Winter Mercato

To be honest, if Milan take away Kaka, Milan would be playing in the UEFA Cup this season and would not have advance pass the semi of CL.
As good a team as Milan is, Kaka was amazing and played like a champhion. Now I am not taking anything away from the other players b/c they all played great, except Kaka was better.

Anyhow, back to transfer.

Now Pato, Cassano and Baptista, sounds pretty good to me, just another midfielder and a defender or two and Milan is all ready to fight on all front.

Of all the transfer so far this season. I must tip my hat to ManU, Roma and Barcelona. As all three of them had filled their team with needed players. Yes, Roma sold Chivu...but I don't think it will hurt them too much as Mexes are still there.

As for Inter, well, they are Inter, what more can I say.

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

To be honest, if Milan take away Kaka, Milan would be playing in the UEFA Cup this season and would not have advance pass the semi of CL.

Any team playing with 10 players would find it difficult to win the UCL, guys don't make me laugh k.

Originally Posted by Tony29.

It doesn't matter when were the trophies won, they were won and many of them were won recently. The thing is, this would have been a hell of a reply to any other team in the world, but not to Real Madrid.

And it's not like their trophies are all in history books. They have 3 Cl's in last 10 years ( more than Milan) , 4 league trophies in last 10 years (more than Milan) and 2 Intercontinental cups in last 10 years (more than Milan)

Game, set, match


Edit : 10 years is the only period of time that you can use in this argument. No more and no less than 10 years

Don't you guys realised all this arguement about real and milan is really crazy?

Firstly, who make that statement about trophies? Ancelotti. He won 2 UCL in 5 years and bring milan to another final, semi and Q. Obviously the period he was talking about is the past 5 years when he has been the coach and what he has won while madrid hasn't done a jack for the past 5 years. So bringing in any period of time other than the past 5 years is really a poor arguement and trying to make a case out of it is really....

I said taking Baptista on loan was a better idea

There's a headline "Baptista to the Milan: l`offerta e` ready", is that basically saying Baptista is offering himself to us and is ready to join us?

There's also a huge long article on calciomercato talking about Pato & Ronaldinho. See if you can make sense of it in its garbled English.

Samba Milan, Pato in before row. Galliani ' easy Piu' arrives he that Ronaldinho'

