Time for Galliani to go or change his strategy

Originally Posted by prifess

real madrid buys all youth players

gago, higuan, marcelo

all promising youth players

kerlon will probebly go to inter what leaves us nothing :s

Prifess....did u see the horrible display by Madrid vs Deportive with Marcelo, and Gago in the team? Note, I am not saying that these players arent good, but the point I am making is that the aqusition of young talent is no guarantee of success.

Your analysis of the recent Liverpool Arsenal games is a bit garbled Warren. If Arsenal's team on Tuesday night had beaten a full strength side then sure, wave the flags and sing the praises. But they didn't. They beat a collection of squad players and youngsters plus Gerrard and a crock Bellamy, hardly the same is it.

Dudek is the equivalent of having Kalac in goal. I think a few people need to get some perspective here.

Oh, and to just further underscore my point:

Kindly read this article from theGuardian:

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_...987613,00.html

Where, after spending 77M pounds...wait, let me just quote from the article, its easier :

Rafael Benítez has rejected criticism of his managerial methods at Liverpool and indicated that the supporters' complaints should be redirected towards the club's board of directors. With a takeover imminent, Benítez felt emboldened enough to question the club's spending policies under the current regime and blame the 6-3 Carling Cup thrashing by Arsenal on a failure to release more transfer funds....

Benítez's complaints also fail to take into account that the £77.8m paid out by Liverpool in transfer fees during his 2½ seasons as manager is higher than at any other Premiership club in the same period, apart from Chelsea and Manchester United.

Benítez has brought in 25 players

in his time at the club...25!!!!!!

So to me, its obvious that spending big doesnt guarantee success....nor does spending too little, but I think we are over-reacting a bit here...just because we dont spend 50M every transfer window, doesnt mean we are doing something wrong.

But they seem to forget a big part of these 77 M were spent in his first season as Pool's manager, and it did bring success to Liverpool back then.
You know, one hot night in Istanbul...................

In his CL winning season he signed : Cisse 14 M, Xabi Alonso 10 M, Morientes 6.5 M, Luis Garcia 6 M, Josemi 2 M , Pellegrino, Jones and Nunez free.
Half of the money he spent were in his first season, and more than 1/3 of the players he brought were in his first season.
He didn't win anything in his second, while the third is on it's way.
I'd say money did bring success to Benitez so far !

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

Your analysis of the recent Liverpool Arsenal games is a bit garbled Warren. If Arsenal's team on Tuesday night had beaten a full strength side then sure, wave the flags and sing the praises. But they didn't.

They beat a collection of squad players and youngsters plus Gerrard and a crock Bellamy, hardly the same is it.

Dudek is the equivalent of having Kalac in goal. I think a few people need to get some perspective here.

I beg to differ...the Liverpool team, and subs:

Jerzy Dudek, (1st team? Or am I mistaken?)

Fabio Aurelio, (1st team? Or am I mistaken?)

Danny Guthrie, (dont know)

Sami Hyypia, (1st team? Or am I mistaken?)

Gabriel Paletta, (dont think so, ie 1st team)

Steven Gerrard, (1st team? Or am I mistaken?)
Mark Gonzalez (1st team? Or am I mistaken?)

(Javier Sanz Luis Garcia (Jamie Carragher))(1st team? Or am I mistaken?)

Stephen Warnock (not first team I think) (Xabi Alonso (1st team? Or am I mistaken?))

Craig Bellamy, (1st team? Or am I mistaken?)

Robbie Fowler, Lee Peltier (both benchers, this I am sure of)

So, that makes what, 9 or 10 players from the Liverpool first team, by my calculation...admittedly Liverfool isnt my fav team so I may be in error here... Several aquired by Benitez...who lost to a team with only 2 regular starters for Arsenal...now what is garbled again? The players I have listed above as 1st team players, arent a "collection of squad players" by any means.

Dudek (the hero of Istanbul) is equivalent to Kalac? Puhlease bro...Kalac has no equivalent...he is simply the worst first team goalie in the world...let alone Europe.

The only point I am trying to make Jim_UK, is that spending huge sums on players isnt always the answer.

Originally Posted by Tony29.

I'd say money did bring success to Benitez so far !

One UCL trophy? Surely u must be being sarcastic....the holy grail for Liverfool fans, is the EPL title...and they have barely managed a top 4 place, much less mount a challenge for the title, in all of his tenure, and with all his expenditure.

