Winter Mercato

omg anyone read this!! http://www.goal.com/en/news/1711/che...-leave-chelsea

alex really wants to leave chelsea!! i know he is non-eu is there ANY possible way we can get him in january!! it would be amazing!!

Originally Posted by GeoTav

No hostility from me against you
If you think there is, so I said something in a wrong way and you would be very nice to tell me where (to allow me to change that), and if it is because I often reply you, it's just that we almost always disagree !! lol

About Moggi, ok, it was just a joke, umh not really a joke, just irony, he made "amazing" job in Juventus in the choice of players, but he made it in a way that cost so much to this club (Serie B, players sold) and so, I clearly can't take him as an example in anything.



But if he is a coward because he doesn't get any of the players he asks for and doesn't leave, so Wenger is a coward too ?!

Anyway, about these two coaches, I'll explain later in this same reply ...



Here comes my vision of Ancelotti and Wenger ...
You say that Wenger would do amazing things if he was in Milan by bringing our best players and adding young ones each year ... what I think about that is that it would be impossible, the best players, the ones who have the most developped ego generally too, would leave the club with Wenger as a coach. Henry didn't leave because he was more paid in Barcelona, Gallas won't leave to be paid more (even if for Gallas, the problem is also himself being totally stupid lol), etc.

For me, Wenger can develop players, like Gabriel said, and he's even probably the best coach to develop young players in the world ... but he can't manage a complete team with young promising players and older established ones. He is ok with young ones, probably because of authority of something like that, but that doesn't work with older ones, they don't need another "father".

Ancelotti is the contrary, he knows how to manage established players in a same team, but he gets some problems with the younger ones ...

Actually, if we replace Ancelotti today, it would be to find a coach who is a fusion between Wenger and Ancelotti ... the most complete coach I think.

And about our loss against Juventus, I won't agree again with you mrki (sic, I thought we would agree about this match, but apparely, not lol), I think this defeat is very important ... not because we lost 4-2 in Turin, but because I never saw "grinta", motivation, etc in our players (even if some of our best players missed, but it's not an excuse), it was the first time I saw our team like that against one our main rivals, we played great or at least we played with a lot of motivation against Inter and Napoli, but we did nothing against Juventus ... I end there, it has nothing to do in a mercato topic anyway, sorry.

Thankfully, someone here is talking without any bias!!

One thing I will say is that everybody here goes on about Ancelotti not playing young and unestablished players. OK Gourcuff and Gilardino didnt perform. Yes I admit Ancelotti was totally wreckless and irresponsible with Gourcuff, there are no excuses, but Gilardino had an unlimited number of chances and his failure was down to himself.

Ancelotti has made a success of other young and unestablished players. Why does he get all the blame and none of the credit. He is the one who managed Kaka's integration into the team. He is the one who has used Pato as a starter all season. He is the one who fit Pirlo into the team. He is the one who turned red card magnet Bonera into a reliable defender. He is the one who allowed Gatusso to grow from an average ex Rangers player into Rino. He is the one who has oversaw Ambrosini finally fulflll his potential. Even when Seedorf came to Milan, his career was in trouble and with Carlo's help he has since won two more CL titles. He is the one who has managed to ballance this bunch of Galacticos and get fat Ronaldhinio who Barca had thrown away into a player who is winning us points. These players all had potential and he has brought a hell of alot out of them.

So yes, maybe he failed with Gourcuff and Gila, but how many young and talented players does he honestly get to work with. How many future world stars does this man actually get to develop. People here demand to see Darmian, what a joke. Who was the last Milan youth product to make it big. What makes you think he is even good enough for Carlo to risk his neck for. At the end of the day, the man has to put up with Galliani's insane mercato and for the sake of his own job he cant risk playing young players. Milan does not have the same low expectations as Arsenal.

Now lets consider the so called Messiah Wenger. How many players has he failed. Only days ago Portsmouth sold Diarra to Real Madrid for 20M. Diarra has blasted Wenger for not giving him a chance when he was at Arsenal. Then lets consider players like Francis Jeffers, Jermain Pennant, Geremie Allidierre, Nicolas Anelka. What about Ebboue who was one of the hottest rightbacks in Europe not so long ago. Now Arsenal fans boo him. If Ancelotti gets the blame for Gila then Wenger gets the blame for this. Even Flamini was on the bench for a couple of seasons without getting any playing time. Think of how much development he lost and then Wenger has the nerve to blame us for stealing him when in reality he is the one who burnt his bridges with Flamini by ignoring him.

