All posts re: the Italian Football Scandal (Moggipoli)

Originally Posted by Kaka1899

Gazzetta says that the five clubs are -Bologna, Lecce, Treviso, Brescia and Messina and the trial is suspended until july the 5th

Actually, Reggina is the club that may join the 4 clubs mentioned before ( Juve, Milan, Lazio and Fiorentina). Reports suggest that the same investigators who found "evidence" against the above mentioned clubs, are now investigating Reggina !

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

Dear Kui,

May I suggest that you read my initial post, wherein I outlined my theory regarding the circumstances surrounding Pessotto´s "accident", or better yet, here is an excerpt:



If people who read my "theory" found it amusing, then that is their business, and I seriously suggest Kui, that you read in detail before criticising comments/posts.

It was a yes or no question Warro. If it WAS an attempt to be amusing Warro, I gave you the condition. It was not an accusation. Nor was it adressed to you but to your responder with his LOL!

Originally Posted by Warro

Now, to your point about our possible relegation...Gazzetto, like it or not, is a newspaper, who, in order to survive, must sell copies of its publication.

Warro it isnt just about relegation. It is a whole plethora of cr@p that compounded one after the other.

1. The heartbeat of this club lies within us fans. As such why people had their hearts in the wrong place at this initial scandal when only Juve was solely involved is just upsetting to me. Instead of concern for the whole league, we took our hearts to greed and covet in the hope that we get some gain or benefit from it. What is it that we would ever want from Juve? IMO do we not have an equal if not better legacy than they? In the end we also didnt take a care for our club by "putting our heart" in the wrong place.

2. The double standards, excuses, and what nots we laid on our rivals without serious thought to our hypocracy. I've been given factoids on what happens in ref calls, what was printed in the newspapers, and what result was shown as "PROOF POSITIVE" of someone allegedly cheating. We lay these on others yet change the standards when pointing the same towards us. Why is that? If we fail to treat others fairly, what makes any of us think that we would be treated fairly too?

3. The lack of insight, foresight, hindsight and anything called or dealing with vision or with eyeballs from the lot in MilanMania. This cr@p scandal was trouble to us from day one to which no one took my foresight seriously. Now beleive me... I dont want friggin credit to this. But with all the brilliant foresight fans here have with tactical lineups before a game, scouting of potential future players, and other thought of wisdoms as brilliant as they truly are.... why the heck are so many not using such brilliance here in this case?

4. Let me give you some more foresight than.... Whether we are guilty or not is besides the point. The mere fact that we are lumped in with Juve is bad in many $$$ ways. These legal things cost us unneccesary amounts of $$$ that we could and should be using for the upcoming calciomercato. The judicial process is delaying and putting on hold our acquisition of potential players. It is shortening our transfer season. With the already tight-fisted tranfer policy Milan has, all you MM fans can keep those "fantasy" signings truly as a fantasy. Keep dreaming! And with using a little bit of your foresight Warro, we risk being taken out of the CL.

5. Hmmmm????? I could go on. But just about 10% of what I said and a little foresight would be enough for the dumbest to figure out what I'm trying to say with deep concern.

Now say we are relegated or not allowed into the CL, I'll always say with some light ahead... "There's a next year". But you know what? The moaners who insist our coach sucks, our players suck, our tranfer policy sucks, blah, blah, blah are the very ones who will perpetuate the infinite ***** and moan posts in these forums. Of course the lot of them are the very one's right now saying "dont worry" So you see Warro not drug that you have is gonna cure this worry. I'm really not that worried at all. I just cant stand the fans that are saying "dont worry" starting up the moan and groan club for next season... that is if we have one.

"Tight-fisted tranfer policy"

Excellent definition for a totally WRONG and STUPID philosophy.

Originally Posted by GRE-NO-LI

"Tight-fisted tranfer policy"

Excellent definition for a totally WRONG and STUPID philosophy.

Well they do have this tight-fisted policy. With this scandal now a legal cost, can you imagine how more wrong and stupid the calciomercato policy will be for the 2006/2007 season?

Yes... and that is a nightmare... if things were not cleared up as soon as possible, no top class player will want to join us.

