Fiorentina vs AC Milan

We can win this, we can win this!

I wish it was true but it's not, I wish it was true but it's not!

of course we could win against fiorentina but i doubt it will happen this time

nevertheless forza milan

Be positive people, Milan will win I hope …

Guys, it is not about being positive...we ve been positive for all this time, believing that next match is going to be a break through...believing that we are going to win..and we lost, or draw, lost again...We scored only 14 goals in 15 games, while Inter scored 32...Reggina, which is almost the last team in the table scored 17 goals. And Fiorentina scored 22 goals!!!
I can only hope that we ll win this match, but I am actually scared to watch it. I dont think that something in our performance will change until January...and if then we manage to buy players we need, then we have chances to start doing better. And maybe if we can draw this game - it would be a great achievement.

Originally Posted by Egoistka

I can only hope that we ll win this match, but I am actually scared to watch it. I dont think that something in our performance will change until January...and if then we manage to buy players we need, then we have chances to start doing better. And maybe if we can draw this game - it would be a great achievement.

I agree, Milan is definitely in need of a break now; hopefully we'll pull through and get as many points as it's possible ... otherwise I"m not expecting greta performance from Milan. Still, Janurary will be the most important month of the season, not december.

I do not agree with your mentlaity here though: "We can draw this game - it would be a great achievement". I honestly do not believe that one should look at things like Milan short-term. Yes, Milan is going through a very difficult period, but if I were a coach playing against MIlan, I wouldn't think that Milan is not dangerous. For one thing, "regression to the mean", i.e., you don't know when Milan will strike. I'm just very disappointed that some of us here are very pessismistic to the point that one endorses Inter mentality. That's really

Originally Posted by Jeff

I agree, Milan is definitely in need of a break now; hopefully we'll pull through and get as many points as it's possible ... otherwise I"m not expecting greta performance from Milan. Still, Janurary will be the most important month of the season, not december.

I do not agree with your mentlaity here though: "We can draw this game - it would be a great achievement". I honestly do not believe that one should look at things like Milan short-term. Yes, Milan is going through a very difficult period, but if I were a coach playing against MIlan, I wouldn't think that Milan is not dangerous. For one thing, "regression to the mean", i.e., you don't know when Milan will strike. I'm just very disappointed that some of us here are very pessismistic to the point that one endorses Inter mentality. That's really

Well, Jeff...until January we are not going to be very dangerous..and it s not being pessimistic - it is being realistic. Although, I do believe that Fiorentina will prepare for this match very carefully. I dont think they d underestimate us...which is why, if we play bad - they ll win. We are in trouble now, we have many injured players - and this is a big disadvantage. I also noticed in the last games, that our defence panics a lot when the ball is near our goal..this panic brings a mess, and a mess makes us concede goals. That is really bad as well.
You say that some of us are pessimistic and that it is bad...but where do you think the optimism should come from? Just blind optimism is not good, as it hurts when things happen differently from what you have expected. When I see in what condition the whole team is at the moment, I cannot be optimistic and say that we ll easily win this game 0:3, as I know that we won't (only if miracle happens we will). Also dont forget that we are playing away.That is why I d be pleased if we draw, and I d be very very happy if we win. However I d be not that upset if we lose, because I can see that it is very possible. Fiorentina is a very strong team...

I agree 100% with the last 3 posts above by Jeff & Oskana. Before every match I always say we're going to win, but being realistic our current form does not show we're going to achieve much agaisnt Fiorentina away. Each game we say that things are going to change and after we're back to stage 1. Honestly and realisticly I can't see things changing before the winter break & I don't believe in the winter transfer market either.
1: we're not going to sign any player that makes the difference
2: even if we sign Terry, Ronaldinho etc etc when it is a no season it's simply a no season.

Anyway Forza Milan today more than ever before.

Things will change for Milan when we hire new coach and buy 3-5 good players. NOT SOONER... Barca has the same situation few years ago, and they hired Rijkaard and few player in january. Then they managed to catch CL position and now here they are. Changes are needed, with this speed and power that we play with, we cant win in Florence. We can hope and be positive, but realistically - no we cant win.

