Nadir

Kui · 05-09-2005, 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susi

I also agree with Kui, that in the members lounge may are also threads included, which can be boring/upseting for other members, but as long as that kind of threads did no get or got/create/created any complains its ok for me. As Reza stated, if they would get or got any complains, they should get shut down too, no doubt about it.
But overall most of that threads are "harmless" and do not create bitterness, hard fronts, headed up discussion and a bad atmospheare, like any kind of political discussion/thread can do.

But as I said above, is only my personaly point of view, so my suggestion to the admins is.....let the members here decide, if there is a need for a special subforum to discuss politics or not at MM. This can be easily made with a poll.

Well I'm glad you've come open and discussed this. But keep in mind that what I am trying to say is that we do have other threads open in this forum that are equally offensive as anything political. The football talk alone can get nasty with people saying stuff like "Vieri is sh!t and should die!". But I'm not advocating closing any of it down. There is a lot of stuff I dont think should be in this forum, but you dont see me crying and b!thcin to the administrator or any moderators to get them closed do you???. I simply dont even go in them. Anyone can change the channel and simply abstain from reading any of it. Tell me this isnt so??? Explain this to me better because the excuses coming to me are so inconsistent. If we conclude to close some discussions I like to get engaged in on the account of the displeasure of some members here, whats to stop me from being sour woos as well and call for things to close that I dont like??? Talk about tolerance! Lets just be tolerant to things we only agree on. Is that it??? Am I to believe it that I'm causing problems here??? If that's the case then ask me to leave MilanMania. But you cant be serious by putting a double standard on discussions here. What I beleved and felt that made this forum great is that it is an open forum of Milan Fans who can talk about a wide range of things including football. People talk about books, music, jokes, stories, tv shows, movies, porn stars, their homes, and most importantly their ideas including political thoughts. I think people need to seriously think about this cause talking just about football is boring. If you guys think otherwise, then lets just be puritan about the whole thing and close all things not pertaining to football. Of course this is what some of you folks are telling me... no???
Thanks for bringing these things to the table. I unfortunately disagree though on some of it.

Kui · 05-09-2005, 04:34

Well I was busy sunday morning with some community volunteers and raised something like $13,500 and some change for the disaster relief. Some local textiles donated some 500 towels as I understand the people from New Orleans badly need this.
On a personal note I was able to get a hold of a Mr. Don De Beaumont, an african american man over fifty years senior my age but nonetheless a dear friend. He was lucky to get out of the disaster alive and I'm glad he got a hold of me. He graciously accepted my offer by coming to Hawaii as a guest for as long as he wants to. He was at first reluctant as he told me because of his age he could die anytime. He was also reluctant because of our age difference and was sensitive to getting in the way and all that. So I got him the next best thing. My parents who are nearing retirement were more than happy to have him stay at their place for as long as he wants. We told him if he wanted to spend the remaining years of his life here, we dont mind one bit.
He lost everything in this storm. His wife died a few years ago and his most prized possesion wasnt the house or his car but his photo albums of him and his wife. We told him he's part of the family and consider us his nieces and nephews. I'll be picking him up inn about 8 hrs or so and will drop him off at my parents residence. I'm so happy this mentor in my life is going to stay here!

rae · 05-09-2005, 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kui

Well I'm glad you've come open and discussed this. But keep in mind that what I am trying to say is that we do have other threads open in this forum that are equally offensive as anything political. The football talk alone can get nasty with people saying stuff like "Vieri is sh!t and should die!". But I'm not advocating closing any of it down. There is a lot of stuff I dont think should be in this forum, but you dont see me crying and b!thcin to the administrator or any moderators to get them closed do you???. I simply dont even go in them. Anyone can change the channel and simply abstain from reading any of it. Tell me this isnt so??? Explain this to me better because the excuses coming to me are so inconsistent. If we conclude to close some discussions I like to get engaged in on the account of the displeasure of some members here, whats to stop me from being sour woos as well and call for things to close that I dont like??? Talk about tolerance! Lets just be tolerant to things we only agree on. Is that it??? Am I to believe it that I'm causing problems here??? If that's the case then ask me to leave MilanMania. But you cant be serious by putting a double standard on discussions here. What I beleved and felt that made this forum great is that it is an open forum of Milan Fans who can talk about a wide range of things including football. People talk about books, music, jokes, stories, tv shows, movies, porn stars, their homes, and most importantly their ideas including political thoughts. I think people need to seriously think about this cause talking just about football is boring. If you guys think otherwise, then lets just be puritan about the whole thing and close all things not pertaining to football. Of course this is what some of you folks are telling me... no???
Thanks for bringing these things to the table. I unfortunately disagree though on some of it.

