Torres or Huntelaar ?????

inter has 3 of the best strikers in the world with crespo, adriano and ibrahimovic!!

Originally Posted by zlatanov

stitch, when it's time to joke, we joke, right? But such comments, no matter how innocent they might be, are a little out of place here as they not only do NOT help in resolving the issue but make it even worse as it could be seen as mockery of moderating duties in applying forum rules.
don't want you think I am picking on you or anything like that because I am sure you didn't have any bad intentions ... just something to think about

Torres has more talent and versatility, but his price and question marks surrounding his ability to fit in Italian football is a huge concern.
Huntlaar is one of those young uprising strikers we should be focusing our cash on. He might not be as good as Shevchenko or Basten, but he has the potential to be a Roy Makaay. And that is much better than what we have right now.

I've seen Torres play before, but will admit that i've not seen him since the World Cup. However, his brief 45 minute spell against England last night just highlighted the basic qualities he'd bring to a side, i.e. unbelievable pace, movement and the ability to move from deep or wide positions.

I can't believe there were those who were adamant that Oliveira would be and is a better player, how far wide of the mark were they? Granted this season has been one to forget for the Spanish striker, but then there have been plenty of players who have had seasons to forget so far across Europe.

In his overall game Torres is an equal if not better player than Oliveira and he's only 22, add to that he carries the weight and expectations of the whole team (club side) on his shoulders and i think you can see given that burden he copes admirably.

What stood out for me last night was his pace, so many times he just burned past Woodgate or Ferdinand and actually had to stop because his pace would have taken him into an offside position far too quickly, the guy is a whippet! His movement aswell is also a great quality, he never stands still it seems, always moving and causing problems to defences, something we lack. Sure he might not be a heavy goalscorer, though i'm pretty certain he averages a goal every other game for Atletico and at his age and in that league that's worth alot of credit.

Having said all that, Villa was even better. Either one of these players would be a great addition to our team and i think overall would benefit us more than another target man up front, i.e. Huntelaar. This is not to say i don't think Huntelaar is a bad player, far from it, but right now given the strikers we have, Torres would be a better option for us.

Jim, let's not forget that Torres was playing for his place in the NT as Aragones had omitted him earlier ... btw, that could give you a clue what his overall performance has been like since the WC .

He had to play for his place on the NT and do so against a rather poor English NT, who after some good moments in the first half - the one Torres didn't play in - started playing like ... well, let me put in some stars ****** instead of saying the word and looked totally diorganized, carefree and unmotivated or probably just plain tired ... they weren't booed for nothing off the pitch, you know.

And it was this team that Torres played against and I personally don't remember any "final product" of his sprinting around with the ball followed by him either passing it back to someone else, who had to start the attack all over again, or just plain losing it.

True, on the surface his pace and movement seem great but if you get rid of the "excitement" factor, there isn't much substance left in all that running around and trickery, or should I say attempts at trickery.

As for Villa, the more I watch this guy the more he looks like a mini-Sheva to me as it seems to me there isn't much in football that he cannot do and more improtantly - all the meaningful movements for the Spanish NT up front came from him because he, unlike Torres, brings substance to the game and doesn't just bend hos head down and try to outrun everyone in the opposing team's defense.
Until recently, the only Spanish player I thought would make it in Italy was Xabi Alonso but now I guess I could add David Villa to that very short list, as well.

How England played as a team is a little irrelevant Torres' performance. He was up against an inform Woodgate and Ferdinand and beat them easily enough. So yes, England were awful but that doesn't really effect the individual battles he had with those two defenders as both of them had reasonably decent games. It was as an attacking force that England failed miserably.

Also you mention playing/fighting for his place was a reason for his energy and enthusiasm. That would surely come into play at Milan? At Atletico, as i've said before, he's their icon and almost guaranteed a position so fighting for his place is something he might not have done too much of in the past. Here it would be different, here there would be a greater probability of him losing his place if he didn't perform, thus increasing his motivation to play well and thus increasing the kind of performances we all want to see.

You're right, there wasn't too much final product from him, but that was also due to Spain's relaxed attitude. Torres' made runs with the ball, passed out wide for a return cross but then was not found as the ball went backwards. That's not Torres' fault, plus he had the sense to carry on with his run or make intelligent movement in and around the box.

Villa was great and is the guy most people would want right now, but he is older than Torres by a few years and sometimes that experience is what you need to turn head down running into substance. Torres could easily learn the finer points of movement at Milan no problem, i don't see why people are so against him, his positives far out weigh his negatives.

Lets face it, he couldn't be any worse than Oliveira! Torres or Villa, either one would be a great addition, but you'd have to join the queue for Villa i think he'll end up at Liverpool soon enough

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

Torres could easily learn the finer points of movement at Milan no problem, i don't see why people are so against him, his positives far out weigh his negatives.

what really makes me reluctant is how some Spainards whose opinion I respect have all said that he is not all that.

