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#91 |
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Registered User
Join Date: 09 2006
Location: South Slavia
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And also ...
I know i shouldn't care if someone's attacking a Milan player, and normally i wouldn't care at all, but injustice is bothering me, a lot, and i know i have good arguments to defend Alberto Gilardino, so i'll give it a one last try to do so ![]() 1. People accuse him he was scoring most of his goals at Parma from penalty kicks. - I think the stats above prove he wasn't. 51 goals on 69 matches in 3 seasons, and only 7 of those were from penalty kick. 2. Drucurl says Gila scored 17 goals in serie A last year mostly because opponents were concentrated on covering Shevchenko. -What ????? Ok, Ok ....even if that was the reason for his 17 goals ( only 1 of them from PK, btw) , i wanna ask why didn't Oliver Bierhoff, Jose Mari, Gianni Comandini , Filippo Inzaghi, John Dal Tomasson, Hernan Crespo or Christian Vieri score 17 goals in one season while playing at Milan ??????? They also had Sheva as their partner in attack. 3. Gila is no good this season. He hardly scored 8 goals on 24 matches. - Fine, lets forget for a sec. that he's Milan's leading scorer this season. In Roma-Milan topic i gave you some statistics. There you can see Gila had 52 shots on/off target this year in serie A. He needed 52 shots to score 8 goals. It's not perfect, i agree. It means he needs 6.5 shots to score 1 goal. Lets compare it with the other top guns. Kaka needed 103 shots to score 5 goals ( 20.6 per goal) Totti needed 149 shots to score 18 goals (8.27 per goal) Toni needed 108 shots to score 15 goals (7.20 per goal) Mutu needed 107 shots to score 13 goals (8.23 per goal) Suazo needed 94 shots to score 9 goals (10.44 per goal) Oliveira needed 58 shots to score 2 goals ( 29 per goal )Ibra needed 90 shots to score 15 goals (6.00 per goal) Only Ibra slightly better than Gila ! And now, of course You'll blame Gila again for not opening well enough so Kaka and co. will give him useful ball. But how come he was opening good enough last year or the years before ? Don't you think the problem maybe isn't with Gila but with the guys who need to provide him with chances ? Pirlo anyone ? Kaka with his 3 assists this year and missed shots from 30 metres, anyone ? Oliveira who'd prefer to shot on goal from 60 metres than assist Gila ? Gilardino is just like Trezeguet or RVN. He depends on the midfield guys or the support striker. If those guys do their job then Gila will score just like he did in previous years. He got the ball 52 times and he scored 8 times. It's still a better average than Totti's and Toni's. If Gila had the chance to shot 108 times on goal, like Toni did, maybe Gila would have been leagues top scorer right now ? But he didn't had that chance because some teammates of his decided it's better if they try to score by themselves instead of giving the ball to the player who's responsibile for scoring the goals ! Discuss ![]()
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People always call it luck when you've acted more sensibly than they have |
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#92 |
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Registered User
Join Date: 05 2006
Location: Caribbean
Fave Players: Kaka, Pato, Messi, Iniesta, Nesta, Gourcuff, Cesc
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In addition to that, we'd need to buy strikers to replace BOTH Gila AND Pippo(who is slowly but surely declining) plus the defense that needs some attention and the midfield. That equals a LOT of money. How about we at least give the guy 1-2 more seasons before we write him off. The same Luca Toni that you all are gushing over now was playing for Brescia at age 24-25 and scored 15 goals in 44 games in the Serie A then transferred to Palermo in Serie B. Look how much he has improved since then. I rest my case.
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#93 |
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Registered User
Join Date: 09 2006
Location: South Slavia
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On second thought... why am i bothering anyway
![]() Why don't you anti-Gila guys write a letter to Galliani and tell him to sell Gilardino to Juve for 10M eur + Zalayeta ? You'll be getting another useless striker but at least you'll get 10m E. Add 10 more millions and you can buy the much wanted Torres ! You'll kill 2 flyes that way. You're getting money and a 4th striker and you're also putting the timber in Juve's attack. Knowing Gila , he'll be useless and your rivals will be the ones losing.
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People always call it luck when you've acted more sensibly than they have |
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#94 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: 09 2006
Location: South Slavia
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And the same Zlatan Ibrahimovic who scored 16 goals in his first season at Juve and sucked big time in his second season (scored 7 goals in serie A on 35 matches) is now easily the best attacker in the world and many MM members can't forgive Galliani for missing on him !
