Striker worthy the place of Andriy Shevchenko

Originally Posted by GilAttack [11]

2) I think it would be a realistic plan for Milan. You got two guys (Ibra-Tevez) that are crying "take me out of this living hell" and one team (Milan) that has shown willingness to upgrade their offensive side. If you are a buyer on today's market, and Milan can be considered in that mode, we shouldnt have much trouble picking both guys. Its about our desire to approach them and pay an OK price. We wouldnt need to overpay for Tevez and Ibra, this is the right moment to make a move for them.

Let me honestly and respectfully point out that, although these are good moves considered from a fan's point of view, we have absolutely no idea whether any of these 2 players will fit in the current system. That is, Tevez may be the type of guy we are looking for, because he is one who can dribble the ball well and also score. Or, he may NOT be the type of guy we are looking for, simply because the scouts don't believe that he can fit into the system well. Now we are in no position to judge except, if you want, under a bunch of number from Football Manager Game.

Having said, of course, I"m not against buying any of these 2 players; if not both.

Originally Posted by Jeff

Let me honestly and respectfully point out that, although these are good moves considered from a fan's point of view, we have absolutely no idea whether any of these 2 players will fit in the current system. That is, Tevez may be the type of guy we are looking for, because he is one who can dribble the ball well and also score. Or, he may NOT be the type of guy we are looking for, simply because the scouts don't believe that he can fit into the system well. Now we are in no position to judge except, if you want, under a bunch of number from Football Manager Game.

Having said, of course, I"m not against buying any of these 2 players; if not both.

Well, if Amoroso can fit "our system" then Tevez and Ibra can do it.

And what does it take to fit Milan' system?

Amoroso fit "our system"? Just because he is our 4th striker doesn't mean he fit in "our system". I'm still not sure what "our system" is, but I do know that Amoroso was never a part of "our system." I have to stop saying "our system" so much

Have patience.. our board understands that we MUST sign a striker this summer transfer season.. so it will be done. For now that striker seems to be Zlatan but don't be surprised if two strikers arrive this summer. Don't forget the surprise

Originally Posted by Vadim

Amoroso fit "our system"? Just because he is our 4th striker doesn't mean he fit in "our system". I'm still not sure what "our system" is, but I do know that Amoroso was never a part of "our system." I have to stop saying "our system" so much

In my mind Amoroso is just an "over ripe" fruit fallen down to the earth and unluckily the part of the earth was Milan.....Amoroso is just useless...maybe he got Alzheimer too soon and might score to our own net

Originally Posted by GilAttack [11]

Well, if Amoroso can fit "our system" then Tevez and Ibra can do it.

And what does it take to fit Milan' system?

Your argument is the same as saying, "if Kalac can fit "our system" then some other GK can do it". Of course I"m not talking about minor players like Amoroso or Kalac or whoever who played only a few games every year.

What's our system? perhaps system is not the best word, but there are several things that you find in common with Milan players these years:

1) None of them has ever made open declaration against Milan or anything like that. When Sheva left, he said he didn't want to except for family reason. All players leaving Milan keeps a good relationship so far, or at least the past 5 years (I can't beat you if you want to talk about Capello or Sacchi... back in that time).

2) None of the players have made any disciplinary error, except Gattuso who is rightfully forgiven.

3) Tactics: If you observe well, Milan played with different tactics, with Sheva the anchorman. Now that he is gone, tactics have chged. It's not like you can replace Sheva with another forward with equal ability. The fact is that you can't find another sheva-clone. Every player is different. Just like why Inzaghi didn't manage to play a lot of games in the WC: There are Toni and Gilardino who are very similar to him in nature. You wouldn't purchase Inzaghi if you already have players like him. Same old story.

The question now is whether Tevez or Ibra can do fit into the system. Or, whether the management believes that they can fit into the system. The new-signed frenchman maybe considered one who can adapt into the team well thanks to his vision and speed; but there are just so many things to be taken into account; not just say, "This guy is good. Let's buy him". If it's only this simple, then Real Madrid would have won all the CL already.

4) To answer your last question: it takes more than skills to become a long-term Milanese. Most don't qualify because they don't have the skills; but some also don't qualify due to history; Tevez and Ibra are well ahead in terms of qualification; the question is whether they can succeed. I'll prefer Ibra than Tevez to be honest. I don't like the fact that he is a short player, and you know that Milan is very poor at both defending and attacking set-piece thus far.