I still hope dough..... well at laest 0-1

Originally Posted by Egoistka

Well, Jeff...until January we are not going to be very dangerous..and it s not being pessimistic - it is being realistic.
You say that some of us are pessimistic and that it is bad...but where do you think the optimism should come from? Just blind optimism is not good, as it hurts when things happen differently from what you have expected. When I see in what condition the whole team is at the moment, I cannot be optimistic and say that we ll easily win this game 0:3, as I know that we won't (only if miracle happens we will). Also dont forget that we are playing away.That is why I d be pleased if we draw, and I d be very very happy if we win.

This is what I wrote, and I quote it here again:
"I'm just very disappointed that some of us here are very pessismistic to the point that one endorses Inter mentality."

One of my mentors, when he was young, used to serve the high school tennis team, and he almost always lost (he didn't hide his disappointment obivously) because their team was simply not competitive enough. But, does it mean that he'll be happy if he drew, or if he won? He'll certainly be happy, but he also knows that it's realistic that he'll lose. BUT, and here is an important BUT, does it mean that he'll have to endorse a "I'm ok with it even if I lose attitude"? If he did, then I felt really bad for his coach who simply failed to motivate him.

This is the difference between being very pessimistic vs. being realistic. When you are pessimistic, you are 'happy' with a draw, but ok with a lost. I seriously doubt this is what the players are thinking. Being realistic, though, means that the players should know that this is a difficult moment, but they have to face the problems together and overcome it. That's REALISTIC. Who doesn't know that Milan is not in trouble? Do you REALLY think that the management doesn't know that MIlan is in big trouble? You think they are THAT dumb? You really believe that? You think they are retarded people who could achieve in the past with glory but now couldn't do anything due to some exogenous reasons?

That's what I"m asking people here. Be realistic: Stop whimming about Milan not buying any player in Janurary, didn't buy anyone in summer, sack the coach and all this UNREALISTIC albeit pessismistic thinking. BE REALISTIC. It's important to keep a winning mentality even if you know that you are the underdog. I'm sure Liverpool has taught us a good lesson? When we were up 3-0 and Sheva started to celebrate, that'se OPTIMISTIC. Do you see anyone of us doing that?

We can't even win 3-0 when we are of top form. What makes you think that people will be so optimsitic now?

This is my position: There is nothing wrong to be realistic, but some of the people's pessimism has gone so far that it meant a losing, (a.k.a. Internazionale) mentality, and that's how exactly you lose (known as self-fulfilling prophecy). You want an example? Look at Inter. They didn't even have the winning mentality, and that's why they didn't win ANYTHING at all in the past.

I'm sorry, but I find your supposition about 'blind optimism' laughable. First off, there is no optimism here. How can I be blind then? Not being pessimistic doesn't entail that one must be optimistic. I'm worried, but I'm not pessimistic like some of you who thought that a draw would be a good result.

Talking about realism and optimism: Bashing the team (some of the MM members here) here, saying that the management should sack the coach, buy this or that player etc, is indeed unrealistic. In fact, these are the optimistic people who think that this will solve the problem.

Originally Posted by mrki

realistically - no we cant win.

See that? There is never a time you should say I can never win. Saying that means that you have already lost half of the battle. Be realistic: it's very difficult, but it's not impossible. When you say it will be impossible, it IS already impossible.

well... you can't blame they for not bein' optimistic... because lately things are not exactly shinin' bright... anyway... i agree with you... but i can understand those that are feelin' down...

Originally Posted by Jeff

This is what I wrote, and I quote it here again:
"I'm just very disappointed that some of us here are very pessismistic to the point that one endorses Inter mentality."

One of my mentors, when he was young, used to serve the high school tennis team, and he almost always lost (he didn't hide his disappointment obivously) because their team was simply not competitive enough. But, does it mean that he'll be happy if he drew, or if he won? He'll certainly be happy, but he also knows that it's realistic that he'll lose. BUT, and here is an important BUT, does it mean that he'll have to endorse a "I'm ok with it even if I lose attitude"? If he did, then I felt really bad for his coach who simply failed to motivate him.

