Winter Mercato

Originally Posted by Siregar

With Ronaldo, who just came back to train, and Pato, I am sure Gila will play much better in the second half of this season.

Dru and Ego are going to disagree (I know ) but I have to mention that Gila would have score well above 20 goals had he taken the penalty in his first year for Milan (It was Shevchenko who took the penalty that year).

This is what makes me unconvinced by Gilardino's skeptics. Not to say that Gilardino is the most fantastic players in the world; there are Toni or currently Van Nis., who are much better than Gilardino.

Having said, Gilardino also experiences low-point, most notably at the beginning of every year when his shooting engine seems to be always always missing.

****

Crying for a new GK at this point can only do harm for Milan because:

1) Kalac is no way better than Dida.

2) No one will come to Milan now as a GK.

3) Milan is not willing to risk dressing room harmony.

4) Dida has been solid for the past 3 months except that one blunder against Inter Milan (and everyone loves to talk about it as if Milan is doomed because of that. How ridiculous this is and how spoilt some MM fans are).

5) Dida is the perfect target to write about for newspaper / goal.com because Dida seldom says anything to the public.

If there is one party that is responsible for Dida's blunders these days, it is, unfortuantely, the some of us over here who whimps about Dida's mistakes, which simply further allows the media to blow some small issues into big problems, not to mention how it might demoralize Dida himself (if he ever reads anything here).

Conclusion about Dida: Milan won't do anything about it, at least for the next 6 months or so, and it will be stupid for Milan to do anything about it at this stage.

has anyone seen Perez from Ajax? i just saw him play vs Inter and he is fantastic.. the commentator also said about his problems with Ajax, so maybe we should check him out. i bet you that Inter will be linked with him from tomorrow

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

What about Emerson? I think you forgot about him.

Zafrul, if you can name an Italian defender who's better than Lucio right now then lets buy him. But there doesn't seem to be one. I think a Lucio & Nesta partnership would be very good. It's not too unrealistic to see ourselves having this back 5 for the start of next season.

------------Boruc------------
--????--Nesta--Lucio--Zambrotta--

Right now the ???? would be Oddo, but that might change to someone like De Silvestri or Rafinha, or the more high profile & more unlikely Alves. I leave that to yous guys

Ah how could I forget Emo, he's one I'm saying we should keep as well lol.

I agree that right now there aren't really any Italian defenders as good as him too that are available, something I forgot to mention in my last post.

Originally Posted by MLM

i don't mind with those Brazilians except the last name
but well.. anything to give his brother felicity

lol, well, Kaka wouldn't be pleased if we got rid of him . I think he's as a player who makes up the numbers, I'd love to see him playing the odd Coppa match at DM

Originally Posted by ThrusT

Actually I thought it was Carlo who used Pirlo in the DM position as the first, but I'm not 100% sure of this. I also thought Pirlo was nothing more than average before joining us, promising but nothing more, again I'm not 100% sure though.

As mehdi said it was Mazzone in Brescia that first used him in DM. Pirlo as a youngster was considered to be the new Roberto Baggio (his idol) and the next great Italian star. He often starred in the Italian junior teams and did very well before Inter signed him, where his career suddenly went downhill. Of course we bought him and the rest is history.

Originally Posted by zafrul

Well, good point... the only name that comes to mind is Barzagli, but everyone knows that he's not doing wonders at Palermo. I think Nesta come out and defended the state of Italian defenders, saying that Ferrari and Barzagli will make the cut, whether he was being super diplomatic, i don't really know.

I don't know about you guys, but I always wanted the Milan DNA to be Italian, altho we had Sheva and now Kaka, but we always had Maldini to represent Milan... I still think we should have a go at Buffon (yes, i realize it's difficult)

But a back 5 like this would look pretty good...

----------Buffon-------------
De Silvestri---Nesta---Lucio----Zambrotta--
(and no, i'm not playing football manager and thinking of fantasy signings)

at least there's only 1 Brazillian in there... we all know in attack we wouldn't trade Kaka and Pato for any italian forward, even Totti, and how much longer would we stick with Gila...

Well, I'm not saying that having the bulk of the team Italian is a must, but it would be good... and at least we won't be Inter...

Around a third of the team would still be Italian normally, with Pirlo, Nesta, Rino, Ambro and Gila all playing fairly regularly.

Originally Posted by zafrul

I know that Oddo has been hammered for his crossing, but I remember his first game for Milan, man was he impressive... I distinctly remember he made a thru pass from defence, crosses we good... but from then onwards it has been a surely but slowly decline...

