubt they payed because they plan to keep him.
Torino - noone for more than 5m


See the difference ? English teams were paying more than the Italians even in the 2 years before Calciopoli, so the problem must be somewhere else !

Could Mr. X be Diego from Bremen?

I heard his name mentioned by some Milan fans on Milan channel. Is he non-EU?

I would be happy but he is not a striker Hasan he plays more like Pirlo.

Originally Posted by hitmannq8

I would be happy but he is not a striker Hasan he plays more like Pirlo.

Yeah, but Gazzetta seems to think that the player being worked on could be Motta! That's our mister X. Oh man, I hope that's not true!

Yeah Diego is not really a striker, but if Milan are looking for a "vice-Pirlo" then he and Deco seem to be available. I know the 3 players have fairly different characteristics, but it's hard to find someone like Pirlo.

@Tony29

TV rights will solve a lot of the problems.
However, stadium ownership and merchandising are important too, and English clubs (all of them) are ahead in that.

That's why the Euro2012 failed bid was such a loss to Italy because it prevented much needed government funds to rebuild stadiums. Melandri has to walk the walk, and she should really help clubs buy their stadiums from the council.

Remember, clubs in the Prem, each of them get 30 million POUNDS guaranteed a year!!! And they have full houses! All that helps. Furthermore, they don't have much advantage when it comes to taxes, as Italy's and England's tax rate is virtually the same.

IMO all this Mr. X talk is crap.
I know that the press likes to link many players to Milan, but the ones they put really su*k.
Now, we havent heard much about David Villa, hopefully its him if we fail to land the other guys (Eto'o, Ronaldinho, Drogba, Sheva, etc...)

Originally Posted by zlatanov

what I think the answers are (no 100% guarantee, though):

1) yes, the list of players that a club wants to register with the FIGC is usually submitted on the day of the deadline - or a day earlier - for transfers set by the FIGC - August 31st, I think.
So, by then, Etoo would have his EU pass and will be registered at the FIGC as a EU player and Milan can buy/register another non-EU player from any country outside or part of the EU.

For instance Inter have already bought Nelson Rivas from River Plate and if they loan him out, they can still get another non-Eu player.

In fact, a club can buy as many non-Eu players as they wish as long as they register only 1 of them with the FIGC on August 31st.

I don't believe it is like this. Transfer papers are normally registred when the player moves, they don't wait for some serie A registration, in fact this 31th of august registration for serie A doesn't exist. Players already playing for the club don't need to be registred, in contrast to champions league you don't send in a squad list of players to register for the competition. A transfer of course needs to be sent in and registred with the federation, but I do not think there is anything saying the club can't wait with that registration if needed.

If we are waiting for some players to get their eu passport (like Galliani have hinted) then what you said doesn't make much sense, since there would be no need to wait at all.

There is of course one other option, that is that the player in question can't get his [spanish] passport if he already moved to Italy...

someone please post a list of the possible MR X.... im going crazy trying to figure it out

Originally Posted by kris

I don't believe it is like this. Transfer papers are normally registred when the player moves, they don't wait for some serie A registration, in fact this 31th of august registration for serie A doesn't exist. Players already playing for the club don't need to be registred, in contrast to champions league you don't send in a squad list of players to register for the competition. A transfer of course needs to be sent in and registred with the federation, but I do not think there is anything saying the club can't wait with that registration if needed.

I am sure it is the way I said it, kris.
there is a deadline for teams to present a list of their squads to the FIGC and I am pretty sure that coincides with the last day of the transfer period ... which in itself is exactly that - a deadline for teams to figure out their squads and submit the registrations to the FIGC.

whether that club needs to send in only the registrations of the new players that doesn't change anything here as this whole question/issue concerns new acquisitions anyway ... it all has to be done and dusted by the transfer deadline, however, and if the it's missed, that club would have to wait till the next transfer window to register that new player in order for him to be eligible to play in Serie A.

beyond that deadline, teams can only sign players who are free agents i.e. without a club and even then they have to be registered with the FIGC in order to be eligible to play for that club in the Serie A.

