Cigarettes: Which brand do you smoke?

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

If you smoke an average of a cigarette a day you cannot really call yourself a smoker and I know that sometimes people enjoy smoking a cigarette while having a drink

Indeed my very point

however IMO one cigarette per day is too much to call yer self a non-smoker

Originally Posted by Kui

So if we talk about banning cigarettes, we sure as heck need to ban a whole sh!t load of other things too. Still I guess it is only and ONLY the smoker who is the problem in society. I like to see it happen! Dare you all non-smokers to believe in this. Watch the economy go to **** and your welfare govt get a shortfall of cash which some of you are dependent on getting your free medical coverage and college tuition!

I don't believe that if all the people stops smoking there will be a rebus in the government finance.

May be in the first couple of years there will be a debit, but on the long run not anymore.
For me its more like that the govt will finish with credit if people stops smoking.

You have to count the tax duty paid on tobacco which is a revinue to the govt, and on the other side all the days lost from work due to sickness related to smoking (passive smoking included). If the lost days will become productive are also a revinue to the govt. And the money paid by govt. on health treatments of smoking related cases. In Malta people don't pay (directly) for the public hospital treatments and surgeries.

So while it is true that the govt. will loose the tax duty, he will spend less on health and gather more money because of more productive days.

Originally Posted by Kui

I'm not justifying smoking next to another person as a right. What I am saying is that besides this, how do you equivocate someone driving next to me with a potentially deadly tool such as a vehicle being ok???? Or for that matter me crossing the street and someone in his or her vehicle spewing carcinogens in the air that I breath??? So you may think it falls flat. Obviously there is hypocracy going on because now we accept some lifestyle choices and yet deny other lifestyles.
So if we talk about banning cigarettes, we sure as heck need to ban a whole sh!t load of other things too. Still I guess it is only and ONLY the smoker who is the problem in society. I like to see it happen! Dare you all non-smokers to believe in this. Watch the economy go to **** and your welfare govt get a shortfall of cash which some of you are dependent on getting your free medical coverage and college tuition!

your argument is not well thought out. people are willing to accept the evils of cars, because of the potential uses of a car and the traffic system. yes it can be improved by building more efficient highways and improving the transit system but in general society accepts the evils of the traffic system because it is useful in many ways.

if YOU smoke, it is not beneficial to society at all. In fact, I will not see the brighter side of YOU smoking even though it harms me via secondary smoke. I won't even care is smoking is beneficial to the economy or student loans if i can't breathe without hacking and have no stamina to do the things i love.

So if I were to buy into your theory here, I would say I am really really glad there are smokers out there who are willing to sacrifice their lungs and spend cash for the rest of us, so that we can relax in the lap of medical coverage and college tuition loans. Just please sacrifice your lungs in the privacy of your own homes and don't blow the smoke in my face - that is all I ask.

btw, equating smoking to providing healthcare is ridiculous. the healthcare system spends millions treating smokers diseases. in canada, they are contemplating charging extra taxes for smokers to cover THEIR OWN health care bills. Please don't tax the non-smoker to cure your self-inflicted pain.

Originally Posted by rae

however IMO one cigarette per day is too much to call yer self a non-smoker

I don't really care what I am called, I smoke 5-7 cigarettes once a week, enjoy it and have no cravings for them other days of the week.

PS. Banning smoking alltogether would be a sure recipe for a new wave of criminal synicates moonlighting cigarettes. Hardly a prospect to look forward to

My sister's boyfriend recently did a contract IT job for Philip-Morris Inc. in Richmond, VA (USA) and, apparently, all the workers there get one free pack of cigarettes per day and can smoke in their work areas. I told my boss this (he is a pack a day smoker) and he was on the phone to Virginia looking for a new management job!

Originally Posted by RIO

My sister's boyfriend recently did a contract IT job for Philip-Morris Inc. in Richmond, VA (USA) and, apparently, all the workers there get one free pack of cigarettes per day and can smoke in their work areas. I told my boss this (he is a pack a day smoker) and he was on the phone to Virginia looking for a new management job!