Then I asked myself, "who in Milan is a great crosser of the ball?" I'm not talking dead ball situation but classic wide man style (either winger or full back) that crosses well on the run? I can't think of anyone... Cafu? He tends to blast the ball from ridiculous angles.. Serginho? we know his end product sucks... Janku? Ok, I think he's decent but i hardly remember any bombardments from the left when he's playing...

Could it be Milan's training regime? So if we go out and get great LB/RB, will they surely and slowly deteriorate as well?

Serginho's got a very good cross actually, even this season when he's not played too well, his crosses are usually good. Cafu also used to have a good cross but it's never been a specialty of his.

Anyway, point is I don't think it's our training regime that deteriorates our fullbacks.

I think our bigest needs is 1 LB, 1 RB, 1 Striker, and 1 GK.

My opinions?

LB:Abidal/ Drenthe
RB: Daniel ALves/ Miguel
Striker:Benzema/ Villa/ Amauri
GK:Frey or Akinfeev

Originally Posted by hitmannq8

has anyone seen Perez from Ajax? i just saw him play vs Inter and he is fantastic.. the commentator also said about his problems with Ajax, so maybe we should check him out. i bet you that Inter will be linked with him from tomorrow

Did Emmanulsen play? Was he any good?

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

Also, tell me more about Catania's Manuel Vargas. How good is he? How old? Would he be expensive? etc etc

I'm not Giovanni but i've seen Vargas 3 or 4 times (and many more times in highlights) and i've been impressed every time i watched him.
I think the guy was originally a midfeilder, because he has all the qualities a good midfielder needs to posess, but he's also a good defender and it makes him a very good fullback .
Veru quick with powerful left foot. Very good crosses and good vision. Imo, the best left back in serie A at the moment.
He is 24, he's from Peru and he adds a little South American flair (not that Milan lacks any of it ) .

Goal.com had him in the serie A team of the half season
http://www.goal.com/en/articolo.aspx?contenutoid=526563


He shouldn't be too expensive but he won't come too cheap either. Last summer it was reported that Catania rejected Roma's 4m euro offer. Since he plays great in 2007/08 his price must be higher now.
Something between 6-10m eur would be enough, imo.

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

Did Emmanulsen play? Was he any good?

I saw him play, good player.

Who knows who will come this month, whatever, hopefully they're smart signings and they can help us immediately on all fronts.

What will happen is we will be disappointed again and sign no one. Regardless of what happens come May, repeat CL champs or not, Carlo will move on. The new manager, whoever he may be, will have a large transfer kitty and clear out the old and sign new players who suit his style. Why spend money on a player now that a new manager may not want six months later? It's wasteful spending.

So look forward to next season folks. Sure, we'll see the lads put forth their best efforts in game 7 of our 15-game season, but we're just going through the motions in the league right now.

The bloodbath begins in the summer. After Euro 2008, then we can go crazy and talk up the transfers. Right now, we're wasting our time.

Originally Posted by Jeff

5) Dida is the perfect target to write about for newspaper / goal.com because Dida seldom says anything to the public.

If there is one party that is responsible for Dida's blunders these days, it is, unfortuantely, the some of us over here who whimps about Dida's mistakes, which simply further allows the media to blow some small issues into big problems, not to mention how it might demoralize Dida himself (if he ever reads anything here).

Conclusion about Dida: Milan won't do anything about it, at least for the next 6 months or so, and it will be stupid for Milan to do anything about it at this stage.

First, I don't see how we can be responsible for Dida's blunders, the man is struggling with form, making mistakes, losing confidence, and costing us games. I understand the bitching and critism doens't really help, but we are Fans, and sometimes Fans are extremely passionate and FANatical... So the outburst should be understandable as well...

And mind you, that Dida has been making blunders over blunders, that even Inter fan (Karim) and Juve (Tony 75?) are telling us, "time to chenge your keeper guys.."

And I don't see anything wrong with making changes NOW, it's not like Milan is the only team thinking about it (in fact I think Milan is the only team that needs to), other big teams are doing so, heck, even Valencia... If you really want something done, you'll get it done, not give us excuses like "it's difficult to negotiate with clubs during winter etc etc etc" crap...

But maybe you're right... Milan just don't want to do anything about it...

Originally Posted by zafrul

First, I don't see how we can be responsible for Dida's blunders, the man is struggling with form, making mistakes, losing confidence, and costing us games. I understand the bitching and critism doens't really help, but we are Fans, and sometimes Fans are extremely passionate and FANatical... So the outburst should be understandable as well...