Admittedly, the UCL is nothing to scoff at, but that win eliminated all the "luck" that Liverfool will have for the next 50 years...and what they(Benitez, and all concerned with Liverfool) really want, is the EPL title.

They are not like Milan, and Milan fans, who by and large, prefer the UCL to the Serie A title....if only marginally in some cases.

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

One UCL trophy? Surely u must be being sarcastic

I was serious actually. 1 UCL in 2 seasons is a good enough record, even if you prefer the EPL more.

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

the holy grail for Liverfool fans, is the EPL title...and they have barely managed a top 4 place, much less mount a challenge for the title, in all of his tenure, and with all his expenditure

Sure, when you spend 77 M in 2 1/2 years you have every right to expect winning the EPL, but if you compare it with the spendings of Chelsea and Man UTD You'll see it's enough for top 4 only.

Mourinho came at Chelsea, at the same time Rafa came to Liverpool.
Mourinho spent : 90.2 M in season 2004/05 + 53.4 in season 2005/06 + 64.5 M in season 2006/07 = 208.1 M in 2 1/2 seasons
And their main players are still Lampard and Terry, who together with Joe Cole, came to Chelsea before Mourinho came and spent +200 M.

Ferguson :
season 2004/05 : 54.8 M (Rooney, Smith, Saha, Heinze....)
season 2005/06 : 22.5 M (Vidic, Evra, Park, Van der Sar...)
season 2006/07 : 18.6 M ( Carrick)
Total : 95.9 M .....and they won absolutely nothing, not to mention how heavily they depend on players bought before splashing 95.9 M ( players like Ronaldo, Scholes) !!!!


Get my point ?

The following is a resume of an interview given by Mr Adriano Galliani to "Corriere de la Sera" although i read it in "Diario As".

http://www.as.com/articulo/futbol/Ma...daiftb_38/Tes/

AC Milan had an study made by SSC, Spectrum Strategy Consultants, one of the most important consultants in the area of mass comunications and sports in which they state that Spaniards clubs are growing almost as double as AC milan (at least Real and Barca) yearly, since 2003. If the following tendency continues, by the year 2011 AC Milan could get "only" 245 millions while Barcelona 380 millions and Madrid 440. The causes seem to be the taxes, the lack of stadiums owned by the clubs-each team in first division in Spain owns their stadiums while Roma,Lazio, Inter and Milan have to share. Also the laws concerning the non comunitarian players are against italian clubs; if, for example, a south american plays for a team during 2 years in Spain he could get his citizenship inmediatly while in Italy would take 10 years for the same player (i.e Serginho).

Instead of buying players like Ronaldinho or Messi, Milan has to worry about the Siren's call of Madrid to Kaka every single week...

Originally Posted by Tony29.

In his CL winning season he signed : Cisse 14 M ... He didn't win anything in his second

He didn't sign Cisse, which is £14m you can wipe off of that total for a start. That deal was already concluded before Houllier left and Benitez took over, so that wasn't his choice of player and it's no coincedence that he's since shipped him out on loan and practically told him he has not future at the club. They won the F.A. Cup last season in arguably the best final in the last few decades. Obviously not one of the big two (league or CL), but it's a major domestic trophy.

Warren, you are mistaken for most of your assumptions about the Liverpool line-up the other night.

Jerzy Dudek, (1st team? Or am I mistaken) 2nd choice keeper behind Reina, hardly played at all this season and makes as many howlers now as Kalac.

Fabio Aurelio, (1st team? Or am I mistaken) Left sided squad player used in central midfield the other night.

Danny Guthrie, (dont know) - Youth team player

Sami Hyypia, (1st team? Or am I mistaken) - 3rd choice cb behind Carragher and Agger.

Gabriel Paletta, (dont think so, ie 1st team) - 4th choice cb and young talent bought in last summer, plays mainly for the reserves and the odd cup game.

Steven Gerrard, (1st team Or am I mistaken?)

Mark Gonzalez (1st team? Or am I mistaken?) A bit of both really has had spells in the side on the left, usually rotating with any number of players. Considering he wasn't on for long before being stretchered off, i don't think it makes much difference.

Luis Garcia - more first team player - but again he lasted only so long before having his season ended by rupturing some knee ligaments.