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

How England played as a team is a little irrelevant Torres' performance. He was up against an inform Woodgate and Ferdinand and beat them easily enough. So yes, England were awful but that doesn't really effect the individual battles he had with those two defenders as both of them had reasonably decent games. It was as an attacking force that England failed miserably.

Oh, come on Jim, don't say you believe the above is true ... attack and midfield are the very first lines of defense and that was non-existent yesterday for the English NT, in the second half that is. You can have the best defenders around but if your midfield lets them exposed and do all the work, it's only a question of time before they get tired and start conceding even in individual battles.
Plus, Torres came in the scond half when England's defenders and midfielders were already tired, let's leave most of them lacking motivation aside , while he was fresh like a green apple and had his place in NT to play for.

Also you mention playing/fighting for his place was a reason for his energy and enthusiasm. That would surely come into play at Milan? At Atletico, as i've said before, he's their icon and almost guaranteed a position so fighting for his place is something he might not have done too much of in the past. Here it would be different, here there would be a greater probability of him losing his place if he didn't perform, thus increasing his motivation to play well and thus increasing the kind of performances we all want to see.

that's as stretchy and as speculative as it could get and I doubt it's a good idea to spend 35-40 mil to try if he would indeed change his ways
by this same reasoning, he should be constantly benched and played as a sub so that he stays motivated. It's every professional player's duty to play it all for his team ... does Milan really need a player who will lose motivation once he's earned a first-team place and has become a fan-favourite?

So what if he makes it in Milan and earn's a regular place on the field and in the fans' hearts ... if he is one of those players, who "slack around" once they are at the top, the chance of losing his place on the team won't stop him from doing so because he has it in his nature to lose motivation once he's achieved his goal ... maybe for a little while the possibility of being benched would keep him alert but in the long run he would do at Milan exactly what you say he's doing at Atletico.

You're right, there wasn't too much final product from him, but that was also due to Spain's relaxed attitude. Torres' made runs with the ball, passed out wide for a return cross but then was not found as the ball went backwards. That's not Torres' fault, plus he had the sense to carry on with his run or make intelligent movement in and around the box.

the same goes for Villa - it's not like his teammates put in an extra effort for Villa to shine - yet he managed to create the goal for Spain and in general be the source of anything meaningful they created up front. All torres did was impress with his linear speed that didn't lead to anything memorable because he seems to be a bit too much in love with his own quickness.

Villa was great and is the guy most people would want right now, but he is older than Torres by a few years and sometimes that experience is what you need to turn head down running into substance. Torres could easily learn the finer points of movement at Milan no problem, i don't see why people are so against him, his positives far out weigh his negatives.

that's invloves a lot of speculation and wishful thinking, you know. not much of an excuse as there are a lot of players out there who indeed improved after 22-23 yo but also many who didn't change their ways that much, if anything at all.
Villa himself was a much more accomplished - not as hyped but his football had a lot more substance - player at 22-23 ... not to mention many others who at this age were already well defined players.
Dont get me wrong, I agree that Torres "might" improve and there are others who have done so after the age of 22-23 but the main problem I have with that is that this is a speculation that has a 35-40 mil pricetag on its head ... and if you are gonna pay this type of moneys, you'd better be getting a finished product for it and not an "if he does this and that, this and that might happen" type of player.

Lets face it, he couldn't be any worse than Oliveira! Torres or Villa, either one would be a great addition, but you'd have to join the queue for Villa i think he'll end up at Liverpool soon enough

actually he could - he would cost us at least twice as much as Oliveira did ... and I wouldn't compare them just now because Torres isn't the one playing his football in a foreign country, he isn;t the one trying to adjust to dif style of football and he definitely isn;t the one whose sister was kidnapped without any news of her.

It doesn't seem like we'll agree so that for me is the end of it.

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

It doesn't seem like we'll agree so that for me is the end of it.

ok, let's agree to disagree on Torres ... see, we did agree in the end

Huntelaar. He is a great finisher, a real "killer".
Torres is able to do unbelievable things and then miss an even more unbelievable chance.

Personally i'm sick about all these rumours on Torres. It's 4 years we talk about him and frankly i think this is a good player, but too overhyped. He would cost as much as Buffon...

Torres seems destined for Barca, or if not Barca, to stay in Spain. I personally don't rate him very high. He is a good player, young and with a lot of potential. However, he doesn't justify the price tag put on him by Atletico. He will be better of in Spain anyway.

Torres has an insane price. no way, no thank you, no sale. I vote for Huntelaar, and giving Oliveira the boot.

Remember how everyone was so crazy about Huntelaar and Sneijder earlier in the season? Now no one even knows if they're still playin or not. Im not too sure if we end up getting Huntelaar he'll be any better than Gilardino. Sneijder yea, he'll be a good squad player, but I dont know if he'll accept that?