All posts re: the Italian Football Scandal (Moggipoli)

with Juve out (if they are taken out, that is) and Inter, the top contender, keeping mancini, and Roma's inconsistency, I wouldn't be so quick to write off the title even with 20 pts deduction. As long as we manage to put together a squad rich in quality so that we could keep the players fresher, I think we could match Juve's consistency of the first 2/3 of last season. With that kind of tempo Inter hardly has a chance, at least with mancio at the helm.

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/news...OX.XML&src=rss

Good link Helena!

is it 15 pts or 12 pts, and how about CL participation and transfer rules?

GavinMilan: I think that will be determined if we are proven guilty, but as far as I understand the penalties for breach of Article 1, guilty parties would be restricted only to point deduction..unless the prosecutor or presiding magistrate decides to "tack" that (ie UCL participation, transfers) on to the point deduction punishment....

But basically, if my understanding is correct, all that is applicable, if we are proven guilty, is a points deduction, and based on two important clues (IMO) I think that we wont be so proven:

a) Berlu´s "triumphant" return
b) the posturing of Berlu and Galliani, in sharp contrast to Juve´s reaction..and I could add a third:
c) the evidence against us is based on one phone call, not several...(if my understanding is correct).

So really, IMO (again) I think that our inclusion is more for the "impact" our name brings to the issue, and will soon recede as the other 3 clubs take the spotlight.

Originally Posted by GavinMilan

is it 15 pts or 12 pts, and how about CL participation and transfer rules?

nothing is certain yet, the only thing is milan is being charged but that doesn't mean milan is guilty. They have a very weak case against milan thus the objective responsibility crap. milan might not even be punished. i am quite optimistic about this, the deeper juve is caught in this, the less likely we are involved.

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

GavinMilan: I think that will be determined if we are proven guilty, but as far as I understand the penalties for breach of Article 1, guilty parties would be restricted only to point deduction..unless the prosecutor or presiding magistrate decides to "tack" that (ie UCL participation, transfers) on to the point deduction punishment....

But basically, if my understanding is correct, all that is applicable, if we are proven guilty, is a points deduction, and based on two important clues (IMO) I think that we wont be so proven:

a) Berlu´s "triumphant" return
b) the posturing of Berlu and Galliani, in sharp contrast to Juve´s reaction..and I could add a third:
c) the evidence against us is based on one phone call, not several...(if my understanding is correct).

So really, IMO (again) I think that our inclusion is more for the "impact" our name brings to the issue, and will soon recede as the other 3 clubs take the spotlight.

and the most important think are the games themselves, the clearest proof that Milan were innocent.
The results on the playing field shows the innocence of Milan.

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

and the most important think are the games themselves, the clearest proof that Milan were innocent.
The results on the playing field shows the innocence of Milan.

But you did won that match againtst Chievo
And the ref Meani asked for, was really a linesmen in Chievo match !!!

And btw, in most of the sites i read today, it is said that Milan is accussed on articles 2 and 6.
F.e in sports.it i read this :
MILAN
Articoli violati: 2 e 6 (responsabilità oggettiva e diretta)
Dirigenti: Galliani (art.1), Meani (artt. 1 e 6)
Accusa: Atti diretti ad alterare il corretto svolgimento o il risultato della partita: Milan-Chievo
Responsabilità: oggettiva
Sanzione minima: penalizzazione di uno o più punti in classifica. Se inefficace la sanzione può essere applicata nella stagione che sta per partire.
Sanzione massima: retrocessione in Serie B

So, maximum punishment for Milan is Serie B, not points deduction. As for Juve (if found guilty), Serie B is only the minimum punishment !
But Milan is only charged with objective responsability. That means that the link between the club and the offences are not direct, in other words: Milan didn't have the intention of fixing matches. This intention is only put on Meani and Galliani. That is the good thing regarding the club, because Galliani and Meani will be the ones who'll take the whole guilt, but not the club AC Milan.