You are not the one who causes trouble here. People think that if we avoid special thread or even subforum about politics it wont be disscussed about it anywhere in Milan Mania. However I suppose that it will finally come up in some "innocent" disscussions about something not related with politics. If we had a political forum we do not need to mess around with our politcal views all around and in each thread also... because we can let our "political steam" to blow off in speacial area where we wont do any harm for other users. It would be a right place to communicate on such issues and it would not be anything inappropriate.

05-09-2005, 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kui

Am I to believe it that I'm causing problems here??? If that's the case then ask me to leave MilanMania. But you cant be serious by putting a double standard on discussions here. What I beleved and felt that made this forum great is that it is an open forum of Milan Fans who can talk about a wide range of things including football. People talk about books, music, jokes, stories, tv shows, movies, porn stars, their homes, and most importantly their ideas including political thoughts. I think people need to seriously think about this cause talking just about football is boring. If you guys think otherwise, then lets just be puritan about the whole thing and close all things not pertaining to football. Of course this is what some of you folks are telling me... no???
Thanks for bringing these things to the table. I unfortunately disagree though on some of it.

I have to say here Kui that I have often found your postings enlightening, informative, and yes even confrontational, with your opinions. But, IMO they are always well thought out and I feel carefully executed. Some people are going to be offended, on some level no matter who you try to appease. I hope you continue to post on all issues on MM not just soccer. You can't please everyone.....
Of course that is my opinion and we know how much they want to hear my opinion ....

Now on the topic of which this thread was intended. I was in Windsor this past weekend and there are huge efforts (Katrinathon) to collect canned goods, so if you can't afford to give financially, please donate a few canned items.

Nadir · 05-09-2005, 13:22

why don't you two (kui and rae) call each other up and discuss politics all you want?

Susi · 05-09-2005, 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kui

Well I'm glad you've come open and discussed this. But keep in mind that what I am trying to say is that we do have other threads open in this forum that are equally offensive as anything political. The football talk alone can get nasty with people saying stuff like "Vieri is sh!t and should die!". But I'm not advocating closing any of it down. There is a lot of stuff I dont think should be in this forum, but you dont see me crying and b!thcin to the administrator or any moderators to get them closed do you???. I simply dont even go in them. Anyone can change the channel and simply abstain from reading any of it. Tell me this isnt so??? Explain this to me better because the excuses coming to me are so inconsistent. If we conclude to close some discussions I like to get engaged in on the account of the displeasure of some members here, whats to stop me from being sour woos as well and call for things to close that I dont like??? Talk about tolerance! Lets just be tolerant to things we only agree on. Is that it??? Am I to believe it that I'm causing problems here??? If that's the case then ask me to leave MilanMania. But you cant be serious by putting a double standard on discussions here. What I beleved and felt that made this forum great is that it is an open forum of Milan Fans who can talk about a wide range of things including football. People talk about books, music, jokes, stories, tv shows, movies, porn stars, their homes, and most importantly their ideas including political thoughts. I think people need to seriously think about this cause talking just about football is boring. If you guys think otherwise, then lets just be puritan about the whole thing and close all things not pertaining to football. Of course this is what some of you folks are telling me... no???
Thanks for bringing these things to the table. I unfortunately disagree though on some of it.

Well Kui, I dont think I said, you are causing problems here, secondly I also dont think to have said, that me or other ask or wish, that you leave the forum.

You said, I put a double standard in here? Why?

After I read through this thread and the other thread, I decided to state my opinion about what is discussed here. I think I said clear, that of course I COULD have join the discussion about politics, but I refused. Its my personaly decision not to join political talks at all, because I dont like them, so what? I also think political talks are not a necessary for a football forum and believe, that political discussion CAN turn into a negative discussion sooner or later, like it was viewable at the closed thread in the end.

You asked the Admins, why your thread got shut down, and Reza told you why, because the closed threads seems to got many complains from users here, so the Admins decided to shut it down. He also said, that Politics was never allowed on MM at all, because this is a 100% football forum and the the idea of even allowing politics one bit was a sort of experiment to open up the forums in the slow times or the offseason for example."

Correct me, if I am wrong, if I got it right, this must not be the first experiment to allow politics here and it was not good for this forum in the past. Although the Admins here were lenient to start to allow political talks again at Flamers paradise, to see if it now works or not was another experiment, so I think this must got failed again, otherwise the admins would not had shut down that particular thread. Period.

