Winter Mercato 2011

Originally Posted by mzk57

Diego Milito as long term replacement for Inzaghi would be a master buy. Our beloved Inzaghi was a famous Juventus player, so no harm in thinking about a famous Inter player.

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Off topic
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Fifa & Ballon Dor have proved that they nothing but a rich-organization-JOKE

Best 3 players of the past season: Messi, Xavi & Iniesta. Thank God they didn't pick Pedro & Bushquets

That's how it is mate. Their picks were always debatable. To everyone SANE in this world who have watched football (especially CL) last year, Sneijder and Milito were two best players last season - Sneijder for leading his team to CL title and Milito for scoring most of the goals in the process.

But the formula for the picks is simple - if Barcelona or Real or Manchester reach semi-finals at least, you can bet Ballon D'Or goes to one of their players. The players like Milito and Sneijder can't win Golden Ball just like Pirlo couldn't won WC 2006 best player award, because guess what Zidane was there and he was ****.y for most of the time, but played fantastic quarter finals.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

6 months ago I would have agreed, but right now Thiago is making major progress. He's becoming the defensive leader we want and his positioning has improved a lot. Really, I can see him being the great defender of this generation.

Fair enough...

Just to make it more clear for others, I wasn´t down playing T. Silva in my post. My point about David becoming the better player in the future, relies on the fact at 23yo David is a much better CB than T. Silva was at the same age.

Plus, and just for curiosity(I don´t know if you guys knows about it), but David Luiz only started to play as CB 6 months before his departure to Benfica. Yep, he only had 6 months of experience at the CB position before goes to Europe and become a starter... At 19 years old. At the right environment, this guy could turn into the best, too.

Regarding T.Silva actual level, thats was the way he was playing at Fluminense when we bought him, and imo no one is playing better than him at the moment. He´s really a amazing defender and a great person... I´m really glad for him!

ya d luiz is a must eventually- just have to make one more point.. inter is really disgracing italy in all competitions!

Originally Posted by Samaldinho

I would disagree with the characterization that there is a lack of talent with Italian youth. I think the issue is less about the quality that Italian youth teams are producing, and more so to do with the fact that Italian clubs are actually preventing the immense talent that they do have from developing properly.

I respect your points, Salmadinho...

But if they(players) were really good, they would have cracked first team play. Btw, before I write more here, it´s good to remember that very few kids from the youth teams "make it" to the next level. Even in Brazil where teams invest zillions of money in amazing youth complex, very few turn into very good players, or even become a good backup. So, I really disagree with the way people throw a lot of names here saying they are "Milan level" just because they are Italians. Thats not the real world(imo).

Both Italian clubs and the NT are in a tough position. A great generation of players are closing out their careers. Totti, Del Piero, Nesta, Cannavaro, Grosso, Gattuso, Camoranesi, etc. These players were pillars of their clubs team and the success of the NT. In order to continue to compete, clubs were willing to bring in foreigners to help transition these older players out. Many of the clubs did not allow for the youngsters to properly develop, or they would sell them off to smaller clubs after growing frustrated with them. Some of these players failed to live up to their potential, Gilardino is an example.

Maybe I´m wrong, but I think Germany brings much more foreigners to their big clubs than Italy, and that didn´t prevent them to develope great young talent to NT. Imo to put the blame on foreigners is cheap and will not solve the problem. If thats was the real problem, Portugal would not have developed talent. Have you ever seen the amount of foreigners on the Portuguese League?!? They have much more foreigners than Italy... It´s not even close.

In Spain, with 2 years a foreigner can get a Spanish passport(unlike Italy) and don´t count as a foreigner. They have a lot of no Spanish players on their teams and thats not prevent them to produce a lot of talent and become World Champions...

Do you think it´s coincidence that Spain since the early 90´s is fighting for titles in under-17 and under-20´s World Cups with Brazil, Argentine, Germany and some Africa NT´s and Italy not? Maybe I´m being unfair, but I watch a lot of youth World Cups, and can´t remember the last time I saw a Italy NT making a impact on those tournaments... And thats also can be said about England.