I've been thinking about this situation, and imagine the irony : You as Milan fans are even happy with points deduction, while i, as Juve fan, want Milan not to be sentenced at all, because it may mean a smaller punishment for my club ( while point deduction for Milan will certanly mean Serie B for Juve, and Serie B for Milan, means Serie C for Juve )

Originally Posted by Tony 29

Bu
So, maximum punishment for Milan is Serie B, not points deduction. As for Juve (if found guilty), Serie B is only the minimum punishment !
But Milan is only charged with objective responsability. That means that the link between the club and the offences are not direct, in other words: Milan didn't have the intention of fixing matches. This intention is only put on Meani and Galliani. That is the good thing regarding the club, because Galliani and Meani will be the ones who'll take the whole guilt, but not the club AC Milan.


I've been thinking about this situation, and imagine the irony : You as Milan fans are even happy with points deduction, while i, as Juve fan, want Milan not to be sentenced at all, because it may mean a smaller punishment for my club ( while point deduction for Milan will certanly mean Serie B for Juve, and Serie B for Milan, means Serie C for Juve )

Save your irony mate, Galliani is accused only of article 1 for Milan-Chievo a match that we had a goal disallowed and Costacurta sent off from the bench. Meani is not a Milan representative we risk only minus points. Gobbi C.

Originally Posted by Franco6

Save your irony mate, Galliani is accused only of article 1 for Milan-Chievo a match that we had a goal disallowed and Costacurta sent off from the bench. Meani is not a Milan representative we risk only minus points. Gobbi C.

You all know Milan was also fixing, so it's useless to discuss about that. But i really mean it when i say that i want Milan to get out of this completely innocent, not because i like your team ( what's there to like ), but because it's a hope for an easier punishment for my team !!!

Meani - not a Milan representative !!!?@!!! not a general director, or director, but he was a Milan official, and he is accussed on article 6 !
We all know that he was asking for refs and getting them, and for me it's match fixing !! Believe it or not, after the accussations the world will think that Milan are fixers, no matter if your team won't get a strong punishment. Just as it happened with doping scandal and Juve. Juve didn't suffer from it at the end, but Juve's image did suffer !
But this is also useless to talk about because the club AC Milan is not accussed for it.

Oh, and i can't believe how you people are trying to protect Galliani now after he resigned, by saying he did it because of moral reasons.
The man said laud and clear: Only the guilty ones resign in Italy (when some people were asking for his resignation, and he said he won't resign) !
Well, now he resigned and according to his own words : He's guilty !

Originally Posted by Tony 29

But you did won that match againtst Chievo
And the ref Meani asked for, was really a linesmen in Chievo match !!!

And btw, in most of the sites i read today, it is said that Milan is accussed on articles 2 and 6.
F.e in sports.it i read this :
MILAN
Articoli violati: 2 e 6 (responsabilità oggettiva e diretta)
Dirigenti: Galliani (art.1), Meani (artt. 1 e 6)
Accusa: Atti diretti ad alterare il corretto svolgimento o il risultato della partita: Milan-Chievo
Responsabilità: oggettiva
Sanzione minima: penalizzazione di uno o più punti in classifica. Se inefficace la sanzione può essere applicata nella stagione che sta per partire.
Sanzione massima: retrocessione in Serie B

So, maximum punishment for Milan is Serie B, not points deduction. As for Juve (if found guilty), Serie B is only the minimum punishment !
But Milan is only charged with objective responsability. That means that the link between the club and the offences are not direct, in other words: Milan didn't have the intention of fixing matches. This intention is only put on Meani and Galliani. That is the good thing regarding the club, because Galliani and Meani will be the ones who'll take the whole guilt, but not the club AC Milan.


I've been thinking about this situation, and imagine the irony : You as Milan fans are even happy with points deduction, while i, as Juve fan, want Milan not to be sentenced at all, because it may mean a smaller punishment for my club ( while point deduction for Milan will certanly mean Serie B for Juve, and Serie B for Milan, means Serie C for Juve )

Tony, you are rolling your eyes because Milan won the game.

From an intelligent person I expects to consider if there were suspects of wrong refereeing decisions in favour of Milan and not who won the game.

Galliani is not accused on games fixing.

And No, I am not happy with Points deduction. Why should I be happy?

I strongly believe that Milan are victims.

Have you seen this?

It's from channel4.com:
One of the referees indicted is Massimo De Santis, who chose to go on the attack today by aiming accusations at some people who were not named by the prosecutors.

“We have presented an appeal to the Disciplinary Commission so that they can analyse Carlo Ancelotti’s position,” said De Santis. “How could Ancelotti have spent all that time at Juventus with these people and not noticed anything was wrong?”

Now this is disgusting!!!! He should be worrying about his own position and not trying to drag Carlo into this....
And why doesn't he mention Lippi and Capello for example as well as Carlo????
I hope he gets the maximum punishment!

Originally Posted by Tony 29

You all know Milan was also fixing, so it's useless to discuss about that. But i really mean it when i say that i want Milan to get out of this completely innocent, not because i like your team ( what's there to like ), but because it's a hope for an easier punishment for my team !!!

Meani - not a Milan representative !!!?@!!! not a general director, or director, but he was a Milan official, and he is accussed on article 6 !
We all know that he was asking for refs and getting them, and for me it's match fixing !! Believe it or not, after the accussations the world will think that Milan are fixers, no matter if your team won't get a strong punishment. Just as it happened with doping scandal and Juve. Juve didn't suffer from it at the end, but Juve's image did suffer !
But this is also useless to talk about because the club AC Milan is not accussed for it.

Oh, and i can't believe how you people are trying to protect Galliani now after he resigned, by saying he did it because of moral reasons.
The man said laud and clear: Only the guilty ones resign in Italy (when some people were asking for his resignation, and he said he won't resign) !
Well, now he resigned and according to his own words : He's guilty !

No, Meani is not a Milan official.

Galliani resigned????
Galliani is still the vice president of Milan!!!!

He resigned from "Lega" only after he recieved the charges, so what's wrong in this?
He believes that he is innocent, that's why he resists, but after the charges he had no choice left.
But this doesn't meen that he's guilty.

And why you are happy with this? The "Lega" is not the FIGC, it's only representing the clubs. It has nothing to do with refereeing and so on....

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

I strongly believe that Milan are victims.

Eather you're very naive, or i'm blinded by the wish my club not to be the only one involved in this scandal and i can't see how the others were only victims. I guess there is no middle in this matter. One of us is right, but we'll never find out unless a milan official says : we were involved in this scandal !

I can give you many "facts" that Milan is not a victim but a party deeply involved in match fixing, but you'll think those are all lies!
You can give me many "facts" that Milan was a victim, but i'll think those are lies !
Even when we'll know the verdicts, we won't be sure about the clubs guilt/innocence, and this scandal will be debated among fans for a long, long time.

But this victim mentality and conspiracy theories against Milan in this forum are very strange.
You don't even try to take into concideration the possibility of Milan being involved !
Victim mentality is usually equal to "trying to explain the failures...or blaming everyone else for your failures, but not yourself"........at least in life it is !

Originally Posted by Tony 29

Eather you're very naive, or i'm blinded by the wish my club not to be the only one involved in this scandal and i can't see how the others were only victims. I guess there is no middle in this matter. One of us is right, but we'll never find out unless a milan official says : we were involved in this scandal !

I can give you many "facts" that Milan is not a victim but a party deeply involved in match fixing, but you'll think those are all lies!
You can give me many "facts" that Milan was a victim, but i'll think those are lies !
Even when we'll know the verdicts, we won't be sure about the clubs guilt/innocence, and this scandal will be debated among fans for a long, long time.

But this victim mentality and conspiracy theories against Milan in this forum are very strange.
You don't even try to take into concideration the possibility of Milan being involved !
Victim mentality is usually equal to "trying to explain the failures"....at least in life it is !

The proof is in the "suppose fixed matches themselves. The most logic thing is to analise the matches and see if there is a suspect or not.

Don't you see it contradictorial the fact that Milan were so Intelligent in game fixing that they were not caught, but in the same time were so stupid that they loose the championship with a team which shows the best football in both domestic and international leagues.

A blind person is that one who reads "Tuttosport" and believes everything in it.