Winter Mercato

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

There's nothing wrong with loaning players to other clubs, the majority of times there is a clause in the loan agreement that stops the player playing against the club that owns him.

But even if there are such clauses, in some cases it makes no difference.
If all those players from Juve who were loaned to Siena weren't allowed to play vs Juve , then Siena would have found themselves with half their team missing (and most of them were Siena's best players) and they'd have lost anyway.

It's really strange and suspicious when some team loans 4 or more of it's players to a certain team.

But that's Siena's problem, not Juve's. If Siena are foolish enough to get alot of loaned players from one club then they are taking the risk of losing all those players when they play Juventus.

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

But that's Siena's problem, not Juve's. If Siena are foolish enough to get alot of loaned players from one club then they are taking the risk of losing all those players when they play Juventus.

I agree Jim, but you're forgetting one very important thing : Unlike in EPL, 95% of the money go to 4-5 teams in Italy.
Siena is in no position, economically, to buy 11 solid players that will secure their serie A status. If they don't take players on loan and if they must buy all their players then they will find themselves with a bunch of below-average players that will surely take them to serie B.
As for why were they foolish enough to loan so many players from one team, in this case Juve...... it's because Juve owned so many players and only Juve and Milan were in position to loan players and still be competitive. The others didn't have players to loan. Wanted or not, smaller teams were forced to do business with Juve or Milan. That's why there were accusations that we own most of the smaller teams.

Edit: And now, when we look at Empoli's roster we must ask ourselves : Did Calciopoli change anything ?

http://goal.com/en/articolo.aspx?contenutoid=396617

150mill.. Isn't that less than what we are offering? And if ronaldinho were to ever leave barca its only to milan, and if Ronaldinho went up for sale Chelski would be stupid to compete with milan for him, it's obvious we'd get him first in means of cash and ronaldinho actually wanting to come.. Milan is so smart if next year they buy all the AMAZING players that teams payed bucket loads of money for after a poor season and who want out and then we make them into amazing again for example, let's say robben,ronaldinho,tevez, then we can work something out like we did with ronaldo and bring them back

Originally Posted by Kaka--7thUCL

http://goal.com/en/articolo.aspx?contenutoid=396617

150mill.. Isn't that less than what we are offering? And if ronaldinho were to ever leave barca its only to milan, and if Ronaldinho went up for sale Chelski would be stupid to compete with milan for him, it's obvious we'd get him first in means of cash and ronaldinho actually wanting to come.. Milan is so smart if next year they buy all the AMAZING players that teams payed bucket loads of money for after a poor season and who want out and then we make them into amazing again for example, let's say robben,ronaldinho,tevez, then we can work something out like we did with ronaldo and bring them back

we were offering 100 mil altogether, so 150>>>100 ... and puhhh, there goes that bubble

gah. > But milan would always offer more if he went up for sale..i think

The super cup will probably postponed because of Puerta since the game between AEK f...ing Athens will be held on Monday the 3rd of September....

ugh..postponing our victory. Terrible though that puerta died

Originally Posted by Giorgos

The super cup will probably postponed because of Puerta since the game between AEK f...ing Athens will be held on Monday the 3rd of September....

it's been decided already - the supercup game will be played as scheduled, this Friday.
Only the AEK game was postponed for Monday.

Originally Posted by Kaka--7thUCL

gah. > But milan would always offer more if he went up for sale..i think

in a perfect world where moneys grow on trees, I am sure they would have done so

Tony, i take your points but there is always the possibility of getting in loaned players from abroad. There is no reason to be completely insular and only look in Italy for loaned players. Lots of clubs worldwide go through the same problems Empoli does and they survive, there are always alternatives. So for me, personally, i stick by my stance that if they look to so few clubs for so many players, they have to be accepting of the circumstances when they come to face those particular clubs.

I also think Chelsea would offer more money for Ronaldinho than we would if it came down to a bidding competition. But it doesn't matter as he's not going to move there just like Adriano isn't going to move to Man City.

Not to sound heartless, but there's already a thread about the Super Cup and another one about Puerta. We don't really need it to take over every thread.

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

Tony, i take your points but there is always the possibility of getting in loaned players from abroad. There is no reason to be completely insular and only look in Italy for loaned players. Lots of clubs worldwide go through the same problems Empoli does and they survive, there are always alternatives. So for me, personally, i stick by my stance that if they look to so few clubs for so many players, they have to be accepting of the circumstances when they come to face those particular clubs.

I also think Chelsea would offer more money for Ronaldinho than we would if it came down to a bidding competition. But it doesn't matter as he's not going to move there just like Adriano isn't going to move to Man City.

not many players would leave for another championship to go on loan to ... Empoli ... if its a full-ownership move, the chances go up but not a loan move unless they are really desperate.
and for most of those who would agree to a loan move (mostly African and SA players as they would be more likely to be lured by the financial conditions), there is the non-EU limit problem.

Also, just like in Italy, in the other big(-ger) European championships you would again have a similar situation where the biggest clubs have the most players to loan out but those clybs would rather keep those players within the same championship so that they get used playing in the league, not somewhere else, with the perspective of those players coming back one day.
And all in all, when a club gets a player on loan, they prefer local players who are familiar with the mentality and mechanics of that particular championship - not many foreigners come on loan to Spanish, Italian, German or clubs from any of the more significant championships in Europe.

As for those "many clubs" you mentioned, they are indeed in the same boat problem-wise and survival-wise - they either get players from their youth teams or fill up their squads from the big-fish clubs of that league ... its same story everywhere, as the law is the same - law of the jungle

Of course there are players who would accept a loan move to Empoli. If not then anything lower than mid-table teams in the highest division would be screwed. We know that's not the case as there are loan moves all over the place in all divisions. Of course it would be a little more difficult to find these players, but they'd be there, Empoli scouts would just need to look harder.

I'm sorry Zlat i found your last post really confusing, i'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

Of course there are players who would accept a loan move to Empoli. If not then anything lower than mid-table teams in the highest division would be screwed. We know that's not the case as there are loan moves all over the place in all divisions. Of course it would be a little more difficult to find these players, but they'd be there, Empoli scouts would just need to look harder.

I'm sorry Zlat i found your last post really confusing, i'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me

disagreeing, obviously ... how on earth could you think that I'd ever agree with you, on anything




My main point was that teams that would be able to have enough players to loan out - smaller teams would not be able to sustain a base of players large enough so that they have "extra" for loaning out to other teams - would prefer to send those players on loan to a club from the same championship.

At the same time, clubs that take players on loan, would prefer local players as they know the championship well and carry the "local" mentality too ... getting a foreigner involves a certain period of "acclimatization" - language barrier, different culture, different everything - and by the time the player gets used to his new environment, the loan period is over

To see what I am trying to say is just ask yourself how often do you see an EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga or whatever club take on loan players from other championships ... not very often, right ... and in the few cases it happens, it involves special circumstances - like Baptista to Arsenal in exchange for Reyes to Real M, or a beyond-his-best former star player, who a team like Empoli can afford only on loan (Guardiola to Brescia) and in that case it was actually Barca who were trying to get rid of him anyway they could.

regarding Adriano, it looks like Inter tried to pass him to Arsenal but Wenger didn't need a player with his characteristics i.e. 1-D target shooting

The Frenchman just went up a notch in my book - now he's at notch 1

link:
http://www.calciomercato.com/index.php?c=23&a=52671