Winter Mercato

Originally Posted by kris

The question of how good a deal was is always answered in 1-4 seasons from when it was done, in this case I would say we can see how it will pan out two years from this day.

that was the first point I made - we'll know how great of a deal, or not, it's in 3-4 years time when he will be a much more established player.

I have a great respect for the men in Milan who authorised this, they usually know what they do. The extravagant price is due to the current market climate and since we ain't a poor club we should be to stingy about someone we want or we will always end up with none.

I have that respect too and I have faith in them although I am sure you won't break a sweat in naming awhole bunch of failed transfers among many successful ones too ...

here we are talking about taking a risk too, nothing short of that, considering the age and little experience of a player. There are so many unknown variable involved here until Pato becomes the finished article that even the best scouting can bring us only hope, and not assurances, that Pato would meet the expectations - to become the next great thing like Kaka and Dinho and nothing short of that, hence the investment Milan has made.

There were some other factors involved here that may have forced Milan to make a more hasted decision than they usually do - all the big clubs ready to pounce on the player, all that media hype, and the desire of Milan (Silvio and Galliani) to get the next Dinho before he's moved to a big club and become "untouchable" ... that desire to outsmart the rest may have well steered Milan out of their ususal course of action, if you know what I mean.

Extravagant pricing and market climates, however, will have very little say in what player Pato will grow into ... they only make even a greater risk out of an investment.

Originally Posted by kris

The question of how good a deal was is always answered in 1-4 seasons from when it was done, in this case I would say we can see how it will pan out two years from this day.

I have a great respect for the men in Milan who authorised this, they usually know what they do. The extravagant price is due to the current market climate and since we ain't a poor club we should be to stingy about someone we want or we will always end up with none.

this is a good post to quote when answering on zlat's.

You are the one who always supports our management, right? I'm one of those who curses on them often

I'm sure Berlu, considering how tight he is in the last couple of years, wouldn't approve the transfer if management thought there's even a little chance Pato will be a failure (do not try to use Oliveira here, it was an exception during CPoli). They did their job on him, and invested according to their low risk expectations.

and besides, transfer market inflates all the time, the best players in the world could cost 200 300 mil € by the time Pato reaches 25

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

Zlat you are right with your quotes, but the chances that Pato succeed in my opinion are much bigger, and by succeed I mean he will be a very great player. I'm sure Milan did their homework well, and when they invested heavily in young talents they rarely were wrong. Examples Scheva, Van Basten and Kaka.
Milan channel started already comparing him with the great Pele, as he also shined at the age of 17.

the hype Milan Channel is throwing on Pato has very little relevence to reality, Charlie ... it's no different the rest of the media hype Pato has received.
Should he fail to meet the expectations, however, I can guarantee you the media will just find themselves another "golden boy" in less than a year and Pato will be forgotten ... very much like Robinho to Real M affair when a year later after the transfer, the only time we heard his name mentioned was when someone was listing Real M bench players.

On kaka there is already a bit of 90mls euro, and this is not the market value of his price. I'm sure if Milan ask for more they will get it, but the problem is that these players are priceless as they are not for sale.

that's the point Charlie - Pato is not one of these players, Milan wants to believe he will be but that's a big difference from him actually becoming like Kaka.
kaka is like an exception to a rule, and giving him as justification for the transfer of any young player is like believeing that just because there was one exception, there will be others to follow ... without any solid justification.

Thi shortness of great players in the market will create a race between the clubs to grap the promising youngsters.

Like in all other markets when the demand is higher than the supply, prices will not be cheap.

yeas, I perfectly understand that but after all if a transfer is a great deal is not decided by how hyped that young player is but if that player grows into a great player after some time i.e. we can only wait to see if Pato was a great move or not.

Originally Posted by Stitch

and besides, transfer market inflates all the time, the best players in the world could cost 200 300 mil € by the time Pato reaches 25

Or they could cost 30m euro. The records from 2000 and 2001 still stand and you can now hardly see any team paying 40m euro for a player, something that happened ~10 times in 2000 and 2001.

Very good 2 posts Zlat. I just want to ask you where did you get the numbers ?
I see Milan payed 15m euro only for Pato but i can't find what are the other 7m for ( because you said it's 22m). Are all 7m for his agent ?

And his wages start at 1.2 million euro and will finish at 2 million in 2011 so in 5 years if my estimations are correct, he'll get 8m euro only from wages + all the bonuses for scored goals, made assists, wins, draws, winning a trophy. (your calculations were ok about the wages but the 7m from his price are confusing me)

Originally Posted by Tony29.

Or they could cost 30m euro. The records from 2000 and 2001 still stand and you can now hardly see any team paying 40m euro for a player, something that happened ~10 times in 2000 and 2001.

Very good 2 posts Zlat. I just want to ask you where did you get the numbers ?
I see Milan payed 15m euro only for Pato but i can't find what are the other 7m for ( because you said it's 22m). Are all 7m for his agent ?

And his wages start at 1.2 million euro and will finish at 2 million in 2011 so in 5 years if my estimations are correct, he'll get 8m euro only from wages + all the bonuses for scored goals, made assists, wins, draws, winning a trophy. (your calculations were ok about the wages but the 7m from his price are confusing me)

22 million was in gazzetta.

If Milan did not pay this much for Pato, I'm sure some other team would do it in a heartbeat. From a financial point of view it may not be a reasonable thing to do indeed, but looking at transfer market, it's a must if a club wants to have continued success.

Originally Posted by Tony29.

Or they could cost 30m euro. The records from 2000 and 2001 still stand and you can now hardly see any team paying 40m euro for a player, something that happened ~10 times in 2000 and 2001.

