All posts re: the Italian Football Scandal (Moggipoli)

Originally Posted by zlatanov

To all this, I will respond with facts - how many titles has Milan won over the past 10-11 years, and how many has Juve won (most of them among tons of suspicious/controversial calls and games altogether)?

Zlatanov, you can't possibly put it this way.
As Giovanni told me once: You're taking the last 10 years because it suits you in this case.
Take the last 20 years , since Berlusconi is Milan's owner and you'll get different picture.

Originally Posted by zlatanov

How come Milan, being the best team in Italy by a long shot over the past 2 seasons, always finished second with, again, a whole gallore of controversial calls going for Juve, especially last season? What is the point the "center of all power" - as Moggi tries to describe Milan - even in years when we have the best team around, to finish with empty hands two years in a row? What sense does it make? Milan and Silvio using their might to get a second place when even two consecutive titles would have hardly raised any eyebrows given the overal strength of the team?

Well, Milan is arguably the best team in Italy. But don't you think people outside this forum don't share your opinion. IMO, both clubs were at the same level. And even players such as Nesta, Gattuso, Gilardino and il capitano Maldini publicly said that Juventus deserved the tittle because they were the best this year.
Why did Milan finish 2nd in last 2 years ?
if you're saying that Milan had no use of fixing, because they ended up as second, then this can be concidered as truth, if you don't follow Calcio. But if we know that both teams were equal on points last year and that 1 single match between them decided the tittle, And also , only 3 points separated both teams this year, then i can't say that Juve was doing dirty job while Milan was clean. Eather both are clean, eather both dirty.
It was a close race both years, and only very small details, better luck, or even playing little more dirty than the opponents gave Juve the tittles, and not Milan.
I remind you: Meani is caught asking for referees and getting them.Moggi was caught for the same thing also. It's all clear here - both teams dirty. 2 teams can't win 1 tittle. This time it happened Moggi to be more "succesful" than his Milan klon.
But Moggi was Juve's general director and he was caught, while Milan directors were not caught, but it was Meani who was caught helping Milan.

But IMO, even if it was all clean, and no fixing was involved, it would have been Milan vs Juve for the tittle, and the chances for Juve winning both Scudettos would be still big.
That's why i say: Juve to Serie B, Milan -12 points deduction, and Juve's tittles not vindicated but given to the best placed clean team...in this case Inter

Originally Posted by zlatanov

I invite you to stop trying playing a Moggi on us with those desperate attempts to "share" the guilt with someone, and start using a bit more rational thinking based on FACTS, not stroies and theories that you'd love to be true.

Wow, you couldn't have said this...but you did. Weren't you reading in last days Zlat ?

To remind you :

"I want Ayroldi and Stagnoli as linesmen" ---- he got them
" i want Puglisi as linesmen: ------- he got him (and then we have conversation between Meani and Puglisi where Puglisi says "we must beat this Interistas" ..... the ref Meani asked for in Chievo match is a Milanista...suprise, suprise)

This is a FACT, isn't it ? or it's also story and theory ?

I mean, i read Moggi's transcripts ( where he didn't ask for refs) and i was 100% sure he was cheating and controlling refs, but you read Meani transcripts and you still believe nothing happened, and Milan was only a victim !
Our conversation is useless if you can't see what was happening in Calcio, the complete picture !

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

Lawyer Mario Stagliano said these words not Guido Rossi.

Doh...thanks. I made a mistake when I was reading it because they talked about Rossi in the sub-headline.

Is Stagliano in a position of influence? Would he have a better idea? Who exactly is he?

I think he was one of the lawyers investigating the FIGC?

Originally Posted by Hasan Rossonero

Doh...thanks. I made a mistake when I was reading it because they talked about Rossi in the sub-headline.

Is Stagliano in a position of influence? Would he have a better idea? Who exactly is he?

I think he was one of the lawyers investigating the FIGC?

He is an ex investigator. Obviously he is an expert in these issues, so his opinion has much more weight than mine, yours or Tony's 29....lol

Originally Posted by Tony 29

Zlatanov, you can't possibly put it this way.
As Giovanni told me once: You're taking the last 10 years because it suits you in this case.
Take the last 20 years , since Berlusconi is Milan's owner and you'll get different picture.