However, players like Cassano, Giovinco, Montolivo, are playing at clubs that they wouldn't be playing for if they were German or Spanish. The idea that Italian youth teams are not producing talent is not correct, the problem is that clubs are either mismanaging the talent or the fact that more and more Italian talent is being developed abroad.

Giuseppi Rossi, Macheda, Diego Contento, are but a few examples of players that came through because they were developed abroad.

Sorry, but Cassano and Giovinco had their chance and for different reasons, aren´t in a big club anymore. People are too soft if the player is Italian. Imo Gourcuf had less fair chances than Giovinco in a big Italian club, but I don´t see the same buzz about him. If you want to be a big club player, you need to produce, period. Big teams needs to win "yesterday", and there´s no space for the ones not delivering... at least outside of the bench.

In Brazil I saw a good example this season. A young player we were linked this season(Bernardo from Cruzeiro) played very good for Brazil youth NT and had a chance last season to play for Cruzeiro(big team here) first team. Despite being a great talent, he failed to make a impact. Cruzeiro was lacking a #10 badly last season and put their hopes in Bernardo. But like Giovinco, he didn´t help himself.

This season they loaned him to Goias(Rafael Toloi team) to develope, and purchased a veteran(Gilberto) and a foreigner(Montillo from Argentine) to battle for the #10 spot. Montillo made a splash and was chosen to Brasileirao 2010 first team. Bernardo had a very good Brasileirao playing for Goias(middle team relegated to Serie B this year and in the final of South America "Europe League") but will need to show much more to be a starter for Cruzeiro ahead of the foreigner(Montillo, an Argie) next year.

Giuliano also is playing out of position this season to make room for a foreigner (Another Argie, D´Alessandro) and Tinga at Internacional. After being the best player of Internacional last season in Brasileirao and shine in under-20 WC, he could have complained and asked to leave. He chose to stay, played(and won) Libertadores as a sub, and was the MVP of Internacional in the tournament comming of the bench. Thats the right mind set to be a big club player imo...

To make it short, imo Italy has much less problems with foreigners than others Countries that are producing better talent at the moment. Imo, they need to take a relly good look at what their coaches are doing in all levels... at least for me, it´s clear they aren´t producing the same level of players anymore. Not even GK´s and CB´s...

Originally Posted by MilanMikey

ya d luiz is a must eventually- just have to make one more point.. inter is really disgracing italy in all competitions!

Still remember the day I(and others) said Rafa Benitez was one of the best mercato purchase for us

Some guys called us crazy, but the great Rafa is not disapointing

Originally Posted by Brasileiro

I respect your points, Salmadinho...

But if they(players) were really good, they would have cracked first team play. Btw, before I write more here, it´s good to remember that very few kids from the youth teams "make it" to the next level. Even in Brazil where teams invest zillions of money in amazing youth complex, very few turn into very good players, or even become a good backup. So, I really disagree with the way people throw a lot of names here saying they are "Milan level" just because they are Italians. Thats not the real world(imo).

Maybe I´m wrong, but I think Germany brings much more foreigners to their big clubs than Italy, and that didn´t prevent them to develope great young talent to NT. Imo to put the blame on foreigners is cheap and will not solve the problem. If thats was the real problem, Portugal would not have developed talent. Have you ever seen the amount of foreigners on the Portuguese League?!? They have much more foreigners than Italy... It´s not even close.

In Spain, with 2 years a foreigner can get a Spanish passport(unlike Italy) and don´t count as a foreigner. They have a lot of no Spanish players on their teams and thats not prevent them to produce a lot of talent and become World Champions...

Do you think it´s coincidence that Spain since the early 90´s is fighting for titles in under-17 and under-20´s World Cups with Brazil, Argentine, Germany and some Africa NT´s and Italy not? Maybe I´m being unfair, but I watch a lot of youth World Cups, and can´t remember the last time I saw a Italy NT making a impact on those tournaments... And thats also can be said about England.