Believe it or not, it could be simply such simple reason (i.e. height) that determines whether a player comes or no. Tevez is an amazing player, no doubt; but I just don't think he'll be capable of scoring and scoring every now and then.

I also prefer Toni than any of these 2. This guy is, firsto f all, proven; 32 goals in 1 season. What more can you ask? But of course we already have Gilardino who is very similar in nature. If TOni and Gila really partner up front, then you will want to see a lot a lot of supply given to both of these strikers. Pirlo and Kaka will definitely be one; while the LB and RB has to go up constantly to widen the attack. Gattuso will need to take a huge responsibility in terms of midfield defense; while Seedorf (or whoever else) will need to work his a$$ off to control the midfield. Kaladze and Nesta should be able to take care of the defense, while Dida will remain between the posts. THis is the best scenario I would like to see. I guess I haven't really posted my thought on anywhere. But now that you know what I'm hoping for; I hope that you'll be satisfied. Finally, Gallas will be a very strong addition to the squad as well.

No, Real Madrid didnt win anything because they have no desire, their stars are over the hill type of guys and they care about their brand in China rather than what they do every sunday at Santiago Bernabeu. They dont have the best players. They dont know whats the meaning of team. Who is their best defender? An offensive minded back? They are a joke.

I really believe no one on his right mind would take Gilardino or Inzaghi over Tevez. And Im talking about people that have seen extended film from all three of them. Yeah, I know about my username, but Im a Milan supporter first. And sometimes I watch Gilardino and I just shake my head in disbelief (negative way). And yet, at the end of the day, you go pick the stats sheet and it says Gilardino was one of the top scorers in Italy. But it takes more than that to know a player. I think we cant trust someone like Gilardino in Europe, playing Milan's biggest matches. This guy just completely dissapears when it counts with some exceptions. Here Inzaghi has a huge lead over Gila.

If one team says no to a player because of his height, especially Milan, there is certainly a problem here. Really. And if they do think that is important, I would love to have Galliani or Braida come out and tell us so the entire world can make fun of us.

How can players like Ibra or Tevez be a bad fit for us? I dont understand that. I understand that Milan might prefer Torres over Ibra, but that is going to happen when comparing two players.

So if anyone knows what a striker has to bring to the table in order to be Milan worthy, please tell me. And take into consideration previous experiences like Tomasson, Crespo and guys we have nowadays like Inzaghi, Gilardino and Amoroso.

Any news on who is most likely to come?I hope its not Ibra...

seems like Ibra is on his way to Milan accordin' to reports... oh well... better him than no one i guess...

source www.goal.com

Ibrahimovic-Milan Deal Almost Sealed

Juventus will receive 28 million Euros for the Swedish player.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic is on the verge of joining Milan as the Bianconeri and Rossoneri have reached an agreement for the transfer of the forward, for a fee of around 28 million Euros.

With the Old Lady condemned to Serie B football, Ibrahimovic did not hide the fact that he did not want to play in a lower division.

Inter were also after him, but following the signing of Hernan Crespo, the Nerazzurri let go.

The player dubbed as 'the new Van Basten', should have the transfer become official by the end of the day, or latest within the next upcoming days.



28 Million !!! i just hope this is not true as i never like ibra.....just hate his attitute as shown to Juve.. Will he do the same to milan??

y does it hav 2 b ibraaaaaaaaaa

Originally Posted by GilAttack [11]

No, Real Madrid didnt win anything because they have no desire, their stars are over the hill type of guys and they care about their brand in China rather than what they do every sunday at Santiago Bernabeu. They dont have the best players. They dont know whats the meaning of team. Who is their best defender? An offensive minded back? They are a joke.

I really believe no one on his right mind would take Gilardino or Inzaghi over Tevez. And Im talking about people that have seen extended film from all three of them. Yeah, I know about my username, but Im a Milan supporter first. And sometimes I watch Gilardino and I just shake my head in disbelief (negative way). And yet, at the end of the day, you go pick the stats sheet and it says Gilardino was one of the top scorers in Italy. But it takes more than that to know a player. I think we cant trust someone like Gilardino in Europe, playing Milan's biggest matches. This guy just completely dissapears when it counts with some exceptions. Here Inzaghi has a huge lead over Gila.

If one team says no to a player because of his height, especially Milan, there is certainly a problem here. Really. And if they do think that is important, I would love to have Galliani or Braida come out and tell us so the entire world can make fun of us.