Well then, if my plans of quitting go up in smoke I'll know where to go to find solidarity

It would be seriously cool to get a job a Philip-Morris, then quit smoking referring to it as a "filthy habit" and encourage co-workers to join your quest for a smoke-free environment. I wonder how long you would last

Nadir. I am not advocating blowing smoke in your face. My point is that we in society have a number of vices. SMoking is not just an individual problem, it is a societal problem. Asking people to give up smoking is like asking people to give up there cars.... it isnt going to happen.
Some of you folks obviously dont understand the economic side of things or appriciate the economics of the tobacco industry. I have seen high-minded law makers vehemently go after the industry only later to shut up because when they took a look at revenue from taxtion of tobacco, they understood clearly where their power lay. That is the power to appropriate government income. Without such income, such ability to legislate fiscally is drastically reduced. This isnt greed but political reality. With 70% of tobacco purchases going to the government through taxation, doing the math a person smoking one pack a day for 365 1/4 days a year multiplied by the billions of smokers in the world, dont insult me about the economy not suffering. This isnt money to fvck around with for any govt who has bills to pay across the board for EVERYONE. So from an economical point... I will have to sadly say to all of you that yes the smoker does help out in society in more ways than you know... even if the habit is vile.
Nadir people die of a lot of things and besides a smoker already pays twice the tax as a non-smoker. 1. through the purchase of tobacco
2. in the United States most medical plans are through personal and private sectors.

Why should smokers pay extra??? The non-smoking campaigners are cooking the numbers so badly I can only laugh at the stupidity of it. I tell you what... why not use all that money they got from taxing tobacco solely for smokers health problems??? It is not good manners to blow smoke in your face Nadir... This I agree. But neither is it good manners for the elected govt to make decades of profit from this and wipe their hands clean of this. When I mean elected govt, I am also including all citizens because evryone has had some benefit from moneys collected from tobacco. If it was only the non-smoker who paid taxes...you win I have no argument! This is why I say dont expect any govt to get serious about "CARING" about the smokers. The only thing those who dont smoke care about is themselves(no problem with that!) and more money from smokers (which has been going on for over 100yrs now).
This is nothing more than a "shake down" that has happen time and again. The down right truth about this is not to care about or to get a smoker to quit, but to make his habit more expensive with full knowledge that an such a chemical is way more addictive than heroin and in no way will a smoker quit. Yet the income.... no problem we'll just turn a blind eye in this area.
Only when I see some serious programs that society has to HELP smokers quit, than by all means this moral argument will totally be against me. But if society through their elected govt has no problems making very good income of off of it, then evryone is part of the problem. Not just smokers.

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

I don't believe that if all the people stops smoking there will be a rebus in the government finance.

May be in the first couple of years there will be a debit, but on the long run not anymore.
For me its more like that the govt will finish with credit if people stops smoking.

You have to count the tax duty paid on tobacco which is a revinue to the govt, and on the other side all the days lost from work due to sickness related to smoking (passive smoking included). If the lost days will become productive are also a revinue to the govt. And the money paid by govt. on health treatments of smoking related cases. In Malta people don't pay (directly) for the public hospital treatments and surgeries.

So while it is true that the govt. will loose the tax duty, he will spend less on health and gather more money because of more productive days.

Charlie... I can guratee you that in any govt laws... the very first things that were taxed were 1. property 2. Liquor and 3. Tobacco
Dont insult me by saying that the loss of tobacco revenue will not seriously hurt a states economy when it is historically one of the very first things to be taxed.

Originally Posted by Kui

Charlie... I can guratee you that in any govt laws... the very first things that were taxed were 1. property 2. Liquor and 3. Tobacco
Dont insult me by saying that the loss of tobacco revenue will not seriously hurt a states economy when it is historically one of the very first things to be taxed.