Well, Milan is arguably the best team in Italy. But don't you think people outside this forum don't share your opinion. IMO, both clubs were at the same level. And even players such as Nesta, Gattuso, Gilardino and il capitano Maldini publicly said that Juventus deserved the tittle because they were the best this year.
Why did Milan finish 2nd in last 2 years ?
if you're saying that Milan had no use of fixing, because they ended up as second, then this can be concidered as truth, if you don't follow Calcio. But if we know that both teams were equal on points last year and that 1 single match between them decided the tittle, And also , only 3 points separated both teams this year, then i can't say that Juve was doing dirty job while Milan was clean. Eather both are clean, eather both dirty.
It was a close race both years, and only very small details, better luck, or even playing little more dirty than the opponents gave Juve the tittles, and not Milan.
I remind you: Meani is caught asking for referees and getting them.Moggi was caught for the same thing also. It's all clear here - both teams dirty. 2 teams can't win 1 tittle. This time it happened Moggi to be more "succesful" than his Milan klon.
But Moggi was Juve's general director and he was caught, while Milan directors were not caught, but it was Meani who was caught helping Milan.

But IMO, even if it was all clean, and no fixing was involved, it would have been Milan vs Juve for the tittle, and the chances for Juve winning both Scudettos would be still big.
That's why i say: Juve to Serie B, Milan -12 points deduction, and Juve's tittles not vindicated but given to the best placed clean team...in this case Inter





Wow, you couldn't have said this...but you did. Weren't you reading in last days Zlat ?

To remind you :

"I want Ayroldi and Stagnoli as linesmen" ---- he got them
" i want Puglisi as linesmen: ------- he got him (and then we have conversation between Meani and Puglisi where Puglisi says "we must beat this Interistas" ..... the ref Meani asked for in Chievo match is a Milanista...suprise, suprise)

This is a FACT, isn't it ? or it's also story and theory ?

I mean, i read Moggi's transcripts ( where he didn't ask for refs) and i was 100% sure he was cheating and controlling refs, but you read Meani transcripts and you still believe nothing happened, and Milan was only a victim !
Our conversation is useless if you can't see what was happening in Calcio, the complete picture !

The Milan of Sacchi and Capello was the best team not only in Italy but in the world overall and dominated football for a decade. There is hardly anyone surprised by the fact that that super-team won so many titles as they were fully deserved ... the team was at least a level or 2 above it's closest competitors and that was thanks to the fact that Silvio was the "godfather" of what Roman Abramovich is trying to do today - pur money, lots of it, into a team and simply "buy" its dominance of world football.
This has hardly been the case with Juve over half of the 10 years in question, especially the last 2 seasons. And while Milan's wins back then were simply taken for granted due to the team's stunning superiority over others, Juve's recent success has puzzled not one or two people with all the controversial calls they've got. All in all, it's been clear as day all along that there was something fishy about all the titles, the one thing that was missing was the proof/evidence for it.

you missed one possibility - one team, the better one is clean, and the only way for the inferior team to win the title is to get dirty. makes a lot of sense, don;t you think? Given how better Milan have been recently, especially the previous season, the only way for Juve to overcome Milan is by cheating. And the reason why both teams were so close together - at 3 pts or less than that - was simply because Milan was just too good and won lots and lots of points, while Juve got suspicious calls, one after the other, in order to keep them equal to Milan. Don't you remember the final 1/3 of the campionatto last year? The refs did the impossible to keep Juve close to Milan and all Juve had to do is wait for Milan to make a wrong step and voila - Juve jumps up ahead of them. Pretty foolproof scenario, I think given that Milan were torn in 2 between Serie A and CL till the very end of the season.

All those "quotes" that you gave me are very different in different newspapers. From what the prosecutrs say, hoiwever, Milan seems to have tried to limit the damage from Juve's powergames rather than influence the title race, Juve-style. there was even talk of galliani threathening Moggi and his buddies with some "dossier" if they don't stop manipulating the calcio.
The one thing that could damage us are those meani calls asking for refs, but refs that were not influenced by Juve (like the linesmen in the Sienna-Milan game). And all those quotes appear in very different form depending on the nespaper the published them - in Torin's TuttoSport, Milan appears to be even more involved than Juve themsleves, you can check it out yourself.
What's important is what the prosecutors have and those i hope are the original taps, not some journalist's interpretation.
it's normal to assume that if the calcio was dirty then there is no way of Milan being clean, but again these are mostly assumptions. that's why I aksed to base you rationale on facts and those facts tell that Milan must be the dumbest cheaters ever if they are indeed involved in all this insanity Italian football is going through. And please don't mention titles won by Milan 20 years ago when the team was in a league of its own and juve weren't even among our competitos for the scudetto - Inter, Napoli, Samp were so much better back then, so one could hardly "suspect" some long-term pact between Juve and Milan to share scudetto's over a 20 year term or whatever theories I read recently here.

