All posts re: the Italian Football Scandal (Moggipoli)

Originally Posted by hitmannq8

A question to the Milan fans, and please no ridiculous answers: Do you all really believe that those transcripts are true? Is it even possible for someone to monitor them that closely and record that many conversations? Can someone please explain to me how reliable these conversations are? Im only interested in the conversations, not with the match-fixing for now. I mean, the way I see it is that it could have been faked. We all know how Juve are with refs and all have suspected something fishy, but I really doubt anyone really really believed that something like this has been going on for a few years.

First of all , Italy is one of the countries with the highest number of phone interceptions. That said, these conversation are a damn serious thing, they aren't a media report. They are inside public documents taken from magistrates and public prosecutors and put inside a folder for the Criminal Court of Torino..It seems there are no criminal elements, but surely sportive ones...

Let's make an example: if a player take some legal substance, which is banned from sportive authorities as doping, it doesn't involve criminal allegation, but surely sportive one.

Originally Posted by The-Fan

I see Toni here is under heavy fire...
Tell me Toni, were u sent by Moggi here, to do some PR for Juve?
What'a stupid arguement this guy started here... it's like to go to jews forum and try to convince them that Hitler was good and that it's their fault in the first place...
I mean this guy is unbelievable, can he be banned please??? He annoys me...

On the contrary FAN. Tony merely is bringing a broader speculation in this scandal. If there is a conspiracy, I am totally in the belief that it not only involves one club in Serie A. After all there have been so many speculation that Siena and/or a number of clubs are supposedly in Juve's pocket coming from fans of AC MILAN. Quite a confident boast. Yet we conveniently disregard the possibility that Club Milan is not involved in scandal.
Before you start calling his argument stupid, be mindful of the number of stupid arguments towards a conspiracy as there have been endless posts of this going on for a while. Keep in mind he didnt create this thread either. He didnt start this argument, some Milan fan did.

Originally Posted by Giovanni

Let's make an example: if a player take some legal substance, which is banned from sportive authorities as doping, it doesn't involve criminal allegation, but surely sportive one.

Now dont get mad at me Gio. I just figured that there be a minor correction to this example:

"If a player takes some legal substance, which is banned from sportive entities as "doping", in doesnt involve a criminal violation, but surely a sportive one."

Does this sound better perhaps Counsel?

Originally Posted by Kui

Now dont get mad at me Gio. I just figured that there be a minor correction to this example:

"If a player takes some legal substance, which is banned from sportive entities as "doping", in doesnt involve a criminal violation, but surely a sportive one."

Does this sound better perhaps Counsel?

not at all, thank you, i attended a class of Criminal Law and Contractual Law English but it was very basic and i often mistake

Originally Posted by The-Fan

I see Toni here is under heavy fire...
Tell me Toni, were u sent by Moggi here, to do some PR for Juve?
What'a stupid arguement this guy started here... it's like to go to jews forum and try to convince them that Hitler was good and that it's their fault in the first place...
I mean this guy is unbelievable, can he be banned please??? He annoys me...

Talking to yourself again, jerk?

If justice is the same for everyone, then GOBBI IN B. They can put their 29 scudettos in thier dirty a$$es. WTF??? 29 scudettos and 2 Champions leagues (1 with a stolen penalty 1 with doping) With all respect Notthingham Forest have a better track record.

Originally Posted by The-Fan

I see Toni here is under heavy fire...
Tell me Toni, were u sent by Moggi here, to do some PR for Juve?
What'a stupid arguement this guy started here... it's like to go to jews forum and try to convince them that Hitler was good and that it's their fault in the first place...
I mean this guy is unbelievable, can he be banned please??? He annoys me...

well, i do think clubs and players do read our posts. our admins must be knowing that. Do they, reza and debs?

abt banning toni, let him be here so that we can vent our frustrations on him. He will give us an outsiders view of our club which is very important!

Originally Posted by rahul.acm

well, i do think clubs and players do read our posts. our admins must be knowing that. Do they, reza and debs?

abt banning toni, let him be here so that we can vent our frustrations on him. He will give us an outsiders view of our club which is very important!

First of all, respect to Kui. Great fan of his club and yet always can see the big picture ( although i still find it hard to believe that Inter are behind this, but then again, it's possibile).

Rahul, heh, no need to be frustrated, and if you are, i don't mind if i'm the target where you can shoot your frustrations ( as long it doesn't involve my mother and daughter ).
Again guys, i don't like Milan, i will lie if i say otherwise, but i have a huge respect for the club, for the players, the achievments and the family atmposphere which can not be found in any other club. And i can't be caracterized as a neutral when Milan is involved, because Milan is the only club that threatens my club. But i believe that sometimes ( as Rahul said) my view on things where Milan is involved can be more objective than yours, and i believe it will help this site become even bigger than it is now.
Some of you will say : Go to hell we don't need you. What are you doing here?
Honestly , i don't know what the hell i'm doing here. Once, i came here to see what Milan fans think about the Milan-Juve match. I liked some posts, i continued visiting you and i became addicted of this site ! Incredibile what can internet do to people !

