Sheva is better than van Basten (?)

Ok.... u know what, show me where did I contradict myself and I will publicly admit my mistake.... 'till then don't annoy me by telling me "u cotradict yourself"!

60 over posts of discussions?? In short, Sheva is the most complete striker in world football today, but Marco is the most complete striker in world football of all time. With due respect to Sheva, there is simply no comparison.

Originally Posted by Sash21

Ok.... u know what, show me where did I contradict myself and I will publicly admit my mistake.... 'till then don't annoy me by telling me "u cotradict yourself"!

Well firstly I got confused when you and someone else were talkin about the issue of what is a strong club and if it had any relativity to players on these clubs getting a Golden Boot award. Someone produced some names of players from clubs during the Soviet era of football to open the debate. You then counterpointed by saying that Dynamo at the time in the 60's or 70's or something like that were really big clubs at the time. What got me confused was that you failed to mention Dynamo being an exceptional club during the late 90's when Shevchenko was still playing in Kiev. Wouldnt you agree that you might have failed to mention or give any credit to the Dynamo of the late 1990's as being no less smaller than the Dynamo of past times?? Especially when you are trying to back up Shevchenko being a great player maybe even better than MVB? I wont go far to say it was a contradiction but more that the argument lacked fluidity. That can happen for many reasons, beyond our control. One reason might be when trying to respond to one persons message and others interpret it that you meant that post to respond to to specifically their message.
I'm glad that you specifically have not told me to "shut-up". But at the same time we do have a decorum and set of rules when responding to each other. I know it can be frustrating to get your message across so that people can comprehend. I get angry also when people dont catch my point. All of us here do. But we cant go around telling people to shut-up or stuff like that. I read a post from another thread where a guy is telling another person to F-off and die over a simple disagreement. Listen if there is anything harder than understanding and comprehending a foreign language amongst two people speaking in different tongues, it is understanding and comprehending the writing of others. Sometimes I dont understand my own writing that I look back upon. My advice is be patient and stick to one central argument or point that you are trying to convey. That way it is at least consistent.
Lastly you got to bury the hatchet cause we have critical discussions and debates like this all the time and if we always get angry with each othre like that, this site will no longer be fun or successful. What do you say?? Deal?

Originally Posted by rae

to light the discussion

http://media.goal.com/200407/1828_bb.wmv

http://media.goal.com/200407/1722_bb.wmv

Thanks Rae. Here is my point. Shevchenko's goals are fantastic. I'm not going to take that away from him. Now through the eyes god has given me and myself as a witness to having the privledge to watch Marco play it is my OPINION that he was a better player. But when I start giving the rationale like because he plays in Holland that is why he got the Golden Ball, the argument is wide open for people to disagree. And they will. And you gotta be able to accept that there will be those who will disagree.

Originally Posted by Sash21

Ok.... u know what, show me where did I contradict myself and I will publicly admit my mistake.... 'till then don't annoy me by telling me "u cotradict yourself"!

We allready did, but Kui also pointed out inconsistancies in the post before this one.

Sash, I don't care if you are inconsistent. If you, for example, want to argue that Brncic was the best ever Milan player, go right ahead. But do respect that fact that other people are entitled to their opinion, that may be very different from yours.

I am more than willing to admit that I have been inconsistent and lose my train of thought when developing an argument Henrik. I'm not going to be stubborn in denying this. I'm just saying we kind of got out of hand here and am trying to bring some tranquility back here. Thanks.
FORZA MILAN!

Henrik common man. He's not saying Brnic was the best player for Milan. Putting words into something he did not say is not going to help. Agreed?

Originally Posted by iregk

Kui your right in fairness. I let that get a rise out of me which ordinarilly i wouldn't do but when your writing that from your desk in work in the midst of what is vastly becoming a crap day and the end of a crap week you can understand where it came from. It caught me at a bad time.

By the way, your answer a few posts back was beautifully diplomatic. Ever think of joining the UN?

Well I'm not really big on the UN. And I like anyone else can be very undiplomatic. But we are all Milan fans and shouldnt be tearing at each others throats. Maybe this is like a phenomenon that exists within families. All families have their big cat fights. That could be it maybe?

Originally Posted by Kui

Henrik common man. He's not saying Brnic was the best player for Milan. Putting words into something he did not say is not going to help. Agreed?

Either I was unclear or you are misreading my post. I am not trying to say that it is Sash's opinion that Brncic is the best Milan player ever, only that he is entitled to have whatever opinion he wants to (Brncic, was just an example).

The point is that we have to respect the opinion of others, and not boil over anytime someone disagrees.

Ok I see what you are saying now. And it will be a good example for all to see that me and Henrik didnt end swearing at each other because I didnt get his point earlier. He did the gentalmanly thing with class and patience to reclarify his point. Cheers and many mojo to you Henrik!

FORZA MILAN!

I don't know what the argument is about. We've had both of them play for us. We should just be happy about that, that in 40 years time, you'll be telling your children that you saw such brilliant strikers play for the club.

We had a great striker. Sadly we lost him to injury. But we now have another, who continues to bring us joy.
So just catch the match on the weekend, and enjoy Shev's skills, and after that is over search for a few replays of Marco's goals over the net
There really is no reason to squabble. It just serves no purpose.

You're right there really shouldnt be any argument. I think we all fell victim to the title of the tread "Who is better..." causing us to go and make a decision one over the other. I would agree that no matter what reason or rationale we gave to who is better, those who disageed can come up with the same reasons. That is why case in point I just ended up saying from using only my eyes I thought in my opinion Marco was better. No one can argue with that. No one could argue if someone felt the same way about Sheva. Just happen like that Bammmmg a bomb went off and it took a life of its own. But these things happen like they would with family no? The biggest cat fights happen in the family and maybe that is the dynamic anomaly we witness here time and again.

I think most people handled this debate topic well.

Let's just remember that football is an art and not a science. Opinions are almost by definition personal and subjective. If you like Sheva better, fine, if memories of Van Basten warms your heart more, that is fine too.

Even if discussions like this have a tendancy to never end, they can still add value by bringing up "supporting evidence" that all members are not aware of.

Back to the poll question: 1) As Johan pointed out, it makes little sense to vote for Sheva just because you never saw Van Basten play. Then not voting seem a better option. 2) Van Basten certainly got more international attention and recognition that Sheva has so far (3 player of the year awards if I am not mistaken).

I think we can all agree on one thing though, we want Sheva to leave a legacy bigger than Van Basten Whether that is likely to happen or not is still up for debate.

I think this thread is getting back to its friendly best...

Originally Posted by Kui

Can Sheva be greater than MARCO VB? Yeah. I'd like to see it. Than we dont need to argue about this anymore.

I dont think any Milan fan would disagree with what you are saying Henrik. Sheva surpassing MVN legacy will add to the glory and successes of this venerated team. We all would be more than happy to see that.

FORZA MILAN!