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People always call it luck when you've acted more sensibly than they have |
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#95 | |||||
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Registered User
Join Date: 08 2006
Location: Trinidad and Tobago
Fave Players: Ronaldo Kaka Maldini Nesta Inzaghi Seedorf Pato
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Also the fact that many here are refusing to compare him with the top strikers of today's game is both disheartening and further evidence that you have resigned yourselves to accept his mediocrityQuote:
There is a reason the guys you listed above have such a low percentage.....the shots themselves are low percentage shots....its not like they have been put straight through on goal and have just the keeper to beat. Kaka, for one hasn't had an easy goal in quite a long time. Ronaldo's arrival is making things easier for him. There is alos another reason why Our midfielders' assist numbers are so low......Gila keeps missing.....even if the midfield put you through on the goal line...there is no assist unless you score!!Quote:
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Milan is a rose, love even the thorns.
Last edited by drucurl; 27-03-2007 at 22:01. |
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#96 |
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Registered User
Join Date: 02 2006
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Tony29, thanx for the stats. Some ppl might be objective for their criticism of a player out of their love to the club and I respect their views
Others simply blinded by the fact they WORSHIP a certain player and think the planet revolves around them. There's not much we can do here. Like you said, you have no hidden agenda tod defend him when he doesn't even play for your club. The stats over there prove a point. I for one would be very gutted to lose him to any club (specially if it was a rival club like Juve). But thankfully I think the management in this case know what they're doing. They have always had faith in him |
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#97 |
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Registered User
Join Date: 03 2001
Location: USA; Macedonia
Fave Players: All Milan players!
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Facts don't mean anything to some of these people Tony. They'll even find a way past the facts and still make the argument seem in their favour.
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MILAN FOREVER! |
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#98 |
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Registered User
Join Date: 11 2004
Location: Slovenia
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dont want to go into fruitless debate about gila again...
... cos everytime we talk about him its just "give him a break", "wait another season", "the rest of the team doesnt provide good balls", "he was actually good in the past", "look what he did in parma". Bunch of excuses, i may even think he gets all the waiting in our squad. Why dont we just sell only the oldest ones (33+) and wait for those who are in the squad to start performing. Cos we know they have it and they will prove it sooner or LATER... edit: hm, i actually think we need different tactics or trening approach for this guy to give it all. Somehow i lost hope Carlo can provide it. Last edited by peters; 28-03-2007 at 00:24. |
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#99 | ||||
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Registered User
Join Date: 09 2006
Location: South Slavia
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See Serie A seasons 2003/04 and 2004/05 ( in Historical domestic results). It's a very reliable site. Check match by match and you'll see Gilardino scored only 7 of his Parma goals from PK. Or..there's an easier way. Check youtube's Gila at Parma compilation. Quote:
I just compared his first season serie A stats with the stats of every single Milan striker from 1999-2007 who played alongside Shevchenko. Nobody else at Milan scored 17 or more goals in serie A in last 8 years. Only Shevchenko and Gilardino. I was just providing a proof that your theory is groundless. I'm not refusing to compare him with other top strikers. Last year he scored little more, as much or litle less goals than these strikers. This year he and his team are having a bad post-calciopoli season and it's not fair to use this single season for Gila vs others comparison. Everybody in Milan is scoring less than last years. Why only Gila on target ? You know, all this is like a déjà vu to me. I had exactly the same discussion last year on juventuz.com about Ibrahimovic...totally the same. Of course i failed in all my atempts to explain those guys Zlatan is top class and Juve will have a new Henry case if they sell Zlatan. Ibrahimovic was a flop, a loser, can't score even in a brothel and will never be top class. Now, how could i, "Zlatan lover" beat such strong arguments based on one single season ? And even more. The case with Zlatan was different. He was playing bad and wasn't scoring when the others were having great seasons. Gila's having different problem - he's bad when all the others are as bad as he is. Quote:
Laugh if you want but i know it's true. Kaka missed more easy chances than everybody else in Milan. But if You started a crusade against Gila when he missed an easy chance you've forgiven Kaka immediately when he did the same. If You wanted to linch Gila for missing a penalty you said "bad luck" when Kaka missed his penalty kick. Stats do say a lot. Gilardino made 52 shots and scored 8 goals. Yes, some of them were easy chances that he mustn't have missed but it still stands that he has a good average...better average than most of the others. If you need someone to blame than blame the guy who costed almost as much as Gila, who is suposed to be a support striker and provide chances to Gila, but who never assists but shots from silly positions and has a 58-2 average. Quote:
Why is Kaka passing to Oli then ? To the guy with worst average in Europe ? Come onnn drucurl, don't tell me you're so blind ? Why ANcelotti keeps forcing Gilardino if he's bad ? Why Donadoni keeps using him as a starter when Del Piero is in form of his life and so are Rocchi and all the other Italian strikers ? Why was Capello holding Zlatan in the starting line up even when he was underperforming ? Don't tell me none of them knows his job and none of them knows when he sees a top class striker !
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People always call it luck when you've acted more sensibly than they have |
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#100 | ||||||
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Registered User
Join Date: 08 2006
Location: Trinidad and Tobago
Fave Players: Ronaldo Kaka Maldini Nesta Inzaghi Seedorf Pato
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....I don't believe in luck and I never commented about his miss either.Quote:
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Donadoni isn't exaclty your average Jose Mourinho/ Ferguson..so his decisions can be criticised as well. Italy have been doing rubbish under his watch
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Milan is a rose, love even the thorns.
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#101 |
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Registered User
Join Date: 10 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
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again with the stats... so & so scored this many goals...
when you watch ibra play, you can see his value, superb ball touches, great feet, strikes fear at the heart of defenders when he runs at them, which creates space... does it or did it (@ juve) matter if he actually puts the ball in the net? no. when you watch kaka play, you can see his value...pace and creativity... does he make mistakes, yep, but his good out way the bad. when i watch gila...he fustrates me... i will admit i havent followed this sport for very long...and i hold out hope, that players can turn it around. However, when i watch gila, i dont see that magic, that great first touch, that beautiful curling shot to the upper 90, the explosive speed to blow by a defender, moves that make defenders loose their drawers... i see it in gourcroff...i see it in kaka...as for defending potential i see the spark in bonera... i dont see the magic in olivera or gila. my comparision earlier was to look at the top strikers in the world...and see where gila fits in... is he top 10? Where does Milan's Offense rank today in the world? i guess some of us see gila having the ability to be a top 5 striker in the world and some of us see him not. i dont have the experience yet of watching players mature and improve. Obviously as Milan fans, everyone on this board wishes that he becomes the best player on the planet, and with the exception of the dive, i have nothing personally against the man. i also think it is healthy and enjoyable to debate this issue... for those of you who cant stand it...there are other forums... ![]() |
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#102 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: 11 2004
Location: Slovenia
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I wish i could just wave my hand and say - he has a good scoring record - but i cant. No joy in watching that kind of striker, no joy so far... ![]() |
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#103 |
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Registered User
Join Date: 01 2004
Location: England
Fave Players: Maldini, Pirlo and rest of Milan
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Icculus, Gila isn't the type of striker who has great technique or the ability to blast past defenders, he's a pure target man. Basically, he's the type of player that will always be available as an option up front when the midfield moves forward. He has good ability to hold the ball up for others to join him in attack and lay it off for people running through from deep. This when he's played well this season he has done superbly much to the advantage of players like Kaka.
Drucurl, you're not thinking enough when arguing, or rather you seem blinded by this issue you have with Gila. Firstly, Pippo scored 17 in the season where most of the time he played alone up front, and after Sheva's return his form dropped. However, you could have pointed out Sheva developed his more supporting role after that season to validate your point about how Sheva worked well with Gila. You can't say Kaka is allowed to miss easy chances. I'll be the first to say Kaka is argubly our most important player this season, but to say he's allowed to fail is ridiculous. Kaka has to deliver, and this season though he's excellent, he hasn't provided for forwards as much as he did before. I personally think this lies in other areas of the pitch, and the lack of options Kaka gets when moving forward. Gila when playing is often isolated and marked up front, so how is Kaka supposed to provide? Also, I don't see precisely what Gila said wrong after missing the penalty. To say he'd take it again takes a lot of courage and that time more than ever he needed to show some backbone, because otherwise he'd get eaten alive. Gila may have had more chances to shoot this year and maybe should have, but that doesn't mean the service to him has been good. For a player who requires decent supply of the ball, he's had very little options as often he's been left up front to fight by himself. He's also good with scoring from crosses, which quite frankly on the whole have been atrocious this season. Seedorf is picked ahead of Gourcuff due to experience and strength he has, this to me seems pretty evident. Carlo plays those who are physically stronger alongside Pirlo to protect him, and aim to give him more freedom. Playing one striker has a simple reason behind it, our strikers don't forge good partnerships together. Pippo-Gila was tried and completely failed, Gila-Oliveira showed a little promise, but Oliveira simply isn't a supporting forward, same with R99-Oli and Gila-R99 is a partnership between two forwards who play completely different games, it's a case of chalk and cheese. Oh and just to add, I'm not saying Gila's performances have been good this season. Mostly, he's been poor by his standards, though when he shines he has done very well. He needs a lot more help up front to provide on a regular basis. Last edited by ACMILAN1983; 28-03-2007 at 11:28. |
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#104 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: 10 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
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someone mentioned earlier that they think kaka is hesitant to pass gila the ball...i think i noticed this on a couple of occasions, as well as some frustration from kaka, after he passed him the ball. i think one of the problems i have with gila is that im not a big fan of the "box" striker... i think anyone at that level should be able to be a good "target" man. whereas i see more value in a player that creates the opportunity, not finish it. too this day, i get p1ss3d when a player celebrates after scoring an easy tap in, and the player that beat 2 defenders and played a lovely thru ball is forced to chase this idiot all over the pitch for a hug and kiss!?!? ![]() |
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#105 |
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Registered User
Join Date: 04 2004
Fave Players: every Milan player+ some others
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I almost never write...but I do take a look around.
Alright, I wanted Gila at Milan, and I still do want him to stay. Finally we got a good young player. Now, why I defend him? a) Second season's are tough. I remember Kaka's second season here, it wasn't good, but he had the benefit of being in a team that was fighting for everything, so his bad form wasn't so obvious. Zlatan's last year, just like Tony29 said, was awful. But look at him now, best player in Serie A (well maybe sharing it with Totti). Alright, it wasn't his second season, but remember Sheva's tally of 5 goals in Serie A? We won CL that season, so that's why everybody forgets it, but he was off form for the whole season with the exception of the last month and a half (well, good timing). b) Has anyone ever thought that maybe just maybe he just needs the big summer break comming up? I mean, this guy along with Pirlo is probably one of the most over used players in the last 3-4 years. He played Serie A, CL, Olympics, UEFA Cup, Coppa Italia, Euro under 21, World Cup, Serie A playoffs, and in most of them he played almost all the games (in the Olympics, Euro under 21, and WC his teams went all the way, in CL and UEFA, his teams reached semifinals, in Serie A, last 3 years his teams have been battling till the last day)....needless to remember that our WC players didn't have a break this season. True, he didn't play all the games, but I'm willing to say he played at least 95% of all the games in those competitions, and was bench in the rest. So maybe I'm not off in suggesting a football break for him? c) Truth be told, at age 24, having almost a 100 goals in Serie A is a big deal. A guy that at his first season in a big team scores 19 goals (17 in Serie A), and people say "he only scored 17"....that's a big deal for me. Who cares how or against who, goals are always important, even when you think they aren't. d) Lack of support from the midfield, and lack of a SECOND FORWARD. It is obvious that our midfield has had trouble providing good scoring oportunities to our strikers, and it is even more obvious that we miss a Sheva type of striker...why oh why we didn't bid more on Zlatan is beyond me (and we gave more money to buy Oliveira). It's actually depressing to see Kaka has only 3 assists in the whole season...and it's even more depressing that one can not go out and fully say "it's because they waste all of their chances", cause the reality is that they have wasted some, but I've seen Milan strikers missing far more chances in other seasons. e) We are going to exchange him for Toni or Trezeguet...don't get wrong, both of them are amazing strikers. But a-both of them are 30 (or over 30), nothing against 30+ players, but we already have a lot of them and we are exchanging a 24 year old with them (and I'm sure Prandelli and karma would made us pay this), and b-both of them need midfield support, as long as we don't do some drastic change in our midfield...you won't notice the difference. f) He works hard. I've read several times that he is the type "get first, leave last" from the training sessions. And I remember reading as soon as the concentration nights were optional, he and Pippo were the only ones that kept on going to the concetration. He doesn't complain about being in the bench, and he genuely feels happy when one of his teamates is doing good (well mostly when Pippo scores), which I find a positive vibe to squad. Now, after a long post on the positives, I do have criticism on him: a) Obviously, he needs to improve his confidence. I don't know, but there have been many times this season, you just see it in his face....he is a really "moody" striker. I don't know if he is having some trouble in his personal life, but whatever, he needs to improve his confidence. b) I once read Morfeo telling him to be more selfish...And it's true, he needs to get that 'malice' strikers have. Probably it is personality characteristic of him to not be that way...but its just in the field. c) Work on the timing. Of many things, but mostly of dives. All players dive, dirty or not, they do it, his problem was to do it in a crucial moment, in a CL game that was 0-0... d) Ask for the ball more...there are times he is there all alone, and he moves well, but he doesn't call for the ball. Is just like he thinks that the our midfielders will magically realize he is all alone. e) There are other things..but this are the most important ones for me. Last edited by ACMILAN1983; 28-03-2007 at 16:05. Reason: don't swear |
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