If the Admins will decide, that there is the time or a need for a political subforum here in the future, than I can live with it, although I dont think I would join. So what?

As you have said by yourself we can talk here about lots of stuff next to football. For that we have the Members Lounge. Some of them like that kind of threads in there, others not....for me they are harmless, maybe others here think different about it, but anyway I also suppose, IF one of that thread there HAD caused as much complains or trouble in the past for others, the Admins would had also shut them down before. And even if this would happen to a thread sooner or later, I also could live with that, its ok for me.

The Main point is, that political talks were not allowed here, Admins made again the experience to tolerate them (at flamers paradise) and this experience just seems to be failed again imo. Maybe in the future it will be allowed, then ok.

So I am wondering, it seems just because I disagree with you about the necessary to have political talks here or not, it does means automatically, I had pressed the "adminbutton"? I did not btw and I dont see in my post, where you figure that out from or I may had react like "you don't see me crying and bitching to the admins and mods to close threads, dont you"?

Anyway I think I have made my point of view clear enough, so I end it here

Nadir · 05-09-2005, 16:59

see how people get heated up TALKING about TALKING about politics? Imagine if we actually TALK about politics lol.

Kui · 06-09-2005, 04:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susi

Well Kui, I dont think I said, you are causing problems here, secondly I also dont think to have said, that me or other ask or wish, that you leave the forum.

You said, I put a double standard in here? Why?

No. I do not mean you in particular. I'm trying to say is if I'm not able to discuss whatever I want here whether it be football or politics etc etc etc, while others can talk about things equally offensive but only POLITICS are not ok to talk about here it is a double standard. Anyone who doesnt want a politcal discussion thread of any kind here and are willing to give other offensive topics here a pass whether there is a complaint or not to the administrator or moderators is a DOUBLE STANDARD. So if you think I meant it towards you in particular... well thats up to you to decide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susi

After I read through this thread and the other thread, I decided to state my opinion about what is discussed here. I think I said clear, that of course I COULD have join the discussion about politics, but I refused. Its my personaly decision not to join political talks at all, because I dont like them, so what? I also think political talks are not a necessary for a football forum and believe, that political discussion CAN turn into a negative discussion sooner or later, like it was viewable at the closed thread in the end.

Again thank you for putting in your opinion to this matter. I'm glad that you made choices to wheter or not decide to join in any discussion. Again I reiterate that not only political discussion get heated up and turn in to negative discussion. Are you asking/telling me to longer talk about poltical topics???? This is what I want to know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susi

You asked the Admins, why your thread got shut down, and Reza told you why, because the closed threads seems to got many complains from users here, so the Admins decided to shut it down. He also said, that Politics was never allowed on MM at all, because this is a 100% football forum and the the idea of even allowing politics one bit was a sort of experiment to open up the forums in the slow times or the offseason for example."

Correct me, if I am wrong, if I got it right, this must not be the first experiment to allow politics here and it was not good for this forum in the past. Although the Admins here were lenient to start to allow political talks again at Flamers paradise, to see if it now works or not was another experiment, so I think this must got failed again, otherwise the admins would not had shut down that particular thread. Period.

If the Admins will decide, that there is the time or a need for a political subforum here in the future, than I can live with it, although I dont think I would join. So what?

I feel like I'm repeating myself again and again and again. I'm already content to knowing why my thread got closed down. But that was because it did get heated up. FINE! OK! I didnt cause the stir up there. Keep that in mind.

There are so many topics here that I dont care if people want to join in my discussion or not. I dont join in many discussions here that dont interest me or those that I dont like. I also dont go complaining to an admin to go closing peoples threads down or no longer talk about any particular subject on the account of it being offensive to me. If we're gonna play this game than ok I should go and start b!tchin and moaning to the admins of threads I dont like. I should go and be a sour a$$ myself. Do you not understand what I'm explaining here???

I'm not asking for a whole forum to talk about politics. I'm saying if I want to talk about whatever I want to, I should be able to do it without people caring what the heck I talk about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susi

As you have said by yourself we can talk here about lots of stuff next to football. For that we have the Members Lounge. Some of them like that kind of threads in there, others not....for me they are harmless, maybe others here think different about it, but anyway I also suppose, IF one of that thread there HAD caused as much complains or trouble in the past for others, the Admins would had also shut them down before. And even if this would happen to a thread sooner or later, I also could live with that, its ok for me.