Sorry, but Cassano and Giovinco had their chance and for different reasons, aren´t in a big club anymore. People are too soft if the player is Italian. Imo Gourcuf had less fair chances than Giovinco in a big Italian club, but I don´t see the same buzz about him. If you want to be a big club player, you need to produce, period. Big teams needs to win "yesterday", and there´s no space for the ones not delivering... at least outside of the bench.

In Brazil I saw a good example this season. A young player we were linked this season(Bernardo from Cruzeiro) played very good for Brazil youth NT and had a chance last season to play for Cruzeiro(big team here) first team. Despite being a great talent, he failed to make a impact. Cruzeiro was lacking a #10 badly last season and put their hopes in Bernardo. But like Giovinco, he didn´t help himself.

This season they loaned him to Goias(Rafael Toloi team) to develope, and purchased a veteran(Gilberto) and a foreigner(Montillo from Argentine) to battle for the #10 spot. Montillo made a splash and was chosen to Brasileirao 2010 first team. Bernardo had a very good Brasileirao playing for Goias(middle team relegated to Serie B this year and in the final of South America "Europe League") but will need to show much more to be a starter for Cruzeiro ahead of the foreigner(Montillo, an Argie) next year.

Giuliano also is playing out of position this season to make room for a foreigner (Another Argie, D´Alessandro) and Tinga at Internacional. After being the best player of Internacional last season in Brasileirao and shine in under-20 WC, he could have complained and asked to leave. He chose to stay, played(and won) Libertadores as a sub, and was the MVP of Internacional in the tournament comming of the bench. Thats the right mind set to be a big club player imo...

To make it short, imo Italy has much less problems with foreigners than others Countries that are producing better talent at the moment. Imo, they need to take a relly good look at what their coaches are doing in all levels... at least for me, it´s clear they aren´t producing the same level of players anymore. Not even GK´s and CB´s...

Been a while since i've been here.....


Brasiliero you have an excellent point it's not number of foreigners. But what you are missing.... it is a development problem.

Look at Luca Cigarini. Promising CM, centerpeice of u21 side at 19, put impressive performances with a parma side that got relegated.

What happened to him? He moved to Napoli and was consistently on the bench for WORSE older italian players. Senatore system. Italian managers prefer to play a 30 year old who is 'tactically sound' than develop a 21 year old who has much higher upside. Where is he now? Getting consistent starts at Sevilla in spain... a better club...

Look back at italy's last good generation. It's success was predicated on MILAN and Jube mostly developing young raw talent. Sure there was Totti, Nesta, Buffon... rare world class talents who no coach in there right mind could bench. But what about Pirlo and Gattuso (IMO both were better than Cannavaro in world cup 2006). Both players came to milan raw and unfinished. Milan stuck with them and they became two of best in world.

(BTW Pirlo sturggled at Inter, what if milan didn't sell buy him and he went back to brescia or atalanta or something?)

And that brings another point, I truly believe if you want a world class nT your players have to play omn highest levels. Champions league etc. Look at Italy's 2010 team. Bunch of Genoa and Udinese players....

Now you can look at barcelona on the flip side. Again, Xavi is probably best CM in world today, but how many years was he not? Iniesta similarly. Or we can go with more contemporary examples of Pedro, Pique and Busquets. All had talent but very rough. I remembver when they started playing a lot I questioned it but they grew and grew. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN IN ITALY.

I'm not saying every kid in Italy has it. But I can tell you this, Palombo, Lazarri, Montolivo, Criscito all deserved chances at big clubs 3-4 years ago. Instead Milan preferred Oddo and Janku. Jube preferred players like Zebina, Poulsen, Sissoko, Zanetti

A quote from Pirlo sums it up. "In Italy it's harder for youngsters to get there chance because coaches have a shorter leash with them, when it should be the opposite. I had to go to brescia to prove myself, before Inter would recall me..." (something to that extent)


This does not mean every player will succeed. Of course they won't. But when they don't ever get a chance? How do you expect a national team with a player who had never played a champions league game to handle a knock out round game in a world cup?

David Luiz is great defender but Thiago Silva is the best for me. Sorry he is much better than Luiz...

Players like Cigarini, Montolivo couldnt progresses that much, Palombo is overrated for me,
good destroyer but nothing more nothing less. Lazzari? he progressed too late. The list goes on...italian should have better youth teams, inter is a good example for this, Fachetti project was the key for them. Santon, Balotelli, Krhin...Then Cristeg, Obi, Destro
,Donati, Fossati e.t.c.

Originally Posted by Brasileiro

Fair enough...

Just to make it more clear for others, I wasn´t down playing T. Silva in my post. My point about David becoming the better player in the future, relies on the fact at 23yo David is a much better CB than T. Silva was at the same age.

Plus, and just for curiosity(I don´t know if you guys knows about it), but David Luiz only started to play as CB 6 months before his departure to Benfica. Yep, he only had 6 months of experience at the CB position before goes to Europe and become a starter... At 19 years old. At the right environment, this guy could turn into the best, too.

Regarding T.Silva actual level, thats was the way he was playing at Fluminense when we bought him, and imo no one is playing better than him at the moment. He´s really a amazing defender and a great person... I´m really glad for him!

David Luiz for his age is a superb defender and should with Thiago be one of the top defenders of this generation. Personally, I think it's beneficial for us (and Brazil) to get him to partner Thiago, even moreso than getting Rannocchia who is a superb defender but also a player whose never had any relationship with Thiago before and would take longer to form a partnership with Thiago (on and off the pitch).

Originally Posted by abbeyleemaniac

Lazzari? he progressed too late

Has he really progressed too late? He broke through at Cagliari at around 23/24 years old, which is the similar to when Pirlo and Rino broke through at Milan. He's now 26 (I think) and if rumours are to be believed then there's a fair chance of us getting Lazzari next summer (Cagliari president has said he won't leave in January, but things could change in the summer). If he comes, I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up as a starter as he's playing well enough to and is also a player who fits Allegri's ideas of the game. He's at the right age to be able to give us a few great years and become a part of the Italy set up for the next Euros and World Cup.

He's not likely to become a legend or anything, but he could still make his mark in football. His biggest problem has been he's not broken through at a top club.

http://sport.virgilio.it/calcio/calc...vo-lamela.html


does anybody knows this guy? seems like awsome players

Originally Posted by Milano84

Been a while since i've been here.....


Brasiliero you have an excellent point it's not number of foreigners. But what you are missing.... it is a development problem.

Look at Luca Cigarini. Promising CM, centerpeice of u21 side at 19, put impressive performances with a parma side that got relegated.

What happened to him? He moved to Napoli and was consistently on the bench for WORSE older italian players. Senatore system. Italian managers prefer to play a 30 year old who is 'tactically sound' than develop a 21 year old who has much higher upside. Where is he now? Getting consistent starts at Sevilla in spain... a better club...

Look back at italy's last good generation. It's success was predicated on MILAN and Jube mostly developing young raw talent. Sure there was Totti, Nesta, Buffon... rare world class talents who no coach in there right mind could bench. But what about Pirlo and Gattuso (IMO both were better than Cannavaro in world cup 2006). Both players came to milan raw and unfinished. Milan stuck with them and they became two of best in world.

(BTW Pirlo sturggled at Inter, what if milan didn't sell buy him and he went back to brescia or atalanta or something?)

And that brings another point, I truly believe if you want a world class nT your players have to play omn highest levels. Champions league etc. Look at Italy's 2010 team. Bunch of Genoa and Udinese players....

Now you can look at barcelona on the flip side. Again, Xavi is probably best CM in world today, but how many years was he not? Iniesta similarly. Or we can go with more contemporary examples of Pedro, Pique and Busquets. All had talent but very rough. I remembver when they started playing a lot I questioned it but they grew and grew. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN IN ITALY.