And mind you, that Dida has been making blunders over blunders, that even Inter fan (Karim) and Juve (Tony 75?) are telling us, "time to chenge your keeper guys.."

And I don't see anything wrong with making changes NOW, it's not like Milan is the only team thinking about it (in fact I think Milan is the only team that needs to), other big teams are doing so, heck, even Valencia... If you really want something done, you'll get it done, not give us excuses like "it's difficult to negotiate with clubs during winter etc etc etc" crap...

But maybe you're right... Milan just don't want to do anything about it...

Individual fans are not responsible for it; nor do a passionte and fanatical fan; having other fans to make comments about changing our GK is probably of no interest to us. The point here is that if fans were more tolerant, at least for the nexts 5 / 6 months, the newspaper will have less probability to publish unfounded talk about replacement of Dida etc. I can give you a few examples:

1) Why the media loves to talk about Kaka moving to REal Madrid?

- because real (and real fans) said they wanted to buy Kaka.

2) Why the media loves to talk about Adriano drinking and partying in Brazil?

- becuase people want to know how pathetic Adriano is.

3) Why the media loves to talk about how awful Ronaldo is now because of his injury?

- becuase they want to cast doubt on Milan Lab and how UNsuccessful Milan lab is.

4) Why the media loves to magnify Dida's mistake?

- because Milan fans WANT to replace him.

5) Why the media talk about Gilardino leaving in the summer?

- because MIlan fans think he simply sucks.

6) Why the media never talks about Gilardino now?

- because it looks like no one is blaming Gilardino for not scoring now (since he doesn';t even have that much of playing time now).

7) Why the media always say Milan is old but never an individual is old?

- becuase Maldini is a freaking legend that no media is willing to take the risk and say, "hey, it's time to replace Maldini".

Trust me: If fans want Gattuso to leave (for whatever reason), then the headline won't be "Gattuso trained with Ranger" but "Gattuso has prematurely agreed a switch to Ranger".

This's the reason why I say partially the media hype about which players Milan is going to buy is actually the fan. Not intentional, but that's how the media will take adv. of it.

Given that, will management do anything about it now to allow the media to make more fuss about the milan management?

I do not disagree (i.e., agree) that it may be a time for change for our GK, but not now, not right in the middle of the season when MIlan still stands a chance in CL.

June, however, may be a good time for change.

Jeff,

Kaka - I don't think it was the fans, more like the president ANNOUNCED that he WILL sign Kaka if elected President, and has been on the Kaka hunt ever sinced.

Adriano - maybe media does scrutinize every single move he makes, but he has been playing like crap and does not live like professional football player, i guess he's the britney spears or lindsey loohan of football... easy target!

Ronaldo - I do think the media is making a big fuss out of nothing...

Dida - This is the hottest topic right now, why? Yes fans want to replace him, for comical errors, celtic fiasco, costing us games etc etc. And it's not just a couple of games, it's been a while. So, is the media making a big fuss out of nothing?

Gilardino - After 3 years, I think most of us have come to terms with Gila not turning out to the next Paolo Rossi, which he had so much promise to be, when he was banging in goals for Parma... It's at the acceptance level, even at Milan where 34 year old Inzaghi is 1st choice... So, there is a chance of him leaving this summer..

Milan - I don't think the media is saying Milan is old because of 1 player, Milan is old because of numerous players... Cafu, Serginho, Inzaghi, Favalli, Dida, Maldini are 35 and over (except inzaghi 34), and most in this list are first choice... then there's the 30-34 bracket with the likes of Nesta, Seedorf, Brocchi, Oddo, Ambro(?), Emerson, Ronaldo... Feels like an old team to me, don't think the media can call Milan a youthful team..

Well, sometimes Media makes a big fuss out of thing, can't blame them, it's their job to sell news and get readership, but most of the time is simply stating the obvious, and in Milan's case these days, it's pretty simple.

I don't see why we can't change our GK right now in Jan, we made such a big fuss last season in signing Ronaldo and saying again and again how much impact he made for us and helped us get the 4th spot. And how his performance for 6 months warrants his stay at Milan and how we hope he can replicate it again this season.

If we can do it with an attacker, why not a goalie? A goalie wins games too, just go ask Buffon...

Originally Posted by zafrul

If we can do it with an attacker, why not a goalie? A goalie wins games too, just go ask Buffon...

I do not believe that Buffon will leave Juventus. If he had wanted to leave, he would have left last season when Juventus was relegated.