The Main point is, that political talks were not allowed here, Admins made again the experience to tolerate them (at flamers paradise) and this experience just seems to be failed again imo. Maybe in the future it will be allowed, then ok.

Based on complaints of others here. I'm not going to repeat myself again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susi

So I am wondering, it seems just because I disagree with you about the necessary to have political talks here or not, it does means automatically, I had pressed the "adminbutton"? I did not btw and I dont see in my post, where you figure that out from or I may had react like "you don't see me crying and bitching to the admins and mods to close threads, dont you"?

I never said it was you who complained. Did I??? Noooo. I based that people complained using logic to why my thread got closed. Not from you complaining but from your post saying people were complaining.
You can disagree with me talking about politics or whatever. I can handle that. What I dont accept is people telling me that I cant do it anymore in this forum. This is why I'm asking now. Am I no longer able to have open discussion of politics here??? I've kept it in the Flamers Paradise until it jumped to this one. I'm not asking for a whole new forum. I'm asking for it to be acceptable like those that could be deemed offensive even though it hasnt recieved complaints. If a topic get heated up I'm all for it closng it down. That depends really on a member wanting too post on a particular thread or not. If we start closing threads because we dont agree with the open expression of ideas then I do have a problem with it. I dont see why people just dont make the choice to ignore it. If we continue to do it on the basis of complaints behind the scenes in such cowardly fashion, than I myself have no choice to ask the administrators to close down threads I deem not worthy of being in this forum. So let's make the decision so I can start asking Rezag to close down things myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susi

Anyway I think I have made my point of view clear enough, so I end it here

You've made your point. All I need to know is what decision the fellow members and admins are going to make before I go do what I have to. Hot potato is now passed on.

Kui · 06-09-2005, 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Staci

I have to say here Kui that I have often found your postings enlightening, informative, and yes even confrontational, with your opinions. But, IMO they are always well thought out and I feel carefully executed. Some people are going to be offended, on some level no matter who you try to appease. I hope you continue to post on all issues on MM not just soccer. You can't please everyone.....
Of course that is my opinion and we know how much they want to hear my opinion ....

Now on the topic of which this thread was intended. I was in Windsor this past weekend and there are huge efforts (Katrinathon) to collect canned goods, so if you can't afford to give financially, please donate a few canned items.

Thank You Staci. I'm not trying to be pleasing. If I'm offensive, I'm always willing to be quick with apologies. I'm glad you put forth your opinion as well.

Thank You and again thanks for the support from the people of Windsor, Canada.

I picked my friend Mr De Beaumont up from the airport yesterday afternoon. His flight was actually four hours late but that was ok. Boy he looked worned out! I did very well holding back the tears and I think he was too tired to openly show his emotions as well. He was too worn out to go to dinner with me and my folks last night so I'll see how he feels today. But we got his prescription medicine picked up at the pharmacy and he's resting well at my parents place. I think I'll give my old granny ma a call and see if she would like to come to dinner with us tonight.

That way she and Mr. Don can socialize and mayber even hook up.

They're both old so I dont think they can still do it. I dont even want to think about it

06-09-2005, 11:43

If in fact there is a demand for such a forum then one should be created. Let those who have a passion for the topic enjoy the knowledge and controversy that it is bound to create. Two things they say are never to be discussed are religion and politics. However that is one opinion I find to be ridiculous, as these are part of our daily lives like it or not. Unless you want to live in a bubble to keep yourself from controversy you are bound to come across it at some point. It is human nature to be passionate about the things that you believe in, there in lies the confrontation, as we all do not believe in the same things. The answer to this debate is simple, start a forum on Politics, those who are interested will surely expect the debates and even arguments. Those who don't care to participate will know not to go into that thread. It's simply a choice.

Nadir · 06-09-2005, 11:54

http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/

join that forum and keep politics out of here

rae · 07-09-2005, 06:40

Yeah, but it is differnt forum. And I am only a MM'er... always and forever

So I shall fight for our rights here in MM. Please, guys, be more tolerant and not so conservative...

Nadir · 07-09-2005, 08:26

Again, my point was that if you want to discuss politics, do it in a political forum. want to discuss soccer and milan? do it here. the moment this place has a political sub forum, u will see tensions rise and spill over into the soccer topics and people will start leaving in droves.

if we have a political sub-forum, let's start one for religious discussion as well.

As far as closing threads go, perhaps leaving heated up threads open is a good idea so that all the heat is confined to that one thread instead of it spilling over

rae · 08-09-2005, 09:58

Quote: