Milan-Cagliari (22nd of February)

Amen to that..

Originally Posted by boring

I'm sure you're joking. Not that Buffon is untouchable but he's way ahead of Abbiati.



You raise a good point. But doesnt Pirlo like to play that deep lying role?
On the other hand, with Italy, he doesnt exactly play that position and he's been bad for a while now.

I think a formation like this would be good to bring out the best in him.

Gattuso - Flamini
-------Pirlo-----

-----Kaka --------- R80

---------Pato

Here Pirlo would be free to play a more attack minded role. Ofcourse that would mean dropping Seedorf. However since Gattuso is out,

---Flamini---

Pirlo - Seedorf

Kaka - R80

----Pato----

Yea i see what you mean, also in a more free role Ronaldinho might be able to go in and cover for Pirlo in that formation. Also the whole point of having to hard tacklers like Gattuso and Ambrosini/Flamini further up the field than Pirlo is to put early pressure on the ball and recover possesion quickly, and we're usually not doing that at the moment, especially when fielding Beckham, Seedorf or even Ambrosini in the midfield.

The downside would be that i think we would lack width, cause Pirlo would have to provide that both left and right.

[quote=Mystik;524465]I don't want Pirlo out of Milan but let's not get ahead of ourselves. One good performance out of a number of lacklustre ones won't quickly change anyone's mind. He needs to keep up the running/movement and not play as a third CD as he does sometimes.[/QUOTE

Agreed with you mystik. Im happy he had a good game (didnt see the game) but he doesnt deserve an automatic starting spot the way hes been playing this whole year.


PS dont you guys miss emerson?

I don't know why sometimes we are so harsh on the players. You really can't expect players to be on top form week in week out, unless you have starting 22 (not 11) who can rotate every other matches, which is not easy.

Regarding Pirlo: his position is so volatile, tricky, and difficult to master that it's not just a position. He has to help with defense, help with distributing the ball (accurately), and connect between defender and attacker. BUt we all know what his weakness is. When no one helps to protect him, he is vulnerable in defense; when no one is to be there at the right place to get the ball, he is not even going to succeed as a ball distributor.

We need to understand, at least for a moment, that football is not an individual game. It is a team game. You need the right individuals who have the right skills to do the right things. At the moment, unfortunately, we have the right individuals but for some reasons all of them are unavailable (which also means that they have less time to play together as a team). Our top defender is out, for years now, adn we have to rely on the 35s (that of course is also the fault of our management). We have a midfield fighter who was out for 6 months. We have a top scorer who somehow could get injured for almost a year. We have a speed monster who constantly got kicked and got injured. Then we got a wonderkid who somehow got injured, as well (god wonders what Milan lab and the Milan doctors are doing).

Our IDEAL formation is this:

Abbiati/Dida
Zambrotta - Nesta - Maldini/Bonera Kaladze/Janku
Gattuso, Pirlo, Ambro/Flamini
Kaka` R80/Seedorf
Pato

How many times have we REALLY been able to fill the right individuals?

Pointing fingers at a particular individual player right now is NOT going to solve the problem. And we have already seen it. If Ancelotti wants to succeed as a coach, he needs the right player. He hasn't gotten any yet.

We pointed in Dida - and now we have Abbiati who is doing great but not enough to win us matches.

We (or at least some of us here) pointed to Gilardino - who is doing wonderful with Mutu at Fiorentina (forget about that he-can't-play-in-big-team theory; as if R99 can).

We are now pointing to Seedorf - because he is slow and stuff. Dude, R80 is not anywhere MUCH better that will squeeze anyone off the field.

We now point to Ancelotti - how can you play 4-3-2-1, 4-4-1-1, or sub Inzaghi out with Ambro in 89mins. Dude, what do we have in attack? It's true that he makes mistakes, but what options does he have? Cardacio? Favalli? or an unfit R80?

***

Football is team game, and our team now is not strong. We need to figure out why quickly and solve the problem.

And I think the first problem is actually the Milan lab and the Milan doctors, not the coach or individual players. The management then have to act fast esp. if we are in CL next year: our defense needs DESPERATE rejuvenation.

Cheers,
J

That's all very nice Jeff, except the strength of the team shouldn't affect people losing the ball around our box and not showing an effort to get it. Or letting midfielders make runs into our box unopposed. Or having a successful pass rate of maybe 30% in an entire match. Those things have nothing to do with the team...it's purely individual.

The team isn't the best but CAN play good football whenever they care to. It was the same thing in 2007. The same players yet they put it 5x the effort in the CL. So yes the players we have aren't the best, I won't disagree. But they can do better.

Good post,jeff! we are playing beautiful football despite endless injuries under carlo's management(only second to barca,I got to admit that).

We also should figure out a way to deal with bunker fooball which plagued us for years.until then,we can compete inter in serieA,inter's physical strikers group is just so effective domestically.

Well, tbh I'm not sure if we are playing beautiful football.

With the extent of injuries we have now, I prefer any ugly play and a win than beautiful play and a draw.

Originally Posted by will4li

Good post,jeff! we are playing beautiful football despite endless injuries under carlo's management(only second to barca,I got to admit that).

2005-06 was the last season we played consistently attractive football. Since then its been a handful of games each season, and the later stages of the 07 CL campaign.

Or this is what I'll say, Vadim. We actually play quite beautiful, but lack finish. If you notice, some of our attack is indeed quite beautiful, but they never score (GK insane, goal posts, injury...)

Anyway... just a thought. Offtopic: how are you Vadim (haven't seen you posted for a long time)...

Occasionally we play good attacking football (Inter, Udinese, Bologna just a few of the ones that come to mind), but overall our level of play is nowhere near what it was three years ago. In 05-06 we scored 85 goals and ripped teams apart week after week. After Calciopoli and Sheva's departure our play has never really returned to that level.

I'm fine Jeff, I read the forums regularly, just don't have that much time to post, but I hope to start posting regularly again.

That's what I intend to do as well.

Interesting to also note that only kaka` is the one who remained after that 85 goals season. I consider Sheva as non-existent.

pirlo, seedorf ,pippo also,if only take offence line into consideration.

Capello ,morinio,benitez...etc play much decipline football.I prefer carlo's football, beautiful skill football merged with decipline.but we should improve our finish,maybe should absorb more physical elements.

Originally Posted by boring

I'm sure you're joking. Not that Buffon is untouchable but he's way ahead of Abbiati.

I mean not now. The point is if he keeps continue to doing many fantastic saves I think it isnt impossible to replace Buffon. But yes Buffon is ahead from him .. now

Originally Posted by Jeff

Football is team game, and our team now is not strong. We need to figure out why quickly and solve the problem.

Despite the game against Cagliari (which I didn't watch), it's true that football is a team game and our team is not so strong but also not that weak. We should actually get better result in Serie A than we've got till this day. The problem is that we can't utilize the true ability from our team (players) like the lazy Seedorf. This player, if he wants TO RUN, could be still a good even great player but unfortunately he didn't (generally) want or at least he didn't run.

Jankulovski was mostly kept playing as fullback where he had shown that he could do much better in midfield and we also have backup in the left back. Ambrosini still and will always play, just like Seedorf even they play terribly. The coach still has his 'fear' if his team had already led 1 goal and then tried to defend in 15-20 minutes even he knows that we don't have good defence and it's obvious in many occasions that it's better for us to play normally compare to defend like small team (even without any single forward, not last game) in order to maintain the scoreline. Etc, etc.

It's true that Ancelotti doesn't get the strongest team that he could get but he also did mistakes with Milan which suffered the team in Serie A. Booing to the coach and Slowdorf in the game against Cagliari is a normal thing because the fans have been suffering for quite long with the results of the team. These two persons should really give their best or go out from Milan. Kaladze even Dida did many mistakes but at least they tried what they could but not Seedorf. He only gave (almost) his best when he only wanted and this is a shame for him as a footballer who has won so many titles.

Originally Posted by Mystik

That's all very nice Jeff, except the strength of the team shouldn't affect people losing the ball around our box and not showing an effort to get it. Or letting midfielders make runs into our box unopposed. Or having a successful pass rate of maybe 30% in an entire match. Those things have nothing to do with the team...it's purely individual.

The team isn't the best but CAN play good football whenever they care to. It was the same thing in 2007. The same players yet they put it 5x the effort in the CL. So yes the players we have aren't the best, I won't disagree. But they can do better.

I would just like to what Mystik said.

Since the days of Rui Costa and Sheva, Milan has become a team of players with individual skill orientation. How many goals have Gattuso, Ambro, Pirlo, Beckham and Flamini put together scored from open play this season? The passing football is only in the midfield, there aren't enough passes play near the edge of the penalty area. Pato doesn't always need a pass from Pirlo to score a goal unlike Sheva. This is just a minute observation.. i'm not sure whether it's very true or not.

The lack of a fighting character is also there. Complacency makes it worse. Somehow, a champions league final appearance every alternate year seems to have become an acceptable goal without any domestic success to show. The team comprises of very successful players who're lacking enough motivation and Carlo doesn't seem to be much of a success on that front.

Btw, loving this new line of discussion.