How can players like Ibra or Tevez be a bad fit for us? I dont understand that. I understand that Milan might prefer Torres over Ibra, but that is going to happen when comparing two players.

So if anyone knows what a striker has to bring to the table in order to be Milan worthy, please tell me. And take into consideration previous experiences like Tomasson, Crespo and guys we have nowadays like Inzaghi, Gilardino and Amoroso.

Here comes my answer:

I don't care whether Real Madrid stars want to win or not. They HAVE world class players; you can NEVER deny that. Saying that they have no desire to win is like saying whoever running in a 100-meter game have no desire to win. Once you are in the race, you are in the race. Once you play, you WANT to win. It's natural that you WANT to win. Even if you now play a 3vs3 against Gila Pirlo and Gattuso, you still want to go and have a shot. And you are right that they don't know what's a team; so to what extent can a player fit into the team (if you don't like the word system then?) Are you in a better position to tell than Ancelotti or Gallaini or Braida?

"I think we cant trust someone like Gilardino in Europe, playing Milan's biggest matches. This guy just completely dissapears when it counts with some exceptions. Here Inzaghi has a huge lead over Gila."

I appreciate the fact that you undersand that 'team comes first', but look. Does Gila has the same role as Inzaghi completely? Inzaghi is a natural poacher, one who needed to score in order to stay on the field. Gila is bigger, taller, and I'm sure you'll agree with me that he can hold the ball better than Inzaghi. I'm not going to get into all this tactics etc. here; there is no point. Your point is well-taken; Inzaghi has a huge lead over Gila but that's only because of Inzaghi's experience and the unusual onformness he got. In the long run, Gila is going to be on the same par as Inzaghi if not more. That's my opinion.

"If one team says no to a player because of his height, especially Milan, there is certainly a problem here. Really. And if they do think that is important, I would love to have Galliani or Braida come out and tell us so the entire world can make fun of us."

Of course they won't say something like this in the public to humiliate the players. But one thing you gotta understand: setpiece IS a problem, even with a huge moster like Stam. Perhaps more importantly, I'm just giving you an example of why some players won't fit into the team. If you find it ridiculous, that's fine. Having watched Milan for so many years, defending and attacking set-piece is the most disgusting thing I have found for the past few years.

"How can players like Ibra or Tevez be a bad fit for us?"

THis is the one-line paragraph I poster earlier:

"Having said, of course, I"m not against buying any of these 2 players; if not both" If in the end Milan didn't buy Tevez or Torres as SOOOO many people are dreaming, go and call Galliani and ask. If I were to know the answer, I won't even be talking to you here.

"So if anyone knows what a striker has to bring to the table in order to be Milan worthy, please tell me. And take into consideration previous experiences like Tomasson, Crespo and guys we have nowadays like Inzaghi, Gilardino and Amoroso."

My modest answer is I don't know. But "I don't know" doesn't mean that I'll have to bring in a famous player in order to try out. That's the problem sometimes with the Milan management (e.g. Rivaldo and Vieri).

I suggest you to re-read my posts and try to get what I'm saying. I repeat here: I don't object buying any of these 2 players; in fact, I would welcome them coming. But, if any of these players (including Torres) did not come, then it may due to so many possible exogenous factors that we have not known of. To that, I'll put my trust to the Milan management who, overall for the past 5 years, have been doing an excellent job.

Cheers.

Da*n it! It's soooo clear to me, Jeff.
Brilliantly said!
I totally agree with your view about what we should do as a fan regarding to this buying new player referring to the needs of the team according to our coach and the management.
They know about the team far and far better than us here.
So, if they decide to let Ibra in, (for God shake I really really hate Ibra especially when he played for Juve) I would welcome him and cheer for him for the rest of the time he plays for our side. And, ofcourse, I would cross my finger so he could change his attitude in the pitch and therefore he won't get our team into trouble on the field...

For now, on this Ibra case, all I can do is waiting...

Originally Posted by Jeff

Here comes my answer:

I don't care whether Real Madrid stars want to win or not. They HAVE world class players; you can NEVER deny that. Saying that they have no desire to win is like saying whoever running in a 100-meter game have no desire to win. Once you are in the race, you are in the race. Once you play, you WANT to win. It's natural that you WANT to win. Even if you now play a 3vs3 against Gila Pirlo and Gattuso, you still want to go and have a shot. And you are right that they don't know what's a team; so to what extent can a player fit into the team (if you don't like the word system then?) Are you in a better position to tell than Ancelotti or Gallaini or Braida?