Equating Buffon to Ronaldo as savior is a good comparison. I agree that Buffon will be a perfect substitution for Dida, but Buffon is probably the only person in the world who can replace Dida. Frey et al. are just fantasy names on paper right now who have little experience in Champion League game; indeed, will you compare Frey as Buffon or as Ronaldo (as a striker?)? I don't think so. I don't think they are on the same caliber, yet, though potentially they may.

If Buffon is coming to Milan in Jan, I"m all up for it, but it simply won't happen. Given that, I don't see how on earth any other keeper in the world will be able to replace Dida, except Buffon, at the middle of the season.

If MIlan has to replace DIda, it has to be someone who has some experiences in CL, but as you probably agree it's probably very very difficult to get them. With Juve back to CL next year, getting Buffon is almost impossible. It may be sensible to get Frey (et al) in June, but I don't think it's the right decision right now.

A note on Media: The media will not, I suppose, write any stories on a particular player unless there are fusses around them, and these fusses are mainly (but not all the time) created by the fans. You are right that it's the media's job to create all these nonsense, but if this is the case then why are we taking the media's words seriously in so many incidences?

The point is that I am always always skeptical about media's rumors and speculation; I think more than 50% (and this is a conservative number) of the time the rumor is nonsense, ridiculous, and stupid; written simply to create chaos among fans. But anyway...

[quote=zafrul]Jeff,

Kaka - I don't think it was the fans, more like the president ANNOUNCED that he WILL sign Kaka if elected President, and has been on the Kaka hunt ever sinced.

Adriano - maybe media does scrutinize every single move he makes, but he has been playing like crap and does not live like professional football player, i guess he's the britney spears or lindsey loohan of football... easy target!

Ronaldo - I do think the media is making a big fuss out of nothing...

Dida - This is the hottest topic right now, why? Yes fans want to replace him, for comical errors, celtic fiasco, costing us games etc etc. And it's not just a couple of games, it's been a while. So, is the media making a big fuss out of nothing?

Gilardino - After 3 years, I think most of us have come to terms with Gila not turning out to the next Paolo Rossi, which he had so much promise to be, when he was banging in goals for Parma... It's at the acceptance level, even at Milan where 34 year old Inzaghi is 1st choice... So, there is a chance of him leaving this summer..

Milan - I don't think the media is saying Milan is old because of 1 player, Milan is old because of numerous players... Cafu, Serginho, Inzaghi, Favalli, Dida, Maldini are 35 and over (except inzaghi 34), and most in this list are first choice... then there's the 30-34 bracket with the likes of Nesta, Seedorf, Brocchi, Oddo, Ambro(?), Emerson, Ronaldo... Feels like an old team to me, don't think the media can call Milan a youthful team..

Well, sometimes Media makes a big fuss out of thing, can't blame them, it's their job to sell news and get readership, but most of the time is simply stating the obvious, and in Milan's case these days, it's pretty simple.

I don't see why we can't change our GK right now in Jan, we made such a big fuss last season in signing Ronaldo and saying again and again how much impact he made for us and helped us get the 4th spot. And how his performance for 6 months warrants his stay at Milan and how we hope he can replicate it again this season.

QUOTE]

Kaka - Well, think about the discomfort that it creates among fans (and the joy among Real fans); that's what the media loves is n't it? If no one gives a fuss about Kaka's rumor, why will media bother ?

Dida - I don't know if the media is making a big fuss out of nothing because of his mistakes; but I think it happens also to other goalkeepers in the world but we are unaware of; why doesn't the media then write about these stories?

The only reason I can think of is Dida's 'consistent' low-standard errors; but i'm not sure if it's the ridiculous level of mistakes that Dida make or the number of errors he make that attracts the most attention.

Remember: you can make a not-so-ridiculous-mistake and yet you concede goals: poor positioning, slow reflex, problematic punching etc.

Let me give you an example Ican think of: the game against Shakstar at San Siro. Isn't the GK's mistake to punch the ball out right at Seedorf and lost his positioning momentarily, which allows Seedorf to volley home?

Another example: Isn't it a lot of mistakes by GK who fails to prevent Pirlo's freekick? (e.g., recent goal by Pirlo against INter MIlan; if you look carefully, the wall is poorly positioned such that the ball is able to curve over the very right side of the wall to head home; the GK should be blamed becuase of awful positioning of the wall or lack of numbers in wall). Yes, Pirlo is a tricky freekicker, but with some attentions and skills, a lot of goals can be prevented (e.g., Deportivo's 4th goal by Milan a few years ago).

You see my point? It's just because of the ridiculous mistake by Dida doesn't necessarily mean that Dida is a poor GK. Frey can be less prone to these kinds of mistakes, but what if he is awful at letting in freekick goal? As a matter of fact, I really can't remember MIlan conceding any goal from direct FK (i.e., shoot stright at the GK). Perhaps once or twice which have slipped my mind surely, but is it not something that we should give credit to Dida, yet nobody notices?