Jamie Carragher - first team obviously, wouldn't have come on in other circumstances

Stephen Warnock - squad player at best

Xabi Alonso - first team obviously, but like Carragher only came on because of what was happening, wouldn't have been used otherwise.

Craig Bellamy - first team, though like i've said before he's been injured so he was only just returning and therefore not match fit or fully sharp.

Robbie Fowler - nothing more than a squad player now, hardly gets on the bench

Lee Peltier - youth player


So i don't see this as a hugely strong side considering they were without their first choice defence (Reina, Riise, Carragher, Agger, Finnan) ... aswell as Pennant, Sissoko, Crouch, Kuyt ... plus Garcia and Alonso weren't supposed to play either. You can make the same arguments that Arsenal's squad were stronger than they appeared also. Almunia, Toure, Fabregas, Baptista aren't exactly novices while Djourou i think was a world cup starter in defence for Switzerland, Hoyte & Walcott are regular subs in the Premiership and Aliadiere has had plenty of first team experience whilst being loaned out all the time.

It's whatever spin you want to put on things, Arsenal just won on the day. I'd hardly call that a reason for all this fuss being made about Benitez's spending. Arsenal and many other clubs have had freak one off disaster games now and again, why not call the police out and inspect their transfer records aswell, none of them would come out perfectly intact either.

Originally Posted by lolofernandez

The following is a resume of an interview given by Mr Adriano Galliani to "Corriere de la Sera" although i read it in "Diario As".

http://www.as.com/articulo/futbol/Ma...daiftb_38/Tes/

AC Milan had an study made by SSC, Spectrum Strategy Consultants, one of the most important consultants in the area of mass comunications and sports in which they state that Spaniards clubs are growing almost as double as AC milan (at least Real and Barca) yearly, since 2003. If the following tendency continues, by the year 2011 AC Milan could get "only" 245 millions while Barcelona 380 millions and Madrid 440. The causes seem to be the taxes, the lack of stadiums owned by the clubs-each team in first division in Spain owns their stadiums while Roma,Lazio, Inter and Milan have to share. Also the laws concerning the non comunitarian players are against italian clubs; if, for example, a south american plays for a team during 2 years in Spain he could get his citizenship inmediatly while in Italy would take 10 years for the same player (i.e Serginho).

Instead of buying players like Ronaldinho or Messi, Milan has to worry about the Siren's call of Madrid to Kaka every single week...

Well... then?

Well, the situation is scary if you think about ten years ago (goosh, I'm getting old!) Milan had Van Basten on the pitch and Papin waiting on the bench, now we have Oliveira as an starter...

I grown up watching the Serie A being the most poweful league in the world, a place which La liga has taken away. And while i can have wet dreams as many of you could have- Dinho, Messi, Lampard wearing the rossoneri jersey- i have to face reality: Grimmis instead of Gagos. And that is beyond sad, almost Yates' level sadness.

The whole dilemma is beyond Milan'scope; it rely heavily on the Goverment' shoulder ( taxes, citizen chip law, etc.) I cant imagine the Serie A being some kind of the French League in the following years.

Ok Jim and Tony, points taken, but in the context of the discussion, which, if I might remind you, is about Galliani, and his transfer policy, or lack thereof, my point I believe, remains valid, though the example I chose may not have been the best.

Money spent, doesnt guarantee any silverware.

Thats what I wanted to say.

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

He didn't sign Cisse, which is £14m you can wipe off of that total for a start.

Nope Jim, you're wrong ( actually you're right, but only half right)

I was checking this info before i wrote it.
The deal with Cisse was signed during Hullier time, but he came to Liverpool and the money to Auxerre were given during Benitez time, so most probably these 14 M are calculated into the 77 M.
I checked many sites for this info. Believe me, or check it out yourself !

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

Money spent, doesnt guarantee any silverware.

Thats what I wanted to say.

Yes, your point is valid and understood.
If you have taken ManU or Real M from last 3 years, you'd have had a hell of a point

Originally Posted by warro

Money spent, doesnt guarantee any silverware.

i agree whole-heartdly

Tony, you're right that the money was given to Auxerre during the start of Benitez's tenure but i'm pretty sure that that £14 million was already put aside before he was at the club. So the way i see it is that it was Houllier's money spent as he tied the deal and the money was ready for the transfer while Houllier was at the club. Benitez never had a hand in it so i don't see how it could be classed as money he spent.

Besides, we're way off topic, lets switch back before we get too many complaints