I am talking about Malta.
And all I want to tell you is that the Tax duty is not 100 % profit, because you have to subtract the amount of the lost of work due to sickleave related to smoking and health treatments.
Here the govt. pays for the public health. And yes I believe that on the long run the positive benefits from not smoking will be more than the tax duty.

Keep in mind that if people don't smoke they will have more money in their pockets. This mean more money to spend on other things, and another part of these money will be gathered by the govt from VAT, and another part is gathered from Income tax.

This is the way how I'll see it.


and don't guarantee any Laws because we don't have tax on property (At least till now):

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

I am talking about Malta.
And all I want to tell you is that the Tax duty is not 100 % profit, because you have to subtract the amount of the lost of work due to sickleave related to smoking and health treatments.
Here the govt. pays for the public health. And yes I believe that on the long run the positive benefits from not smoking will be more than the tax duty.

Keep in mind that if people don't smoke they will have more money in their pockets. This mean more money to spend on other things, and another part of these money will be gathered by the govt from VAT, and another part is gathered from Income tax.

This is the way how I'll see it.


and don't guarantee any Laws because we don't have tax on property (At least till now):

most of u smoke shame on those of u who do can u not read smoking kills

Originally Posted by Kui

Why should smokers pay extra??? The non-smoking campaigners are cooking the numbers so badly I can only laugh at the stupidity of it. I tell you what... why not use all that money they got from taxing tobacco solely for smokers health problems???

Why should non-smokers pay for smokers health problems? And yes, they do use the money from taxing tobacco towards smokers health problems.

nobody said society is free or problems except for smoking lol. but let's just say i buy your argument - and in that case I AM GLAD people smoke. It provides more money for all the rest of us YAY. I won't complain if it means better health care, better schools - all cus of tobaco. go team tobacco! and smokers - i tip my hat to you - you are giving up your LIVES so that all of us can have better healthcare, better tuition, better roads, better everything. We need to erect a giant cigarette in your honour smokers. Thank you thank you thank you - but again, please don't smoke in my presence.

Originally Posted by Kui

Nadir people die of a lot of things and besides a smoker already pays twice the tax as a non-smoker. 1. through the purchase of tobacco
2. in the United States most medical plans are through personal and private sectors.

not everyone lives in the US lol.

again, i don't really care if there are smokers in the world. but i am not a big fan of the fact that it affected my health and there are non-smokers dying because of smoker's habits. whatever spin you put on how great it is for the economy, i don't care. i would rather breathe.

Originally Posted by Nadir

Why should non-smokers pay for smokers health problems? And yes, they do use the money from taxing tobacco towards smokers health problems.

nobody said society is free or problems except for smoking lol. but let's just say i buy your argument - and in that case I AM GLAD people smoke. It provides more money for all the rest of us YAY. I won't complain if it means better health care, better schools - all cus of tobaco. go team tobacco! and smokers - i tip my hat to you - you are giving up your LIVES so that all of us can have better healthcare, better tuition, better roads, better everything. We need to erect a giant cigarette in your honour smokers. Thank you thank you thank you - but again, please don't smoke in my presence.

do u smoke nadir r u muslim

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

I am talking about Malta.
And all I want to tell you is that the Tax duty is not 100 % profit, because you have to subtract the amount of the lost of work due to sickleave related to smoking and health treatments.

Across the board healthcare is is an expensive appropriation for any government whether you smoke or not. People go on sickleave for many reasons besides smoking. I guess in Malta it is only smokers who rack up the medical bills.

Here the govt. pays for the public health. And yes I believe that on the long run the positive benefits from not smoking will be more than the tax duty.

The negative is a loss of huge revenue, which let me gurantee you Charlie, your govt will not pass up on.

Keep in mind that if people don't smoke they will have more money in their pockets.

I believe this actually. Somking is an expensive habit. Yet again a major profiteer from smokers have been govts. This is like I said in an earlier post political and economical reality.

This mean more money to spend on other things, and another part of these money will be gathered by the govt from VAT, and another part is gathered from Income tax.

If this were true... we would have seen it already.