Milan - Average age of the team is relatively old; but if you count on the starting XI in CL, it's just completely different. In fact, old teams like Italy and France are the finalist in world cup. Milan, being portrayed as old for 5 years, IS the most successful team in CL. I'm sure you don't want to fall into the Arsenal-age-level trap (which is playing great recently btw).

Hope this makes sense to you. - J

Jeff, you are a sensible and very respected poster.
But i couldn't disagree with you more about Dida: Dida has got the double or the triple of the usual tolerance any top club player normally receives.

And backing players over and over despite their performances won't make a better fans out of you. That's not loyalty. That's blindness.

(And i state this with the biggest respect and sympathy to you ).

Originally Posted by Jeff

Dida - I don't know if the media is making a big fuss out of nothing because of his mistakes; but I think it happens also to other goalkeepers in the world but we are unaware of; why doesn't the media then write about these stories?

The only reason I can think of is Dida's 'consistent' low-standard errors; but i'm not sure if it's the ridiculous level of mistakes that Dida make or the number of errors he make that attracts the most attention.

Remember: you can make a not-so-ridiculous-mistake and yet you concede goals: poor positioning, slow reflex, problematic punching etc.

Let me give you an example Ican think of: the game against Shakstar at San Siro. Isn't the GK's mistake to punch the ball out right at Seedorf and lost his positioning momentarily, which allows Seedorf to volley home?

Another example: Isn't it a lot of mistakes by GK who fails to prevent Pirlo's freekick? (e.g., recent goal by Pirlo against INter MIlan; if you look carefully, the wall is poorly positioned such that the ball is able to curve over the very right side of the wall to head home; the GK should be blamed becuase of awful positioning of the wall or lack of numbers in wall). Yes, Pirlo is a tricky freekicker, but with some attentions and skills, a lot of goals can be prevented (e.g., Deportivo's 4th goal by Milan a few years ago).

You see my point? It's just because of the ridiculous mistake by Dida doesn't necessarily mean that Dida is a poor GK. Frey can be less prone to these kinds of mistakes, but what if he is awful at letting in freekick goal? As a matter of fact, I really can't remember MIlan conceding any goal from direct FK (i.e., shoot stright at the GK). Perhaps once or twice which have slipped my mind surely, but is it not something that we should give credit to Dida, yet nobody notices?

Milan - Average age of the team is relatively old; but if you count on the starting XI in CL, it's just completely different. In fact, old teams like Italy and France are the finalist in world cup. Milan, being portrayed as old for 5 years, IS the most successful team in CL. I'm sure you don't want to fall into the Arsenal-age-level trap (which is playing great recently btw).

Hope this makes sense to you. - J

I guess the whole Dida issue won't be such a big deal if he wasn't playing for Milan, but when you play for a team that has won the most trophies in the world and wants to be no.1 on the planet, then the standards are pretty high... he has to earn and justify the $3.5mil per year he pockets!

As you mentioned, the Shaktar keeper fumbled the ball to Seedorf, that's why he's still stuck at Shaktar and not in SerieA, La Liga or EPL...

But I expect our no.1 Milan keeper not only to have fundamental skills like setting defensive walls, proper keeper positioning, catching balls, rushing out and other basic fundamental stuff, but also sometimes to produce moments of magic (and I say moments, not all the time), like we get from Kaka's runs, Inzaghi's goals, Nesta tackles, Maldini's leadership, Gatusso's bite, Pirlo's freekicks...

Sorry to say Dida doesn't produce any magic whatsoever, instead produces Voodoo or some other black magic that sends me to total shock and spasm just by watching it...

Sorry, but my standards for the Milan no.1 is somewhat high...

On the Milan age, you are right to say that the World Cup final was played by 2 older teams, Italy and France... but for france, that was the end of a golden team that won the world cup and euro, the same for Italy as well...

But correct me if i'm wrong, the oldest player on the field was 34? I'm thinking Thuram, Cannavaro, Zidane (33?), and mind you that the World Cup is a 1 month event with a maximum of 7 games. It's not a 9 month long campaign with 40 games and internationals in between.

And our oldest player right now is 39, we have 2 wing backs at 37 (and our systems require the wing backs to cover the flanks)... So dude, I think we're pushing the concept of 'old world cup teams' a little bit too far...

Hey, whatever it is this is not a debate or anything, just sharing opinions and hope it's still all in good nature...

Cheers