In fact, the CL list of players can only include players who are already registered with the local federation, in Milan's case this is the FIGC - this you can find in the UEFA rules for CL registration.

If we are waiting for some players to get their eu passport (like Galliani have hinted) then what you said doesn't make much sense, since there would be no need to wait at all.

I am not sure I follow you here - Milan is waiting to see if that player can get a Eu pass but that wiat is limited - deadline is last day of transfer window i.e. august 31st.

If the Eu pass doesn't arrive by then, Milan will have to register that player as a non-EU player and thus will not be able to make any other tranfers involving non-EU players until next summer ... which would practically make it impossible for us to get Pato in the winter, hence the big issue around that Eu pass - will it arrive on time (before August 31st) or will it not.

As for why Milan isn't announcing that Mister X now and only wait and see if his Eu pass comes in time, it really depends on who Mister X is - if he is Etoo or Dinho, then the "waiting" is probably due to the difficulties involved in realizing such a transfer and not necessarily if they get a Eu pass or not.

while if it's someone like Baptista, Milan may well be willing to get Baptista only if he becomes an Eu player, and if he doesn't, Milan may not be willing to spend a non-EU spot on him but prefer to reserve it for Pato.

In the end, it all comes down to who Mister X is - if he exists at all - and how keen are Milan on getting Pato i.e. are they willing to not make any tranfers of non-EU players now but wait till the winter in order to go with the youngster.

Originally Posted by Hasan Rossonero

Tony 29

I will try to address your concerns.

Currently Italian football is going through several problems. Let's briefly talk about them.

1) Calciopoli- The league is still reeling from the scandal of last summer. As you correctly point out Zambo and Canna left because of Juve's relegation, not because of any desire to leave Serie A. However, Calciopoli had a big impact on Italian football's image and impudently mocked the claim that Italians and Italian football lovers love to make: "Serie A is the best league in the world". What the scandal did bring out in the open that matches were being meddled with or fixed, and surely as a player, you must have felt cheated and disgusted.

Calciopoli also had a huge financial impact on Serie A's income. Juve's relegation meant a drop in income for Serie A, and three majore clubs started the season with a points handicap. A level playing field is the minimum any sport should strive to uphold ; Calciopoli, let's say, made the playing field quite bumpy.

2) Italian teams seem to bank on foreign talent before their own- This seems a pathetic situation for me. Napoli should have gone for Bianchi, rather than banking on a relatively obscure talent from Argentina. Similarly, Milan are willing to go--if reports are to be believed--after Baptista, but not Quagliarella or Giuseppe Rossi. Even allowing for all the arguments about the Brazilian's versatility, can anyone say unreservedly that there are not better Italian options out there? Btw these Italian options would be better and cheaper!

The biggest culprits here are our imbecilic cross-city cousins. Can anyone tell me what Inter are good for? Their team is almost entirely made up of foreigners, and they managed to sell a World Cup icon! Why not buy Italian talent? Why give Recoba a prolonged, lucrative contract? I mean Inter only have Materazzi and Toldo!!! This is a big problem.

And we are not innocent in all of this either. Why not move for Italian goalkeepers, who are the best in the world IMO? Instead of renewing contracts of a calamitous specimen such as Dida (please don't crucify me), why not AT LEAST safeguard the future with Amelia...De Sanctis...or keep Abbiati? Why?


3) TV rights- A few posts ago I posted that it was essential to have central marketing of TV rights, if the Italian game is to survive and flourish in the long term. It was received with only tepid approval at best. I have been doing a lot of research on this, and I have discovered some interesting facts.

TV rights for the whole of Serie A come are almost 600 million POUNDS. That's right 600! That means that Italy would enjoy a higher amount TV income than even England did in their FIRST go at collective TV rights. The government's proposal to divide up the goods was as follows:

1) 300 million pounds divided equally between the 20 teams.
2) The other 300 million pounds was to be divided according to the fanbase and final positioning of each team. Makes sense. I mean why should Catania enjoy the same TV income as Juventus. After all Juve has a much larger fanbase. A very small portion of this 300 million was to be devoted for grassroots development of the game.