Originally Posted by Tony 29

Take the last 20 years , since Berlusconi is Milan's owner and you'll get different picture.

Our conversation is useless if you can't see what was happening in Calcio, the complete picture !

We won two scudettos during a two year period where we didn't get a single penalty.

Yes. Indeed, the Juve fans have been talking about this time and again "the complete picture" which in their mind means other clubs must have cheated and then Juve can go free.

Originally Posted by kris

We won two scudettos during a two year period where we didn't get a single penalty.

Yes. Indeed, the Juve fans have been talking about this time and again "the complete picture" which in their mind means other clubs must have cheated and then Juve can go free.

Of course that's the attitude alot of fans, and not just juventinos, would take. "My team would never cheat, therefore whoever won must have." And I'm referring to people IN Italy, so you would hope they actually have a sense of the complete picture! Of course we milanista always suspect Juve of being favored, and rightfully so considering some of the calls that would have to be on video tape if anyone cared to check them!

Originally Posted by Tony 29

Zlatanov, you can't possibly put it this way.
As Giovanni told me once: You're taking the last 10 years because it suits you in this case.
Take the last 20 years , since Berlusconi is Milan's owner and you'll get different picture.

Well, Milan is arguably the best team in Italy. But don't you think people outside this forum don't share your opinion. IMO, both clubs were at the same level. And even players such as Nesta, Gattuso, Gilardino and il capitano Maldini publicly said that Juventus deserved the tittle because they were the best this year.
Why did Milan finish 2nd in last 2 years ?
if you're saying that Milan had no use of fixing, because they ended up as second, then this can be concidered as truth, if you don't follow Calcio. But if we know that both teams were equal on points last year and that 1 single match between them decided the tittle, And also , only 3 points separated both teams this year, then i can't say that Juve was doing dirty job while Milan was clean. Eather both are clean, eather both dirty.
It was a close race both years, and only very small details, better luck, or even playing little more dirty than the opponents gave Juve the tittles, and not Milan.
I remind you: Meani is caught asking for referees and getting them.Moggi was caught for the same thing also. It's all clear here - both teams dirty. 2 teams can't win 1 tittle. This time it happened Moggi to be more "succesful" than his Milan klon.
But Moggi was Juve's general director and he was caught, while Milan directors were not caught, but it was Meani who was caught helping Milan.

But IMO, even if it was all clean, and no fixing was involved, it would have been Milan vs Juve for the tittle, and the chances for Juve winning both Scudettos would be still big.
That's why i say: Juve to Serie B, Milan -12 points deduction, and Juve's tittles not vindicated but given to the best placed clean team...in this case Inter





Wow, you couldn't have said this...but you did. Weren't you reading in last days Zlat ?

To remind you :

"I want Ayroldi and Stagnoli as linesmen" ---- he got them
" i want Puglisi as linesmen: ------- he got him (and then we have conversation between Meani and Puglisi where Puglisi says "we must beat this Interistas" ..... the ref Meani asked for in Chievo match is a Milanista...suprise, suprise)

This is a FACT, isn't it ? or it's also story and theory ?

I mean, i read Moggi's transcripts ( where he didn't ask for refs) and i was 100% sure he was cheating and controlling refs, but you read Meani transcripts and you still believe nothing happened, and Milan was only a victim !
Our conversation is useless if you can't see what was happening in Calcio, the complete picture !

PURE RUBBISH!

Are you a lackey of Moggi? wake up from your dreams. you have just read some lies and believe it to be true. you are NAIVE if you ever think juve is on the small level as Milan for the past few seasons. There are so many people that are impressed with milan's play and considered milan as one of the 2 best teams in Europe while nobody ever thought juve play well especially in the UCL. How do you play so badly and still get all the points? ask Moggi, he will tell you how. Unless you can produce concrete evidence against Milan, stop all your stupid assumptions, guesses.