Very good 2 posts Zlat. I just want to ask you where did you get the numbers ?
I see Milan payed 15m euro only for Pato but i can't find what are the other 7m for ( because you said it's 22m). Are all 7m for his agent ?

And his wages start at 1.2 million euro and will finish at 2 million in 2011 so in 5 years if my estimations are correct, he'll get 8m euro only from wages + all the bonuses for scored goals, made assists, wins, draws, winning a trophy. (your calculations were ok about the wages but the 7m from his price are confusing me)

basically in all sources, the amount mentioned is 22 mil euros - 14.5 for the buy-out clause goes to Internacional + 7.5 goes to the player and the agent (assuming equally divided).

Also, the latest I read on the salary is that he signed a 5 year deal worth 10 mil (I think euros) for the whole period, so roughly 2 mil/year but even if it was 10 mil US, it won't make much of a dif.

Originally Posted by kris

The question of how good a deal was is always answered in 1-4 seasons from when it was done, in this case I would say we can see how it will pan out two years from this day.

I have a great respect for the men in Milan who authorised this, they usually know what they do. The extravagant price is due to the current market climate and since we ain't a poor club we should be to stingy about someone we want or we will always end up with none.

It's not an extravagant price. He's arguably the best young player in the World, you can't expect to pay peanuts.

And also, i don't know for sure, but these 8-10m for the wages, are they neto or it's how much Pato will get ?
Considering the taxes, it may very well mean that Milan will have to pay 16-20m euro for his wages, not 8 or 10.

Originally Posted by Tony29.

And also, i don't know for sure, but these 8-10m for the wages, are they neto or it's how much Pato will get ?
Considering the taxes, it may very well mean that Milan will have to pay 16-20m euro for his wages, not 8 or 10.

good point, I'm pretty sure it's the net sum i.e. how much Pato will get

Bronzetti: 'Emerson all'Inter è cosa fatta'

16:31 del 03 agosto

L'istancabile Ernesto Bronzetti dà per fatto il trasferimento di Emerson in nerazzurro. "La cosa dovrebbe essere ormai fatta`, ha detto l'agente Fifa nel corso di un intervento telefonico a Radio Radio.

Bronzetti said that Emerson to Inter is a done deal.

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

Bronzetti: 'Emerson all'Inter è cosa fatta'

16:31 del 03 agosto

L'istancabile Ernesto Bronzetti dà per fatto il trasferimento di Emerson in nerazzurro. "La cosa dovrebbe essere ormai fatta`, ha detto l'agente Fifa nel corso di un intervento telefonico a Radio Radio.

Bronzetti said that Emerson to Inter is a done deal.

For Christ sake, what do they need him for ? I'd understand if Milan or Juve get Emerson because they don't have too much quality at DM , but Inter has Vieira and Cambiasso, plus they have another quality DM in Dacourt.

It may turn out to be very good for us if they buy him, though. He was continuously attacking Vieira and Ibra during the last season and Materazzi made it clear that Emo isn't wanted in Inter by the Inter players.

Originally Posted by Tony29.

For Christ sake, what do they need him for ? I'd understand if Milan or Juve get Emerson because they don't have too much quality at DM , but Inter has Vieira and Cambiasso, plus they have another quality DM in Dacourt.

It may turn out to be very good for us if they buy him, though. He was continuously attacking Vieira and Ibra during the last season and Materazzi made it clear that Emo isn't wanted in Inter by the Inter players.

from this aspect, I agree that Emerson's arrival could cause quite a boumerang effect on Inter but I can't say I'd happy to see a solid player like him go there.

Still, earlier today Moratti declared inter's mercato closed and he specifically mentioned the CM role not needing any reinforcements with the presence of Vieira, Dacourt, and Cambiasso ... and I don't see a reason why he would keep a move for emerson a secret if Inter really wanted to get him.

Maybe Bronzetti was wrong about it - like in Chivu's case for his move to Barca/Real - plus his exact words were "voices/rumours here in Moscow" (or soemthing of the kind) i.e. probably he doesn't have first hand info.

Originally Posted by zlatanov

the hype Milan Channel is throwing on Pato has very little relevence to reality, Charlie ... it's no different the rest of the media hype Pato has received.
Should he fail to meet the expectations, however, I can guarantee you the media will just find themselves another "golden boy" in less than a year and Pato will be forgotten ... very much like Robinho to Real M affair when a year later after the transfer, the only time we heard his name mentioned was when someone was listing Real M bench players.

that's the point Charlie - Pato is not one of these players, Milan wants to believe he will be but that's a big difference from him actually becoming like Kaka.
kaka is like an exception to a rule, and giving him as justification for the transfer of any young player is like believeing that just because there was one exception, there will be others to follow ... without any solid justification.

yeas, I perfectly understand that but after all if a transfer is a great deal is not decided by how hyped that young player is but if that player grows into a great player after some time i.e. we can only wait to see if Pato was a great move or not.

1. No, I do not agree here.
My argument was that Milan studied this move very well by Berlusconi himself and all the other stuff including Ancellotti, who went there in person to watch him live.
My examples of players were to show you that Milan rarely failed in such transfers, and Kaka was not an exeption, even Van Basten and Scheva are considered so.
I also do not consider Milan Channel like the other Media, but the voice of Milan's officials.

2. I agree that Pato is not one of these players, and there is a certain risk.
In all type of businesses there is always risk, but the good business man is to calculate his risks and transform them into great profits.
(Something I am sure that even you agree that our Silvio is a MASTER in this field.)

3.Yes I agree, that only time will give us assurance, and not how much hyped a player is.
But to achieve success in your business and make good deals you have to take very good calculated risks.

Sorry mods for the double post.
Please kindly can someone delete the first one.