So according to this proposal, every club in Serie A would be guaranteed 15 million pounds (for some clubs more than 10 times of what they get), while the big clubs would obviously get less than what they get now, but probably more than the top clubs in England (England, according to what I have read, is even more egalitarian in their distribution).

I was having a discussion with Kris about TV rights, and I have to apologize to him/her because I thought Livorno and Catania were spending because TV rights would come into effect next season. They don't. They come into effect in 2010.

Anyway, all the big clubs--Napoli, Juve, Milan, Inter, Roma, Lazio and probably Fiorentina when they decide to vote and not abstain--rejected the proposal.
They had good reason to because a significant chunk of Italians support one of the big 3 clubs, so why should these clubs share so much of the pie with the likes of Empoli?

But whatever happened to the big picture? Where is the solidarity? Where is the farsightedness? I mean the big 3 will always have money, but the likes of Catania and Reggina deserve a shot at building competitive squads and pay them more than peanuts.

What the TV rights acrimony illustrates is two things: 1) Italian clubs refuse to show solidarity 2) the top 3 have a very unhealthy revenue portfolio, which relies on TV rights for 60% of its total.

If the TV rights thing is not passed, OR another incoming government changes it back to exclusive TV rights, then I fear the smaller clubs will not be able to purchase players without the help of rich patrons. And not all clubs have that.

This is a great time for Italian clubs to boost their merchandising sales, something in which they're lacking behind their Spanish and English counterparts. Oh btw, the English model is the way to go, not the Spanish one, where TV rights are negotiated for individually. There too, you now see that Deportivo or Mallorca can barely spend any money on the market. However, the only saving grace there is that there the clubs own their stadiums and are a little ahead of Italy in terms of merchandising.

Alongside, TV rights, the Italian govt. should also really quickly solve the case of stadium ownership in Italy. Currently the city councils own the stadiums, so the clubs not only miss out on some revenue, but also the stadiums are poorly maintained. 1990 was the last time they were renovated!


Some words of hope

We have to remember that Toni, Lucarelli, and Grosso are all 30 or above. Grosso turns 30 in Nov I think. The likes of Pelle moving to AZ is not symptomatic of an exodus because he is moving from Lecce. Obviously AZ have more money than Lecce. The Dutch, French, and German leagues make less than Italy, and their teams are not as rich (in general). However, if a player like Pelle becomes available the TOP club from the Netherlands will obviously have more money than the BOTTOM club from Italy.

Bianchi etc. have left but Tavano and Miccoli have also returned. The football market is a European one, and if a current club does not have room for a player or can't accommodate him for some other reason, then other options become attractive. I really doubt if someone like Sampdoria really showed serious interest for Pelle, the player would pick AZ.

This is from uefa.com:

"Galliani's claim was supported by recent research from Ernst & Young published in the Italian financial newspaper Il Sole 24 Ore. According to their research a team with 24.7 players - 11.1 of them foreigners - everyone earning €500,000 per year would cost €24.8m in Italy, €23.09m in England, €22.5m in Germany and only €19.8m in Spain. The big difference with Spain is down to tax breaks for foreigners, making Spain a lucrative haven for today’s footballers.

Positive outlook
That is not to say the short-term future of Italian football is bleak. The return to Serie A of traditional, wealthy and well-supported teams such as Juventus, SSC Napoli and Genoa CFC 1893 will generate new income and interest. Serie A will also be represented by the ten biggest cities in the country – with the exception of Bologna. Some of the nation’s biggest derbies are back on the fixture list and according to Deloitte, income from television rights, attendance and merchandising will increase by €360m next season. It may take some for Serie A to reestablish itself as THE destination for the world’s best footballers, but it is not a bad start."

Italy is still amongst the top 3 best leagues. They should work together to make sure they don't slip out of that ranking and to return to being the best again.

---Hasan (end of rant)

wow, i mean WOW! !!!!!!!!!!!!! Best post I ever read on here!!!!!!!!!

Are you a professional Serie A pundit?!?

Thanks for the kind words Russo-Neri.