About Moggi and Juve scandal : As Kui said, i think there are few guys who have clubs as big as Juve, who are thinking this way at the moment : If he falls i will fall with him. I can't let him fall................
the rest will be history. Milan and Inter fans will have a reason for not winning the Scudetto. Juve fans will be happy for winning the Scudetto, and still, ashamed of this scandal, and all the others in the world won't even care.

Oh, and Sach22, give me a chance man. You can't always attack those who don't share your opinion. You will never be respected if you do that.

Originally Posted by The-Fan

I see Toni here is under heavy fire...
Tell me Toni, were u sent by Moggi here, to do some PR for Juve?
What'a stupid arguement this guy started here... it's like to go to jews forum and try to convince them that Hitler was good and that it's their fault in the first place...
I mean this guy is unbelievable, can he be banned please??? He annoys me...

I can only second what Kui already said.
And we can't ban a meber just because he supports a rival club and we don't like his ideas - Tony, btw is a pretty logical guy and if we don't agree on many things, it's mostly because he is as biased as anyone else here is. For that matter, his arguments may not be something we like but aren't stupid.
To ban someone just because he's another club's supporter is something you could encounter on Inter forums full of few decent people and a whole bunch of loosers.
Also, with posts like this you only give Ukranian_CA, and others, reason to suspect that you are indeed that superhero-of-a-poster Sash

so Moggi hit back today finally, what do you guys thinK?

The Juventus manager defended the Bianconeri and himself during a press conference early this afternoon.

Antonio Giraudo gave his version of the facts regarding the wiretaps scandal involving himself and Luciano Moggi which has tainted the Juventus image in the past two days.

“We were not even informed about the investigation against us which had been going on for many months. And we only learnt about it through the media, after being approached for a long time to those who committed crimes: it’s an incredible violation of the fundamental rights of the citizens.

“I read that we remained in silence for fear. It’s not true. For seven years we have been insulted in all of the Italian stadiums for a trial which the judgement disintegrated the infamous accusations, but evidently in Italy this is useless.”

Just before Giraudo’s press conference, Luciano Moggi commented the current situation.

“It’s all a joke. You should ask yourself why they did it on the even of a well-deserved Scudetto.”

source: www.goal.com

New conversations were publisher, something involving Sampdoria-Juve match from last season,also , Moggi was talking about "saving" Trefolonni,Dondarini....and after Bologna-milan game when milan won 2-1 and Messina was in charge, for him he said " Messina goes down! " I dont have whole canversation,but I'll post it when I get it. Lets just wait and see, but most damage that can be done is some minor suspension for refs,money suspension for juve and maybe moggi. nothing more will happen.

Well, there is hardly anything to say as there is nothing surprising in his response - the best defence for criminals is to describe themselves as the victims ... violated rights, blah, blah, blah.
As for the well deserved scudetto, yeah right, given the obnoxious number of games Juve got blatantly helped by the refs last year, that was hardly a well deserved title. In all honesty, this year they've got much less controversial calls in their favor but last year, it was just insultingly evident that the championship had been decided before it even began.
What I read today, is that Juve and the Agnieli family have had it enough with Moggi and Giraudo and will kick them out in an attempt to save Juve's name, at least to some extent that is. This was all over the news today.

Originally Posted by Tony 29

............Rahul, heh, no need to be frustrated, and if you are, i don't mind if i'm the target where you can shoot your frustrations ( as long it doesn't involve my mother and daughter ).
Again guys, i don't like Milan, i will lie if i say otherwise, but i have a huge respect for the club, for the players, the achievments and the family atmposphere which can not be found in any other club. And i can't be caracterized as a neutral when Milan is involved, because Milan is the only club that threatens my club. But i believe that sometimes ( as Rahul said) my view on things where Milan is involved can be more objective than yours, and i believe it will help this site become even bigger than it is now.
Some of you will say : Go to hell we don't need you. What are you doing here?
Honestly , i don't know what the hell i'm doing here. Once, i came here to see what Milan fans think about the Milan-Juve match. I liked some posts, i continued visiting you and i became addicted of this site ! Incredibile what can internet do to people !

About Moggi and Juve scandal : As Kui said, i think there are few guys who have clubs as big as Juve, who are thinking this way at the moment : If he falls i will fall with him. I can't let him fall................
the rest will be history. Milan and Inter fans will have a reason for not winning the Scudetto. Juve fans will be happy for winning the Scudetto, and still, ashamed of this scandal, and all the others in the world won't even care.