No, they dont have the desire and they are world class NAMES, not players. At least many of them, that were past their prime for a long time. Desire is not entering the pitch wanting to win, is to train and work your tail off. Tell me about Ronaldo and his great shape, that only waits until the WC to put himself in good form. Thats not desire. Desire is playing both sides of the football real hard, not only when your team is moving foward.
If Gilardino can fit our system/team, then Tevez can do it as well. Natural talent + desire to be the best can top everything and fits every team or coach's system.

Originally Posted by Jeff

I appreciate the fact that you undersand that 'team comes first', but look. Does Gila has the same role as Inzaghi completely? Inzaghi is a natural poacher, one who needed to score in order to stay on the field. Gila is bigger, taller, and I'm sure you'll agree with me that he can hold the ball better than Inzaghi. I'm not going to get into all this tactics etc. here; there is no point. Your point is well-taken; Inzaghi has a huge lead over Gila but that's only because of Inzaghi's experience and the unusual onformness he got. In the long run, Gila is going to be on the same par as Inzaghi if not more. That's my opinion.

I dont agree. I think there are big game players and others that completely fail when they face the toughest challenge. Gilardino may be regarded as the best between the two, but if both are on the bench I go with Inzaghi without thinking twice about it. Saying that Gilardino can hold the ball better than Inzaghi is like saying Shaquille O'Neal can dribble the ball better than Patrick Ewing. By no means I want to get rid of Gila or Inzaghi, but you can sit here talking about them and find many holes in their games. And no, we are not winning to back up it up in some form. And we are going through a drought as a team, one that included Shevchenko that is heads and shoulders above Gilardino and Inzaghi. Yes, the team concept is very important but you also need the players.

Originally Posted by Jeff

Of course they won't say something like this in the public to humiliate the players. But one thing you gotta understand: setpiece IS a problem, even with a huge moster like Stam. Perhaps more importantly, I'm just giving you an example of why some players won't fit into the team. If you find it ridiculous, that's fine. Having watched Milan for so many years, defending and attacking set-piece is the most disgusting thing I have found for the past few years.

They wont humiliate any player, they would humiliate themselves. Barcelona won with monsters like Deco, Messi, Xavi, Ronaldinho, Gio in their squad. So? If you center your idea around setpiece, then your team will be most probably be incomplete or fail. Then lets sign Koller and call it a day. Again, not saying its not important but putting to much emphasis on that would be terrible.

Originally Posted by Jeff

"Having said, of course, I"m not against buying any of these 2 players; if not both" If in the end Milan didn't buy Tevez or Torres as SOOOO many people are dreaming, go and call Galliani and ask. If I were to know the answer, I won't even be talking to you here.

I wont call Galliani because he may be too busy asking for a linesman or something of that sort. But talking seriously, we go back to square one. Everyone seems to want to buy Tevez and/or Ibra but then Milan is the one that decides. Nothing to argue here.

Originally Posted by Jeff

My modest answer is I don't know. But "I don't know" doesn't mean that I'll have to bring in a famous player in order to try out. That's the problem sometimes with the Milan management (e.g. Rivaldo and Vieri).

I suggest you to re-read my posts and try to get what I'm saying. I repeat here: I don't object buying any of these 2 players; in fact, I would welcome them coming. But, if any of these players (including Torres) did not come, then it may due to so many possible exogenous factors that we have not known of. To that, I'll put my trust to the Milan management who, overall for the past 5 years, have been doing an excellent job.

Cheers.

Ibra and Tevez are more than names, although I support the Tevez signing more. When Vieri came here, I was totally dissapointed while many wanted to support him and the management for this move. Im against those kind of moves.

After some years of complete failure for a team like Milan, I dont know if I trust a management that was found guilty of corruption plus sold one of the best if not the best striker in the world (I know about Sheva's desire, but still).
Prove me wrong.

Originally Posted by GilAttack [11]

After some years of complete failure for a team like Milan, I dont know if I trust a management that was found guilty of corruption plus sold one of the best if not the best striker in the world (I know about Sheva's desire, but still).
Prove me wrong.

It should read a management that was found guilty of corruption by an Inter Milan controlled tribunal without valid proof of said corruption and it wasn't Sheva's desire but his blonde bimbo's desire that didn't want to stay in a "province city" (her direct quote) but move to a "world capital" like London instead. Sheva being a spineless clown didn't help of course.