I'm not saying every kid in Italy has it. But I can tell you this, Palombo, Lazarri, Montolivo, Criscito all deserved chances at big clubs 3-4 years ago. Instead Milan preferred Oddo and Janku. Jube preferred players like Zebina, Poulsen, Sissoko, Zanetti

A quote from Pirlo sums it up. "In Italy it's harder for youngsters to get there chance because coaches have a shorter leash with them, when it should be the opposite. I had to go to brescia to prove myself, before Inter would recall me..." (something to that extent)


This does not mean every player will succeed. Of course they won't. But when they don't ever get a chance? How do you expect a national team with a player who had never played a champions league game to handle a knock out round game in a world cup?

Brasileiro tell the situation in Italy that Italy for now are not producing talents at least like they used to. Players you mentioned above Palombo, Lazarri, Montolivo, Criscito are different with Pirlo, Gattuso regarding their impact to the small club they played for. No wonder they are still in their respective club or just moved to other similar level clubs. They still don't show that big clubs should get them.

You however made very good point that the players could shine sooner even they are not as talented as many Italian players before. I think the real problem here, beside the lack of trust from coaches of Italian clubs, is the final stage of youth competition. Germany and Spain even England have a final place for the young players to mature themselves before go to the first team, the B team or in England the reserve team. The B team play in real competition, not in a youth competition. They fight for continuously improvement of the level of competition they could play in. As far as I know the B team can play in first division (one level lower than Primera Division or Bundesliga) as highest level of competition they can reach (with assumption that the A club should be in higher level than the B team).

Players in the age of 20-23 can still play to improve their level of play since being a young player even with talent the players are to face though competition to be able to play in the first team since they lack of experience, something that really matters in nowadays football. In Italy the youth competition is only until U20, similar like in Germany and Spain (probably only until U19) but after Primavera competition (U20) or final stage of youth competition, the players have no place to continuously improve their play. They have to play in lower level league but still they have to face though competition to play due to their little experience.

Also, having such team (B team) our primvera players can play in the B team to prepare themselves to play as first team player either for Milan or at least for lesser club. The point is that when they are finally loaned by a Serie B club they play pretty regularly, not just sit on the bench for almost of the season.

Originally Posted by Kaka1899

its already been decided Zeekay look

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._6648226_n.jpg

Well its an absolute disgrace by Fifa & co. Sniejder alone was up against the deadly creative trio of Xavi, Iniesta & Messi last season & he won his battle over the two legs. Lets just face it, who else could do that? No one. Then he leads his not so strong looking side to the World Cup final & in the process beating the hot favorite Brazil. Thats enough to declare him the best of last season. Plus any one remember the two amazing goal scoring opportunities Sniejder made for Robben in the final? If it wasn't for the unreal misses of Robben, Sniejder would have ended up with a WC medal as well.

- Sniejder
- Messi
- Milito/Xavi/Forlan

although Robben was on hot form as well last season, its just too hard to call and either way names would be left out that could have been in.

Originally Posted by Milano84

Been a while since i've been here.....
Brasiliero you have an excellent point it's not number of foreigners. But what you are missing.... it is a development problem.

Look at Luca Cigarini. Promising CM, centerpeice of u21 side at 19, put impressive performances with a parma side that got relegated.

What happened to him? He moved to Napoli and was consistently on the bench for WORSE older italian players. Senatore system. Italian managers prefer to play a 30 year old who is 'tactically sound' than develop a 21 year old who has much higher upside. Where is he now? Getting consistent starts at Sevilla in spain... a better club..

Welcome back, Milano...

I´m not missing the development problem... I was just attacking the so called "foreigner" problem. After every major failure of a traditional NT in Europe(like England in the last WC) part of the media and supporters got caught in the same (imo) old naive argument and a useless campaign starts.

My post was already too big, so I did not extended myself in my last argument. Like I wrote in my last paragraph, the real problem lies in what Italian coaches are doing in all levels, since the formation, until the pros...

Look back at italy's last good generation. It's success was predicated on MILAN and Jube mostly developing young raw talent. Sure there was Totti, Nesta, Buffon... rare world class talents who no coach in there right mind could bench. But what about Pirlo and Gattuso (IMO both were better than Cannavaro in world cup 2006). Both players came to milan raw and unfinished. Milan stuck with them and they became two of best in world.