If Milan is involved in this crap then i have got nothing to say but until now, its just pure nonsense to think milan is acting like Moggi. We play well, sometimes getting calls for us and against us but definitely not like juve who get all the calls going for them all the times and playing badly at the same times.

i urge all milan fans not to believe these crap that come from juve trying to make it seem like they are innocent.

Originally Posted by zlatanov

The Milan of Sacchi and Capello was the best team not only in Italy but in the world overall and dominated football for a decade

Honestly : It was, and i loved that team
But as you can see, you immediatelly found a way to defend the team, and when i'm doing the same, i'm just biased.
Ok, lets take away the last 2 years.
Now what was so suspicious in last 11 years of Juve domination.
Was Juve the best in midd 90's ? Yes ( don't mention the doping scandal There is no drug in the world that will make Juventus beat Milan at San Siro 1:6, if Juve was not classes better than Milan.)
Wasn't Juve playing in 3 straight CL finals ? Yes !
So, why are the Scudettos won in those years so suspicious to you. Believe it or not, Juve was just as superior than the other Italians, as Milan was in late eighties and early 90's. Not better than Sacchi's Milan, but just as superior comparing to the other teams.
Then we're coming to early 2000's. The team that was "fixing" lost 9 points advantage from Lazio, and lost the decisive match in Peruggia where with a win they would have taken the Scudetto.
Now i'll ask you the same question you asked me: what was the use of fixing matches for Juve when they finished second ?
If they were bying refs, couldn't they have bought at least 2 refs in last 6 matches ? 2 single wins in last 6 matches would have been enough for the title, but no, Juve lost all those matches ( except Parma match).
Then season 2001....Roma.
Roma was the best and deserved the tittle, but if Juve wanted to get the Scudetto by fixing , they would have done that. Juve lost 2:0 lead in Torino against Roma in last rounds. With a win there, we'd have been equal on points and everything could happen ( Clear Inzaghi goal was dissallowed back then, but nothing in the papers at all....i'm saying this in case you don't remember).
Seasons 2002, 2003.
I'm not guilty Inter were stupid enough to lose 3 out of the 4 last matches.
Season 2003 was pure class Juve. Superior in Serie A, lost the CL final from Milan.

2004 - Milan classes better than the others.

So, Zlat, where do you see suspicion here?

The way i'm presenting everything it gives the impression that Juve were angels, and i know they weren't.
Just as you're doing Zlat. You're making Milan angels who weren't doing anything, but were "classes better" than the others( Looooooooooooooooool. In last 4 matches you couldn't score a goal against Juve on 3 occasions, and you scored 3 goals after Chimenti was making clown out of himself....the better team will score at least 1 goal in 3 matches, no matter if it was Buffon at the goal)


And one last thing here :
Absolutely no doubt about Milan being the best team in the world during Sacchi and Capello era. But still.....
I don't know if you remember those years, but there really were talks about Berlusconi playing dirty. They all stopped after Juve got the primate in Serie A, and then everybody forgot Milan and started accusing Juve.

How much Juve is being attacked can be also seen by Cannavaro case.
The golden boy of Italian football, the angel, the best defender, bla, bla, bla.
Just after he joined Juve, he was concidered to be a Junky by the media.

My final point: Juve are no angles, but watching Berlusconi's media and reading his papers, you'll think Moggi controls everything in this world.

Originally Posted by zlatanov

you missed one possibility - one team, the better one is clean, and the only way for the inferior team to win the title is to get dirty. makes a lot of sense, don;t you think? Given how better Milan have been recently, especially the previous season, the only way for Juve to overcome Milan is by cheating.

Or maybe you're missing this possibility :Juve was 100 classes better than Milan and that's why Juve wins everything and Milan is left with one big Zero.

Now, i don't really mean what i just said, but the word for both mine and your statements is : Subjectivity ...or even better : Biase.

Zlat, how can you say Juve was inferior to Milan ? Milan was playing more enjoyable football, but it hardly means they were better than Juve. I enjoy watching Sevilla and i hate watching the boring football Chelsea plays, but it doesn't means Chelsea are inferior to Sevilla, does it ?
And again: Some of your club legends said loud and clear that Juve deserved the tittle because they were the BEST team this season.