Tony29, some good news:

La Juve dice no a Eriksson
Cobolli Gigli: Chiellini ce lo teniamo

di Marco Gervino

"Non esiste alcun caso Chiellini, i dieci milioni di euro offerti dal Manchester City sono una cifra, ma lui e' un ragazzo importante nella nostra difesa". Con queste parole il presidente bianconero Giovanni Cobolli Gigli, poco prima dell'ingresso in Lega Calcio a Milano, ha voluto chiarire la situazione legata a Giorgio Chiellini. Il difensore toscano, che aveva manifestato il suo disagio la scorsa settimana, sembra ancora intenzionato a lasciare la Juventus. La società ribadisce che è incedibile, ma anche queste ultime dichiarazioni lasciano trasparire che la porta non è chiusa del tutto.

Indipendentemente dall'eventuale cessione di Chiellini, Ranieri desidera ancora un tassello per blindare la sua difesa già rinforzata dagli innesti di Grygera e Andrade nonché dai rientri di Criscito e Molinaro. "Al momento non abbiamo bisogno di difensori" ha precisato il presidente bianconero, tuttavia la società si sta muovendo con decisione sul mercato d'Oltremanica. I nuovi obiettivi sono infatti Philippe Senderos, ventiduenne centrale svizzero dell'Arsenal, e Gabriel Heinze, argentino classe '78, in forza al Manchester United. Definitivamente tramontata invece la pista che portava al clamoroso ritorno di Fabio Cannavaro. Sul pallone d'oro e su Cassano, Cobolli Gigli è categorico: "E' impossibile che arrivino alla Juve, non sono nostri obiettivi".

---

tgcom.it



Also from calciomercato.it:

Agente Kakà: "Aspettiamo una chiamata del Milan"

MILANO - Il procuratore di Ricardo kakà, Stefano Paolillo, intervenuto ai microfoni di 'Sky', ribadisce l’incedibilità del Milan per l’asso brasiliano, ‘aspettando’, comunque, una chiamata della società rossonera a proposito di un prolungamento dell’attuale contratto in scadenza nel giugno del 2010. “È inutile ribadirlo: Kakà resta al Milan e non solo per la prossima stagione - dice l’agente – Kakà sarà il simbolo del Milan per tanti anni, non c’è nessun’altra squadra nel suo futuro. Il Real Madrid ha provato in tutte le maniere a portarlo via al Milan, ma Berlusconi e Galliani lo reputano incedibile. Calderon gli offriva di più? Aspettiamo una chiamata da parte della dirigenza del Milan per il nuovo contratto, ma non saprei dire se la proposta rossonera possa pareggiare quella degli spagnoli”, spiega Paolillo.

------

The article means 2011 not 2010. In short: Kaka's agent says that there is no other team in Kaka's future but Milan, and Kaka will be the symbol of Milan for many years.

He then says they're waiting for Milan to call them to renew their contract, but he doesn't know if it will match Real's offer.

Tgcom.it and gazzetta speculate that there has already been contact for a new contract. tgcom.it says Kaka may earn 7.5 million euros + various bonuses, which would move him closer to 10 million!

I thought Kaka's agent was Bosco Leite, his dad. He must have more than one...I remember reading that somewhere.

Mr. X should be Baptista.
AS for signing Dinho or Eto, it will be sat the end of August, as Barcelona have both of the included in the contract in their Asian Tour

BTW, great post Hasan

I fully support signing Dinho, don't think we need more attackers, we have Gila, a gauranteed 15 goal + per year scorer, ronaldo, supposedly in great shape, and the always reliable Inzaghi.. I'd get Dinho, strengthen our midfield, maybe possibly even pato as an attacker.. again, great post Hasan took a while to read it, was worth it though

Why not sign an EUROPEAN player by now, and Pato in january?

That made no sense, I think you meant why not sign a non european player now and pato in january.. Pato is non-eu meaning if we buy him in JAN. our non eu spot is still not taken up for this summer mercato, limiting out options in january..just saying, I might be misunderstanding, newais, WHOS THIS MR.X? DID WE SIGN SOME1 AND MILAN IS USING A MR.X TO COVER ? lol inform me dont feel like going back all these pages XD