09:54 of the 31 July

Afternoon in beach and evening to the restaurant. Milan and Real Madrid Strongly choose the mondana of Marbles for the riappacificazione and to return to make transactions together. The rossonero vice president Adrian Galliani and the general manager of the Real Pedrag Mijatovic, in fact, Sunday have passed with the entire day. Before they have been sights to you to the baths Rome Ponente and Twiga and in late evening, after to have seen the friendly Lecco-Milan, they are appeared to the Maitò restaurant, where Galliani in company of Gigi Marzullo and other friends has celebrated 63° the birthday. The encounter with Mijatovic is served in order to speak mainly about Julio Baptista but also in order ribadire the incedibilità of Kakà. Galliani yesterday is returned to Milan without the agreement, Mijatovic instead has taken an airplane for Madrid with an offer that will have to subject to Calderon. The rossonero club has asked for being able to have the player with the formula of the loan with right of redeems. On the plate two million euro and others have been puttinges endured twelve to deliver between a year. Mijatovic has listened to Galliani carefully, but he is not appeared enthusiastic of the first offer. The speech still is not closed, only sent back of some day. A lot probably the negotiation will leave again to Moscow, in occasion of the torneo in order to celebrate the 70 years of the Russian railroads where the intermediary Ernesto Bronzetti will be present, for the Real the same Mijatovic and probably also the Calderon president. Galliani has not still confirmed its presence. The visit of Mijatovic has given however good fruits. To rossonero to the escape of the restaurant where it has had supper the madridista does not have intentional to say very. Intercepted from a troupe of Sky it has smile of forehead to the name of Baptista is has let to scappare only the following consideration: "It is important to have resumed the dialogue with the Real". Also the leader of the merengues is not appeared much loquacious one even if she has hurried to emphasize how much follows: "we have not spoken about Kakà". Like if it wanted to emphasize that at least orally the speech definitively is closed. Now the Milan will have to directly resolve the issue with the champion. Galliani of the rest is the first one to wanting to withhold its more important player, here because they are in many to consigliargli the more soon meeting to father Forest for proporgli a contract lengthening with an just economic adaptation. Kakà would be happiest for clearing in order always its situation and to find again in square the Baptista friend. The centrocampista of the Real beyond some rilasciate declarations of circumstance to its arrival in Spain has already given the availability in order to move itself to the Milan. And in fact today it will become communitarian, introducing themselves from the mayor of Madrid and making the oath on the constitution. Agent would not have to be difficult neanche to find an agreement with its for engages it. Baptista in fact earns less than three million than euro and in the Real it has found least space. The Villarreal, while, seems is made from part. The president Fernando Roig in fact has declared: "We have need of a defender centers them after the departure of Gonzalo Rodriguez and the lacked purchase Ayala. We are estimating many possibilities and Baptista is not between these ". While Leonardo has arrived in Brasi them with the objective to close the negotiation for Pato. The skillful arm of Galliani does not have intentional to anticipate nothing on the strategies to rossonere, but it has admitted the interest for the young forward of the Internacional di Porto Alegre. "Pato is a great player and we are interested to players like he" in fact we have confessed. The agent of diciassettenne the Brazilian Gilmar Veloz has confirmed: "Between a pair of weeks we will decide which it will be the club more adapted to its tender age, the boy is followed from Milan, Inter and Real Madrid". The Milan has decided to accelerate the negotiation just for sbaragliare the competition. The president nerazzurro Moratti yesterday from London has faced the argument with a pizzico of irony: "Pato? The Milan has the advantage of having Leonardo that is intelligent Bravo and, an indeed exceptional leader ". Then it has added: "we do not know who has more possibility than to take it. In that it spins we are you must ask its father, Pato and its agent, however is a player in perspective not for the immediate one ". The derby it is preannounced intense and rich of dramatic turn of events. The Inter for a long time has entered in great tuning with the father of the player, the rossoneri can count on the experience of Leonardo and the fact that to Milanello would find many connazionali. Galliani yesterday answering to some tifosi that asked it news on Pato and Ronaldinho has revealed: "It is easier that the second comes first rather than". Leonardo today will meet Pato and the Internacional, but the negotiation is not simplest. The child dreams to go to the Chelsea. Preferred its nickname when chatta on Internet in fact is "Stamford Bridge". To Leo the task to make it to innamorare of... Milanello. (The Press)

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What's this "Galliani ' easy Piu' arrives he that Ronaldinho'" mean? That Pato is the easier transfer or the next Ronaldinho?? I can't believe it means we are getting Pato, Baptista AND Ronaldinho ... surely not

Originally Posted by Tony29.

We're better than them

With 2 CL's , 3 uefa cups, 1 cup winners cup, 2 intercontinental cups and 2 european supercups ( even 1 intertoto cup, but i won't count it ) we have 10 international tittles, which is still a respectful number. It's a bigger number than what Barcelona, Manchester United, Arsenal, Bayern or Inter have, not to mention Zvezda or Nothingham.
Actually, in Europe, only Real, Milan and Liverpool have more international trophies than Juve, while Ajax has the same numbers of trophies as we do.

See, we're not as bad as you think

Well, that was a period of time when juve was doing really good in UCL but since they start "messing" around with refs in Serie A, their performances in UCL also drop. If the club put more efforts in playing the ball than messing around with the refs, they can be great again.

Inter.......did they ever play well in UCL? Not when they can't bribe the refs of course.

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

What's this "Galliani ' easy Piu' arrives he that Ronaldinho'" mean? That Pato is the easier transfer or the next Ronaldinho?? I can't believe it means we are getting Pato, Baptista AND Ronaldinho ... surely not

If it happen then our attack would be packed like sardines. I do not believe that will happen. maybe 2 out of the 3 at the most.

Internacional set Pato price Tuesday 31 July, 2007 : Channel 4

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Internacional of Porto Alegre have paved the way for Alexandre Pato’s departure by placing a £15m price tag on the Milan targets head.