Originally Posted by zlatanov

Don't you remember the final 1/3 of the campionatto last year? The refs did the impossible to keep Juve close to Milan and all Juve had to do is wait for Milan to make a wrong step and voila - Juve jumps up ahead of them.

I do remember....frankly, i don't remember suspicious call for Juve in final 1/3 of the championship, neather for Milan. But i do remember that Milan's matches against Chievo and Fiorentina were in this part of the championship, and at the time when they were equal on points with Juve.

P.S : i just remembered about Roma-Juve match...yes, Juve got the win from the refs. It wasn't a penalty when DP scored the goal.

Welcome back Tony! I knew your good-bye wasnt permanent!!...and dont leave, its good to read your posts, and the arguments/discussions with Zlat and all the others.

As much as you are biased for Juve (and I wouldnt expect otherwise) I find your posts as "fair" as possible, considering the circumstances.

No poster here, IMHO, can be completely unbiased, unless he is a NY Knicks fan, and just "wonders" into the site...

Suffice it to say however, that there is no way...no way, Milan are even half as guilty as Moggi/Juve. If the man can appoint a Pope, then how powerful was he really?

And I am quite amazed that you think Juve will be relegated...as guilty as they (collectively) are, they are waaaay too powerful to face the drop, and would this be in Berlu´s interest, seeing how many millions he has paid them for tv rights? (Unless of course, there is a clause that recinds these funds if they drop to Serie B...which I hope there is..but seeing how all-powerful they are, I doubt anyone would even dream of such a possibility).

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

Welcome back Tony! I knew your good-bye wasnt permanent!!...and dont leave, its good to read your posts, and the arguments/discussions with Zlat and all the others.

As much as you are biased for Juve (and I wouldnt expect otherwise) I find your posts as "fair" as possible, considering the circumstances.

No poster here, IMHO, can be completely unbiased, unless he is a NY Knicks fan, and just "wonders" into the site...

Suffice it to say however, that there is no way...no way, Milan are even half as guilty as Moggi/Juve. If the man can appoint a Pope, then how powerful was he really?

And I am quite amazed that you think Juve will be relegated...as guilty as they (collectively) are, they are waaaay too powerful to face the drop, and would this be in Berlu´s interest, seeing how many millions he has paid them for tv rights? (Unless of course, there is a clause that recinds these funds if they drop to Serie B...which I hope there is..but seeing how all-powerful they are, I doubt anyone would even dream of such a possibility).

Hi there Warro. Heh, i really thought it will be a permanent goodbye ... i was wrong.

Listen, even i as a Juve fan think that Juve did a looot more illegal stuff than the other teams ( by Juve i mean Moggi).
I'm not hiding my thoughts and that's why i think Juve should be sent to B, and Milan+the others involved should start the season with -12 , -10, or - 8 points.
I don't want Juve to be relegated, of course i don't, and i'd be really happy if they manage to get out of this s**t, but it won't be fair at all i guess.

But i really get nervous when i read how inferior we were in Serie A. Lol, i don't know, maybe we really were and i didn't notice it.
But until i have "profs" that Juve wasn't inferior, but really was equal or even better than the others, i'll be here "fighting" with you !

Hey, and no hard feelings if you find some of my words insulting for your club, and insulting for you because it's totally different from what you believe.
That's why this is a forum..so we can debate.

Although, this time i won't be as active as i was in my glorious 10 days here ..hehe, but i'll drop by from time to time !

Agreed Tony29, this is what forums are all about, the fact that this one is devoted to Milan, doesnt preclude you from joining us...and as you have stated your admiration for the Sacci/Capello Milan, you are obviously a fan of "football" in general.

I am in no way insulted by what you have posted to date, indeed, what I and others have said about Juve present and past, is equal, or exceeds the rancour that you may spew about Milan in your posts.

So, feel free to drop in ever so often, and if other members have a problem with your presence, tell them to take it up with me.

The bottom line is, you are a fellow human being (albeit a lesser one, since you support Juve...psyche, just kidding) and should be treated with the commiserate respect.