This is the difference between being very pessimistic vs. being realistic. When you are pessimistic, you are 'happy' with a draw, but ok with a lost. I seriously doubt this is what the players are thinking. Being realistic, though, means that the players should know that this is a difficult moment, but they have to face the problems together and overcome it. That's REALISTIC. Who doesn't know that Milan is not in trouble? Do you REALLY think that the management doesn't know that MIlan is in big trouble? You think they are THAT dumb? You really believe that? You think they are retarded people who could achieve in the past with glory but now couldn't do anything due to some exogenous reasons?

That's what I"m asking people here. Be realistic: Stop whimming about Milan not buying any player in Janurary, didn't buy anyone in summer, sack the coach and all this UNREALISTIC albeit pessismistic thinking. BE REALISTIC. It's important to keep a winning mentality even if you know that you are the underdog. I'm sure Liverpool has taught us a good lesson? When we were up 3-0 and Sheva started to celebrate, that'se OPTIMISTIC. Do you see anyone of us doing that?

We can't even win 3-0 when we are of top form. What makes you think that people will be so optimsitic now?

This is my position: There is nothing wrong to be realistic, but some of the people's pessimism has gone so far that it meant a losing, (a.k.a. Internazionale) mentality, and that's how exactly you lose (known as self-fulfilling prophecy). You want an example? Look at Inter. They didn't even have the winning mentality, and that's why they didn't win ANYTHING at all in the past.

I'm sorry, but I find your supposition about 'blind optimism' laughable. First off, there is no optimism here. How can I be blind then? Not being pessimistic doesn't entail that one must be optimistic. I'm worried, but I'm not pessimistic like some of you who thought that a draw would be a good result.

Talking about realism and optimism: Bashing the team (some of the MM members here) here, saying that the management should sack the coach, buy this or that player etc, is indeed unrealistic. In fact, these are the optimistic people who think that this will solve the problem.

I m sorry Jeff, but you really misinterpret the meaning of "pessimism" and "realism". Lets see if i can explain that in plain english...
Pessimism - it is when a person always thinks about the worst possible scenario (even if nothing predicts the bad outcomes).
Realism - it is when a person thinks according to the situation...if there are reasons for bad outcomes - he thinks that it is very likely for bad outcome to happen, however if nothing predicts a bad outcome - he would not expect it.
Optimism - it is when a person doesnt care about reasons, and always believes in a good outcome.
What I have said above is a common knowledge, i did not invent it.
So lets apply it to our disscussion above...
Milan is losing or drawing almost every game (even against very small teams), we have 2 of our key players injured (Dida and Nesta), our strikers are in a bad shape...On the other hand we have fiorentina, who has currently 2 best strikers of Serie A: Mutu and Toni. And we are playing away...It is realistically to think that we ll lose against Fiorentina...we might draw as well. But believing that we win is optimism in this situation.
However, we all still hope that Milan will win...hope and believe are to different things.
I did not say that I d be happy with a draw, i said I d be pleased with a draw, as it would bring us 1 point. I d be happy if they win, but I would not be very upset if they lose, not because i m a pessimist, but because i can see it coming. I still would be upset, but not as upset as i d be if I did not see it coming.
Same as me, most of the people here are being realistic...they understand that there are reasons, which might bring us this loss agaisnt fiorentina, but we all hope that we will win this game.
You, on the contrary, are optimist. You dont pay attention to what the reasons are, you just believe that we ll win, no matter what. And that is your choice...but dont blame people here for seeing the real picture.

Originally Posted by Jeff

See that? There is never a time you should say I can never win. Saying that means that you have already lost half of the battle. Be realistic: it's very difficult, but it's not impossible. When you say it will be impossible, it IS already impossible.

He did not say "never"...Although I disagree with him, as I think we can win..it is possible, but unlikely.

It will be a very tough game. Mutu and Prandelli have got the kind of awards which will make any person feel super confident. They will be relaxed as they aren't having a bad slump of form and there really isn't very high pressure on them to qualify for the Champions league spot next year. On paper, the look as the favorites to win the match however I won't be surprised if we get a draw.

Come what may, FORZA MILAN!