The 17-year-old is one of the hottest properties on the transfer market and has attracted the interest of Chelsea, Real Madrid and Inter along with the Rossoneri.

“Pato’s rescission clause is set at £9.8m and whoever wants to sign him will have to pay that amount of money, which will go entirely to the club,” announced Internacional President Vitorio Pifero.

The remaining £5m would most probably be for the player’s agent Gilmar Veloz, who is expected to meet with Milan official Leonardo shortly.

The former midfielder reportedly travelled to Brazil on Monday, where it is understood he will offer Pato a five-year contract starting out at £800,000 per season, rising to £1.3m by 2011.

“Milan are flying over to Brazil to sign me? That is fantastic,” the youngster told Spanish newspaper AS over the weekend.

“However, I won’t be meeting with their emissaries unless Internacional and my agent give me the go ahead. All I can do is wait and hope.”

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That is absolutely disgusting. £5 million for the agent?!!!!!!! That's a joke, if we pay the clause that should be it, no more. Does his agent own the player? I very much doubt it so what right does he have to demand an additional 50% of his buyout clause for himself? What a parasite!!!!!!!!

In other news, Kevin Garnett goes to the Boston Celtics

Originally Posted by hitmannq8

now that we've compared Milan with Real, let's compare Juve with other teams of its International calibre like Nottingham Forrest, Red Star Belgrade etc etc. So Tony when do you think Juve will next reach the final?

When Zebras go extinct lol

Originally Posted by Tony29.

The first goal was scored by Cristiano Ronaldo. Milan didn't score first !

i stand corrected, still you know what I mean about it all. Maybe Kakas replacement would have stopped Ronaldo in that moment, who knows?

Originally Posted by Tony29.

Siregar was talking like the matches would have gone the same way with or without Kaka.

He is clearly incorrect here, just as is anyone claiming we couldn't have won the games without him.

Originally Posted by Tony29.

He said that if he didn't play and score against Celtic the match would have gone to penalties, when, even though it could have happened, we don't know if without Kaka Milan wouldn't have lost 1:0 in regular time or won 3:0.

Exactly. But clearly Celtic didn't really stand up to us, they where very fortunate to take that into extra time.

Originally Posted by Tony29.

He said that if Kaka wasn't there and didn't score a brace after Ronaldo opened the score, the match would have finished 1:0 for ManU.
I just said there's no way we could know it and that it could have easily finished 3:0 for ManU ( just like it could have finished 1:1, 2:1, 1:2)

According to his logic, the matches would have went the same way, only that Kaka's goals wouldn't have been scored.

This last snippet sounded more like what you said when you said the game would have ended 3-0. His view seemed more that someone else would have stepped in.

Originally Posted by Tony29.

This is not true !

The games that counted, yes. although I did this check up in february, I reckon you think about the last games of the season, like the Reggina one? that was not a competitive game for us and we seriously suck at those.

Originally Posted by drucurl

And another thing.....this season's success was generally due to Kaka.....other players surely had their moments of brilliance...but it is even more arrogant for us to contemplate facing the likes of ManU Liverpool and Barcelona without him....he's our CL top scorer for god's sake

There is nothing arrogant in thinking we can face teams like ManU and Liverpool without Kaka. We still have several fresh world champions, we have one of the best scorers ever in europe and in general a team full of quality. Obviously if we take him away we won't be as strong, as would any team if you took away their best player.

Originally Posted by Tony29.

It was all-Kaka !
Don't take this literally because Milan wouldn't have won it with Kaka and 10 primavera players. You have to have 11 good players to win CL, but when a player brakes up defenses like Kaka, when he creates chances, scores 50% of the goals, makes most of the assists and makes the opponents nervous and crazy, then you can use "ALL-Kaka"
Don't listen to me...listen to numerous MM members who during the season have said many times how Milan is " one man team" .