Carlo has his faults, as do all managers. The fact is that he is having to rely on the worst defence most of us Mian fans have ever seen us have. To add to that we dont have a single striker capable of getting 24 goals. How on earth can anyone expect anything more than this from him?

Originally Posted by remote2book

omg anyone read this!! http://www.goal.com/en/news/1711/che...-leave-chelsea

alex really wants to leave chelsea!! i know he is non-eu is there ANY possible way we can get him in january!! it would be amazing!!

I am concerned what Milan has a front 3 of Brazillians and if we get Alex we would have a back two of Brazillians. With all the other nationalities in the team, there is a serious lack of Italian influence.

The problem with Carlo is that he tursts the same players in every game, even some or many of them played terribly. This yields to a conclusion that there is no reward and punishment in his system. The same Kaladze, Seedorf will always play no matter how bad they are. This brings no competition to the team. It's useless to have substitutes if there is rarely fair decision on choosing the players for a game.

What we lack of (or even don't have on certain games) is motivation. There were only few players who play with their heart from one game to another game. Gattuso is one of them. The others are crap with respect of their motivation in a game. This is influenced by the pick order Carlo has IMO. If a player is sure that he will play no matter how bad he plays, then why should he care about his performance?

For me, there are two possibilities to overcome that problem (actuall three but we can't fire Galliani right? ). The first one is to sack Carlo and bring a new coach to make a new challenge for all players and second to still keep in faith on Carlo but Galliani co. must bring hiqh quality players that can compete (with respect of Carlo standard : established players or wonderkids ala Kaka or Pato) with our current players. This happened with Gattuso.

If Gattuso didn't have his huge motivation this season, he would be easily kicked by Flamini to the bench. He would be trusted by Carlo (like Carlo trusts Kaladze, Seedorf, Pirlo etc.) to play in Gattuso's position (if Gattuso were still same like last season) because Flamini is a high quality player and an established one, a minimum qualification to get Carlo's faith.

I understand about your concern K77SHC. I have no objection to 3 Brasilian strikers as lately Italy doesn't produce many brilliant promising strikers. We just dump one to Firenze.

But personally, I prefer Italian defenders as both Italy and Milan have a glorious tradition of producing world best defenders. It's sad that after Franco and Paolo, no other talented CB came from our youth.

But I'm not worried about the lack of Italian influence, we still have more Italian palyers in starting eleven than our cousin

Originally Posted by Nalx

I understand about your concern K77SHC. I have no objection to 3 Brasilian strikers as lately Italy doesn't produce many brilliant promising strikers. We just dump one to Firenze.

But personally, I prefer Italian defenders as both Italy and Milan have a glorious tradition of producing world best defenders. It's sad that after Franco and Paolo, no other talented CB came from our youth.

But I'm not worried about the lack of Italian influence, we still have more Italian palyers in starting eleven than our cousin

Actually the problem with producing great defenders happens not only with Milan but also with other teams. We can look at now the situation with italian defenders. Who is now great (already not in progress) defender? It's arguably only Chiellini.

So, it's very difficult now to find great or just good italian defenders. I agree with opinion of using italian defenders but if there is no posibility to have them, we should then turn to other nationality IMO.

Nowadays, I think the best defense possible in Italy with Italian players would be something like Zambrotta (not sure at all anyway), Chiellini, Santacroce, and ... probably Bonera.

Siregar, I disagree with your thought about Kaladze remaining in the starting XI every single match even when he is very bad because Ancelotti can't change his mind ...
Let's play a game, you are Ancelotti and you have the following team:
- Nesta is out
- Bonera is out
- Maldini is old and can't play two games in a row
- same for Favalli (who is far from Maldini in defensive skills lol)
- Darmian is ... we don't know how he is (why don't they loan him ??)
- Senderos is out one month after each game played (and he isn't good at all)
- other defenders such as Zambrotta, Antonini and, not a defender at all actually, Jankulovski, have to play on the sides.

Who plays in your defense ??