Oh, and Sach22, give me a chance man. You can't always attack those who don't share your opinion. You will never be respected if you do that.

for starters, what the hell do i even know abt ur family? then how in the world do they even come in the picture

then, u hate milan fine and u like all the stuff u mentioned, but i can't see anything else in milan either so what is it that u hate.

yea this is indeed the best forum for milan considering the quality of posts, it does have biased posters too but its all covered up by our gr8 members.

abt juve scandal. everybody suspected that juve were feeding the refs and to prove it these conversations were recorded. other than that we have the best fans too who will be the happiest fans even if we don't win anything. we are proud of players no matter how old they are. they don't have bust ups with each other the way ur players do. its good that the truth has finally started to emerge

the reason why sash was hated and banned because he use to abuse ppl and not because of difference in opinions. one day he went hyper and abused ppl on the basis of religion like nuts, then tell me why he will be respected?

Originally Posted by Jeff

“I read that we remained in silence for fear. It’s not true. For seven years we have been insulted in all of the Italian stadiums for a trial which the judgement disintegrated the infamous accusations, but evidently in Italy this is useless.”

Just before Giraudo’s press conference, Luciano Moggi commented the current situation.

“It’s all a joke. You should ask yourself why they did it on the even of a well-deserved Scudetto.”

source: www.goal.com

Exactly what i would have said if i was in their position. They are both guilty but they will never admit it.
One thing i really don't get is : these conversations were in August/September 2004, almost 2 years ago. So, they ( whoever they are) have these for 2 years, they finished the investigations this March, and still they put them in public at the most perfect moment ( perfect for someone , and by someone i don't mean Juve, Lecce or Fidelis Andrea).
And if they have the conversations from 2 years ago, why they don't have ( or didn't give us) the conversations from August 2005, or January 2006 ?
My opinion: If they have ( whoever they are) more conversations they are eather keeping them for court , or they are hiding them and will never give them in public or on court ( if this is the case, ask yourselves WHY?).
Or, they have more conversations ( or all of them) and from all those conversations, the ones they gave us are the most suspicious ones. So, the best thing they have from Moggi in last 2 years is his conversation with the UEFA official where he's ASKING him to tell him who will be the ref on his next game, and few more conversations where Moggi is asking for a specific ref in some friendlies.

Like i said, it's all fog and dust, and all of this is ment to put some pressure on Juve before the last 2 rounds. By whom ? I have absolutely no idea. Maybe the Media, maybe even Inter as Kui suggested, or maybe by someone who is trying to save another bad season.

Originally Posted by Zlatanov

As for the well deserved scudetto, yeah right, given the obnoxious number of games Juve got blatantly helped by the refs last year, that was hardly a well deserved title.
....but last year, it was just insultingly evident that the championship had been decided before it even began

Maybe you're right, but i'm not sure if the championship was decided even before it began, because Milan had a match ball at San Siro and they lost it. You can even say that Juve didn't win the Scudetto, but Milan lost it !

Originally Posted by rahul.acm

u hate milan

Hate is a strong word. I don't hate anyone. I don't like Milan is what i've said and what i ment.

Originally Posted by rahul.acm

we have the best fans too who will be the happiest fans even if we don't win anything. we are proud of players

hehe, that's the first reason why i was visiting this site and why i've joined here. I don't know about all Milan fans, but i can give a credit to MM fans for being devoted and for loving their team no matter what ( well, at least 70% of them)
If you ever visit juventuz.com, you'll see that 90% of the posts are the same ( cRapello and Zlatan are lovers, F..k you cRapello, Zlatan kill yourself, i love Juve only because of DelPiero) etc. , and then the same people, after Juve wins a match, have only honey words for the team, for the tactics and so on.
With the exception of the girl ( i think it's a girl, if not sorry) who always attacks Gila,and the man with 1000 faces who loves Milan only because of Sheva, everybody here loves Milan no matter what and You never attack your players as members in juventuz.com or in forza-inter.com do !

Originally Posted by Tony 29

If you ever visit juventuz.com, you'll see that 90% of the posts are the same ( cRapello and Zlatan are lovers, F..k you cRapello, Zlatan kill yourself, i love Juve only because of DelPiero) etc. , and then the same people, after Juve wins a match, have only honey words for the team, for the tactics and so on.
With the exception of the girl ( i think it's a girl, if not sorry) who always attacks Gila,and the man with 1000 faces who loves Milan only because of Sheva, everybody here loves Milan no matter what and You never attack your players as members in juventuz.com or in forza-inter.com do !

wow, Egoitska (yeah, she's a girl) and the infamous Sash have become very well known characters... I am glad to know you've followed all threads closely to identify who is who, and who says what...

and yes, we've tried to remain calm even in difficult times, like losing to small teams, or being eliminated from the UCL...

things like those that happened to Inter players at Malpensa airport after they lost to Villareal, should never happen...

every team's fans have signatures like "with my team for life", "always in my heart", "in the good and the bad"... and then when they lose, they start insulting everyone...

we should be proud of the ability of being critic when necesary, and being cheerful when deserved... but always seeing the big picture...

BTW, Tony 29, as said before, I am glad you are part of this forum, even if you are a Juve fan... actually we have like 3 or 4 Juventini now, all good members even if the others haven't posted in a while... we're still to find a good Interista ...