(BTW Pirlo sturggled at Inter, what if milan didn't sell buy him and he went back to brescia or atalanta or something?)

Good points, but while I agree(in some extent) about Pirlo and Gattuso, it´s good to highlight they did make sort of a impact when they came here. Sure they were not world class yet, but they were not scared chicks, too. A player need to show at least a little bit of promise to a big Club stick wih them. Thats the price to play CL in a big Club. Look at Abate, even playing a new position(and with mixed presentations), he has adde value to our squad(imo). Pirlo had his chance at AMD at Inter but didn´t produce... He need to thank Carlo´s vision that changed his role.

And that brings another point, I truly believe if you want a world class nT your players have to play omn highest levels. Champions league etc. Look at Italy's 2010 team. Bunch of Genoa and Udinese players....

Thats true, but there are 2 problems here:
- Becuse of Italy rigid foreigners quotas, the small and middles Clubs that must produce quality players to survive(the big ones were used to have money to buy anyone), started to ask imense amount of money for their jewels. Big clubs in Italy can´t pay it anymore and the ones with real quality, don´t do the jump to the big like in the past.

- I stick with my oinion, there´s a hiatus of (real) talent in this Italian generation. Imo a bunch of players being labeled great by fans, would not if they weren´t Italians.

Now you can look at barcelona on the flip side. Again, Xavi is probably best CM in world today, but how many years was he not? Iniesta similarly. Or we can go with more contemporary examples of Pedro, Pique and Busquets. All had talent but very rough. I remembver when they started playing a lot I questioned it but they grew and grew. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN IN ITALY.

Barça is a different animal, no doubt. But those players showed value from day one(and in NT, too). This new Italian generation not.

I'm not saying every kid in Italy has it. But I can tell you this, Palombo, Lazarri, Montolivo, Criscito all deserved chances at big clubs 3-4 years ago. Instead Milan preferred Oddo and Janku. Jube preferred players like Zebina, Poulsen, Sissoko, Zanetti

Of those names, imo the one really wronged is Criscito. But thats bring back to the amount of money Clubs ask for them. It´s like in Englang. Look at what teams have to pay for a English player... Do you remember the last one bought by M. City? Milner(sp?)...

A quote from Pirlo sums it up. "In Italy it's harder for youngsters to get there chance because coaches have a shorter leash with them, when it should be the opposite. I had to go to brescia to prove myself, before Inter would recall me..." (something to that extent)

Pirlo has a real point, but this is Italy, Coaches are seen as Gods. And fans are guilty, too, because they treat them like the ones. As I said before, there´ something wrong with Italian coaches.The Brescia part I don´t agree. Inter reacall him and he failed. It´s his fault...

This does not mean every player will succeed. Of course they won't. But when they don't ever get a chance? How do you expect a national team with a player who had never played a champions league game to handle a knock out round game in a world cup?

Some have a chance, Milano, some not...

But it´s just my personal opinion. I just don´t see the talent in this generation that I saw in the last ones. But some people do... Who knows?!?

Anyone follows Erik Lamela closely? I mean watching all games (even he hasn't played many games) of him regularly.

Originally Posted by Siregar

Anyone follows Erik Lamela closely? I mean watching all games (even he hasn't played many games) of him regularly.

all I know is i heard a Tim Vickery interview on world football daily podcast saying he's a huge prospect.

Vickery, IMO is by far best english speaking pundit reporting in south america. This guy was reason I saw Alexis Sanchez at River, Pastore at Hurcan, Giuliano at Inter or Ganso at Santos. He's very intune with what's going on there...

Lamela gained hype for outperforming Riquelme in el superclaisco (18 year old performing in biggest derby with pressure is impressive)

River play estudiantes today. Braida has apparently extended his stay to watch him (and Mori). Match is at 9pm Italian time (same as Ajax match). I got it on record, i wanna see him play....

Lamela has been hyped for a while, but he's still only played like 13 first team matches. Goes in line with what Milan is trying to do... sign big talent prospects before hype gets out and fee's go thru the roof.