I think this hasn't been mentioned here. It's from Gazzetta dello Sport:

"Stando a quanto si legge in queste informative, la Juventus ha condizionato l'intero campionato 2004/05. Non stiamo parlando del classico illecito sportivo. Nessuna delle squadre coinvolte in questo scandalo si è comprata il portiere della squadra avversaria o l'arbitro". Nel numero dell'Espresso in edicola domani l'avvocato Mario Stagliano, fino a due settimane fa vice capo dell'Ufficio indagini della Figc, dà il suo parere sullo scandalo delle intercettazioni. "La Juventus deve retrocedere in serie B e le si devono revocare gli scudetti del 2005 e 2006".
"Per quanto riguarda la Fiorentina - prosegue Stagliano - la vedo molto male: Diego Della Valle, il fratello Andrea e l'amministratore delegato Sandro Mencucci figurano in modo diretto e significativo nelle intercettazioni. Prima della partita decisiva del finale di campionato nel quale i viola si salvano per il rotto della cuffia, Mencucci parla con il vicepresidente della Figc Innocenzo Mazzini. E' chiaro dal contesto che i due si preoccupano di sistemare anche le partite delle squadre concorrenti. Per me dovrebbe andare in B, ma potrebbe salvarsi per il principio di gradualità. Se la Juve va solo in serie B e non retrocede in C, equiparare la Fiorentina, mandando anche i viola in serie B, potrebbe essere ingiusto".
Stagliano parla poi di Lazio e Milan: "Non vedo rischi reali per i biancazzurri. A Lotito comunicano gli arbitri dopo che le designazioni sono pubbliche e lui non sa nemmeno chi sono. Le partite incriminate della Lazio non presentano particolari anomalie. Lui accetta il sistema e non denuncia nemmeno il presunto tentativo di combine di Della Valle. Si potrebbe ipotizzare a carico di Lotito un'omessa denuncia (art. 6) e una violazione dell'obbligo di probità sportiva (art. 1). La Lazio, secondo me, non rischia quasi nulla. Per quanto riguarda il Milan, infine, nelle telefonate del dirigente rossonero Leonardo Meani non vedo illeciti chiari. Certo, poi ne approfitta per chiedere di mandargli un assistente 'gradito' come Puglisi. Ma potrebbe essere considerata anche questa una legittima difesa".


For all those who don't speak italian:
Mario Stagliano, a lawyer who (up until 2 weeks ago) was involved in the investigations (so he knows the particulars...) says that based on the facts:
1. Juve should be relegated to B and stripped of the last two Scudettos
2. Fiorentina have to face serious consequences as well (but because they are not as guilty as Juve, if they go down to B, then Juve should be dropped to C)
3. Lazio and Milan are "clean".

So according to this we don't have much to be afraid of.

right on.....
i really really really really really hope that juve gets regulated to serie C. i would scream oh god yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.

juve F""K Youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Originally Posted by Ördöglány

For all those who don't speak italian:
Mario Stagliano, a lawyer who (up until 2 weeks ago) was involved in the investigations (so he knows the particulars...) says that based on the facts:
1. Juve should be relegated to B and stripped of the last two Scudettos
2. Fiorentina have to face serious consequences as well (but because they are not as guilty as Juve, if they go down to B, then Juve should be dropped to C)
3. Lazio and Milan are "clean".

So according to this we don't have much to be afraid of.

While its important to determine for whom this lawyer works, I am happy for the news. Thanks Ördöglány

Milan, Galliani: "Vogliono coinvolgere il Milan"
a cura di Redazione 02/06/2006
"C'è in atto un disperato e scorretto tentativo proveniente da Torino" dice l'a.d. rossonero a proposito di una partita addomesticata ipotizzata da "La Stampa".

E' in atto un tentativo di coinvolgere il Milan per alleggerire la posizione di chi tutti sappiamo". Così Adriano Galliani, prima di dare inizio al tradizionale work shop con gli sponsor in Sardegna, replica ad un articolo apparso oggi sul quotidiano 'La Stampa' secondo il quale vi sarebbero state telefonate "sospette" l'anno scorso tra alcuni dirigenti dell'Udinese e della stessa società di via Turati.

"Non so di che telefonata si tratti - dice Galliani - ma è evidente e ovvio, e appare anche a un bambino, che c'è in atto uno scorretto tentativo, proveniente da Torino, attraverso i suoi quotidiani politici e sportivi, e attraverso anche gli avvocati, di coinvolgere appunto il Milan. Evidentemente ci opporremo con tutte le nostre forze, ma chiunque capisce come mai tutto arrivi, con considerazioni varie, dalla città di Torino".
can anyone translate this post pls