If you took out one player from Milan's team ( be it Nesta, Seedorf, Pirlo, Dida or even Gattuso) Milan could have , probably, still won the CL. But if you take Kaka out of the team Milan not only that wouldn't have won CL and would have been eliminated in March or early April already , but would have also missed out on CL next year because you'd have hardly gotten the 4th place ( my opinion, of course. We can't know this for sure)

You can't look at the things the way you do in your post. If Kaka wasn't there, matches wouldn't have gone the way they did. For example, in Manchester, if he didn't use his magic and scored a brace, then that match could have easily finished 3:0 and everything would have been different

How can you be so sure if Kaka was taken from the team Milan would not win the CL? Yes, Kaka indeed Milan top scorer but what you dont count is players' spirit. If Kaka wouldn't play, you think Milan could not make a goal? From the beginning of knock out, Milan used 4-3-2-1 formation. If Kaka was not in there, would you say milan couldnt score? No, Milan still could score. The team who won CL 2007 is not the Milan team before. The spirit is the diffrent point. Milan had many problems from the beginning. But those problems are only a advantage thing for Milan because they made Milan stronger from mentality point of view. They make players more enthusism.

Milan vs MU was the best macth to watch Milan spirit.

Originally Posted by kris

The games that counted, yes. although I did this check up in february, I reckon you think about the last games of the season, like the Reggina one? that was not a competitive game for us and we seriously suck at those.

Not that it's important....... but even this isn't completely true because Kaka hardly ever missed a game that counted.
Kaka didn't play on only 10 matches this season. 4 of these matches were won, 2 were draws and 4 were lost. 3 were coppa matches ( not important. twice Milan won without him against Brescia and once you lost against Arezzo)
1 was CL absolutely not important match ( you lost it against Lille) and 6 were serie A matches ( 3 were not important at all because you already had the 4th place secured...you lost 2 of these and won one , and the other 3 were important... in these three you were plain awful eventhough you didn't lose a single match. Draw 2:2 against Cagliari, draw 0:0 at home against Torino with missed penalty by Gila and only 1 win against Reggina where, i stand 100% behind this, Reggina was really the better team...check the game thread to confirm this)

But there is one more thing that i can't totally prove but i do remember very well. Whenever Kaka was playing bad Milan was eather losing eather getting hard fought draws. When he was good, even if all the others played bad, Milan was winning.

What i am trying to say, and i'm glad to see that 3 more people agree with me, is that if Kaka played in any other quarterfinalist (apart from PSV maybe) that team would have probably won the CL ( speculative, i know ). That's how superior Kaka was

Originally Posted by Tony29.

The first goal was scored by Cristiano Ronaldo. Milan didn't score first !


Siregar was talking like the matches would have gone the same way with or without Kaka. He said that if he didn't play and score against Celtic the match would have gone to penalties, when, even though it could have happened, we don't know if without Kaka Milan wouldn't have lost 1:0 in regular time or won 3:0.

He said that if Kaka wasn't there and didn't score a brace after Ronaldo opened the score, the match would have finished 1:0 for ManU.
I just said there's no way we could know it and that it could have easily finished 3:0 for ManU ( just like it could have finished 1:1, 2:1, 1:2)

According to his logic, the matches would have went the same way, only that Kaka's goals wouldn't have been scored.

I just only wanted to say that if we took Kaka away from Milan, Milan COULD still win the CL. Against ManU in Old Trafford, the game could go for 1-0 1-1 2-0 2-1 etc. but I am quite sure that Milan would be more enthusiasm just like they faced Bayern in quarter final. Who counted Milan against Bayern in Muenchen even we have Kaka? You could see in that game, Kaka's contribution is much less then against Bayern in San Siro.

The game in San Siro against MU, it could go diffrent but no body knows. With or without Kaka, Milan still had chance to go to Final, that's for sure. So, we cant say, the last thropy was all-Kaka because this is not a sure thing!

Who cares? We are the champions of Europe.

When trying to take Kaka away from Milan, why not take Gerrard away from Liverpool as he won them the 05 final, R10 from Barca last year as he got them into the final, the list goes on and on.

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

To be honest, if Milan take away Kaka, Milan would be playing in the UEFA Cup this season and would not have advance pass the semi of CL.

No, mate! You cant say that. We CANT know what would happen if Kaka was not in Milan. Milan COULD be playing UEFA cup this season but not WOULD be playing UEFA this season etc etc. You talked about uncertainty.