Kaladze-Favalli and Kaladze-Maldini, you have no other choices with the current team actually.
And let's pray that Kaladze who plays really bad nowadays doesn't get an injury, or we will have an unfit Favalli-Maldini in defense (unfit because after 2 games, they will not be fit anymore).

PS: About Wenger, despite his ability to develop young players (K77SH_C, he wasted many players of course, but when you have a team with 20 kids, you can't use the 20 just to develop them, you need to win too ^^, so you put the best ones on the pitch more often than the other ones), do you seriously think he has the right skills to make good tactics in Serie A ? I'm not sure at all ...

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Nowadays, I think the best defense possible in Italy with Italian players would be something like Zambrotta (not sure at all anyway), Chiellini, Santacroce, and ... probably Bonera.

Siregar, I disagree with your thought about Kaladze remaining in the starting XI every single match even when he is very bad because Ancelotti can't change his mind ...
Let's play a game, you are Ancelotti and you have the following team:
- Nesta is out
- Bonera is out
- Maldini is old and can't play two games in a row
- same for Favalli (who is far from Maldini in defensive skills lol)
- Darmian is ... we don't know how he is (why don't they loan him ??)
- Senderos is out one month after each game played (and he isn't good at all)
- other defenders such as Zambrotta, Antonini and, not a defender at all actually, Jankulovski, have to play on the sides.

Who plays in your defense ??

Kaladze-Favalli and Kaladze-Maldini, you have no other choices with the current team actually.
And let's pray that Kaladze who plays really bad nowadays doesn't get an injury, or we will have an unfit Favalli-Maldini in defense (unfit because after 2 games, they will not be fit anymore).

An easy example last game against Wolfsburg. Kaladze was disaster against Juve and again was trusted by Carlo to substitute Senderos. Why not Darmian? UEFA Cup is not our priority. If Carlo 'dared' to play unfit Senderos (in a game where Senderos made debut) why couldn't Carlo trust Darmian who is now on his second year with Milan's first-team squad? But he instead put a defender who his errors can't be accepted anymore.

In Serie A is another example. Carlo used Kaladze instead of Favalli. He did pretty good job partnering with Bonera than Carlo trusted Kaladze again and again.

The reality is that Kaladze's current quality isn't worth for Serie A especially for a big team like Milan!

Originally Posted by Siregar

An easy example last game against Wolfsburg. Kaladze was disaster against Juve and again was trusted by Carlo to substitute Senderos. Why not Darmian? UEFA Cup is not our priority. If Carlo 'dared' to play unfit Senderos (in a game where Senderos made debut) why couldn't Carlo trust Darmian who is now on his second year with Milan's first-team squad? But he instead put a defender who his errors can't be accepted anymore.

In Serie A is another example. Carlo used Kaladze instead of Favalli. He did pretty good job partnering with Bonera than Carlo trusted Kaladze again and again.

The reality is that Kaladze's current quality isn't worth for Serie A especially for a big team like Milan!

Because Dzeko is much stronger than Darmian and he will crush young boy..
Kaladze is disaster this year and that is that..

Who is Dzeko?

Edit : you mean big striker from Wolfsburg? I don't think that was the reason. Dzeko, from what I watched, was marked by Favalli and not by Kaladze.

But the point is Carlo still and will only trust same players (established one) EVEN they played horribly (no reward and punishment).

Originally Posted by Siregar

Who is Dzeko?

Edit : you mean big striker from Wolfsburg? I don't think that was the reason. Dzeko, from what I watched, was marked by Favalli and not by Kaladze.

But the point is Carlo still and will only trust same players (established one) EVEN they played horribly (no reward and punishment).

You are completlly wrong about markink,Favalli plays with more fredom than georgian who had hard battle with Dzeko,he is best player on pitch last night along side Pato!!
Favalli had good game last night,but kaladze was disaster..

Ancelotti want's reinforcment in the defense line..

Originally Posted by rinogattuso

You are completlly wrong about markink,Favalli plays with more fredom than georgian who had hard battle with Dzeko,he is best player on pitch last night along side Pato!!
Favalli had good game last night,but kaladze was disaster..

Ancelotti want's reinforcment in the defense line..

Well, what I watched is that that big striker was on Favalli's position and Favalli who was the one that was responsible to guard him. So, if you say 'completely wrong' it could be you watched other game. LOL.


Kaladze is (almost) always disaster this season.

a) When we talk about quality of CB's we need to understand that its always a pairing of two players we are talking about. Why Kaladze performed some extraordinary games as a CB for Milan ( yes he did have his brilliant games )? Becouse he palyed next to Nesta. Defenders depend on their CB pair as no other two players on the field. To play alongside Nesta makes you 30% better player. Nesta copntrolls space and allows you to just go and clean the passes, but with slower Maldini, Senderos, Bonera, Favalli that is not possible for Kaladze. Kaladze is a "violent" and aggresive player (not that he is unfair, but he is not playing with brains but with power ). Just wanted to explain that.

b) Geo Tav its all ok, no hard feelings. But right now I cannot talk about Wenger vs Carlo again as I dont have enough time to respond to all those posts ( which were very nice to see on MM, a real football debate ).

I just want to say that I do not say Wenger is a Millan messiah ( someone constantly is putting that words in my mouth, Im sorry but I cannot remember which poster exactly says that right now. No offence to that person. ).

About Wenger and players in and out of Arsenal. Players didnt leave Arsenal coz of Wenger, or coz of money, but becouse Arsenal is not a top european culb like the big ones that dominate Europe ( milan, Juve, Barcelona, Madrid, United...). People want to play in the best possible club and they just leave. A coach cannot stop players go. But a coach can choose which players to bring in, and he rarelly misses. Yes he had some misses, but comparing to sucessfull players he brought in, its nothing.

Eboue failed becouse Sagna was simply better, aldough I really liked the way Eboue plays.

Wenger in Milan? You asked me that: I was just sayin', if Wenger has Milan players and yout picks few kids (3 players ) like he did in Arsenal he would be able to construct a great team. But if Galliani and Berlusconi buy players FOr Wenger, than there is no point of bringing Wenger to Milan in ANY case. They are doing it for Carlo and things are not working as you can see.

I want to say this: bring Wenger, let him bring 3 young players and bring back Yoan, ( lb, CM and one forward he chooses ) and he will not ruin them. Pato and Yoan will play good and some players will be benched. We lack profesionalism right now, its visible.

Same guilt goest to Berlusconi who doesnt want to pay as much as today's football asks to. So Ancelotti is a manager for him, that is the way things go when you dont want to spend money.
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Alex ( Chelsea ) - great player, but is a non-eu. Fortunately we bought VIUDEZ! ( maybe he is a son of an important politician or something...but to use non-eu place for him is .....its.....(Im just wawing my hands now!).

Cheers people, continue with good posts.

Great post Mrki

But i ought to disagree with you on a couple of points.

1) players didn't leave Arsenal because its not a top club but because they didnt see it becoming a big club anytime in the near future. Wenger is an arrogant man who does not like to be corrected. He is a top manager but he's stuck up on a few things and those exact things are not letting Arsenal become the best in England.

Arsenal has done everything a top club has.. they've also reached the Champions League Final and had an unbeaten season but yet he fails to reach that highest level. David Villa is a top top player and he wanted to join them. It's not about attracting players.

2) Professionalism is what Arsenal lack because kids are not professional. We must understand that Wenger will do things in a way that might not suit Milan. He's not made for every club.

I do agree with what you sad about Eboue. I liked him a lot until became a twunt. His ability to bring useful players is also high. Plus he knows when to sell them. Look at Benitez.. pathetic at the transfer market.. just awful.

But i have a serious problem with him. I agree with Platini about the whole poaching issue and even though Milan have done it as well, they still arent as bad as Wenger who is of course the leader. His contribution to domestic English football players is close to nil and I dont want a Milan which has no players in the Italian squad.

Bring back Rijkaard and give him some money Berlusconi you corrupt b*****d and watch him turn things around.

saying that Carlo played kakas brother last year and he was useless. Darmian should start, worst case sub him in the game. We will never know how good he is unless we try.

Grill me if you will, but I think the problem with players in italy is the same as in England. Theres too many foreign players comming through. Milan has gone brazilian crazy... I cant see what Dida, Emerson and even Pato at times could do that italian player couldnt? Ive always thought milans defence should be a italian, and it troubles me with the rumours of brazilians comming in defence. After Baresi and Tassoti left, Milan signed dutch players and it was a big mistake.. i can see it happening again!