Originally Posted by GRE-NO-LI

Yes... and that is a nightmare... if things were not cleared up as soon as possible, no top class player will want to join us.

So in your opinion, this scandal was bad from the start right? Best say it and put on record. Late is better than never G.

Originally Posted by Kui

So in your opinion, this scandal was bad from the start right? Best say it and put on record. Late is better than never G.

Well, I obviously cannot express my opinions with the same profiency and class of you, because my english writing is abysmal, but you can see from my previous posts that agree with you regarding all that horrible situation:


15-05-2006, 08:36:

Originally Posted by GRE-NO-LI

That scandal could grow into something out of control, I'm getting really concerned about that...

15-05-2006, 20:22:

Originally Posted by GRE-NO-LI

Things are getting pretty serious, folks... the bankruptcy of a big society like Juventus is not an affair to be considered lightly, 'cause it can be a kind of an earthquake, with enough economic destructive potential to shake the very foundations of italian soccer.

16-05-2006, 06:30

Originally Posted by GRE-NO-LI

Giovanni is correct: the situation goes beyond the mere sphere of soccer, because it has the potential to create a very big economic turmoil.

16-05-2006, 06:36:

Originally Posted by GRE-NO-LI

BTW, an obvious but frequently overlooked remark: our beloved AC Milan cannot survive without a strong italian soccer, so we cannot be happy with Juve's current state of affairs... furthermore, I like to win titles on the pitch, not on the tribunals, and fighting against the toughest.

Just remember, folks: without a strong and competitive italian soccer, a strong and competitive Milan cannot exist...

Re: Pessotto, point taken Kui.

Re: Tight fisted transfer policy? Off topic, but I had to comment:

Can some statistically inclined person please tell me what we have spent in the last 10 years on transfers, compared to say...Juve or Inter...plus mentioning what silverware was won over the same timeframe?

I can assure you, I am glad that Berlu et al is not like Moratti, dumping Millions of pounds for 2 Coppa Italias. Madrid, for example, have easily spent over 150 Million pounds in the last 3 years...and what have they won? Nothing.

For me, so far so good...Berlu was the Ambramovitch of his day, and he splashed out unheard of sums for the Dutch trio, then paid them an insane amount of money for the time. The amount of money spent ultimately for me, is not the issue, its what we accomplished with the spend that is for me, important.

Chelsea have won two EPL titles on the trot..but have yet to reach the UCL final...when Berlu splashed his cash initially, the UCL was almost immediate...this from a club that had recently been promoted to Serie A...not forever alsorans, like Chelsea.

Back to the topic:

I will always grin, smile, laugh, and do cartwheels whenever I hear something that could be to the demise of Juve, Inter, Man Utd, and Chelsea (this last only recently I confess). For Juve to be faced with relegation is the only happy note for me after a long, and ultimately depressing season and immediate post season, what with $heva´s departure.

So, forgive me please for laughing at Juve, forgive me for hoping that as a result of this scandal, that the Serie A will be better off for it. Forgive me for hoping that the Gobbi go down to Serie C, and as for Italian football being weaker? Give me a break...you cannot be serious! When Milan was demoted, did Italian football suffer? Did the standards drop precipitously?

Italians love their football, more than any other sport...so why would it grind to a halt, be forever depreciated, because Juve is in B? Gimmie a break!

The fact that Milan got dragged into this scandal was for me, only a matter of time..we are "the next big target", so why would we be excluded from a witch hunt, or accusations of impropriety? (Moratti must be spending millions for Inter to be excluded from all of this! Good, hopefully this will limit what he spends in the transfer window! )

I still maintain that we (Milan) will emerge unscathed(IMO)...Meani may be banned, Galliani as well...but the club, which is bigger than any individual, will survive, in Serie A, (and long live Berlu, and his money!) and we wont be relegated, wont face point deductions, and will be whistling dixie, or whatever Italians whistle, as we stroll merrily toward a double trophy winning season next term....

(Kui, you can now use this to lambast me if we do face sanctions at the end of the day).

Now, I am renowned as one of the all time leading pragmatists here..so why is it that I am all sunshine about this issue?

Its because I refuse to believe that we are guilty, or anywhere near as guilty as Juve is/was....and will maintain this position, and will continue to believe, regardless of the verdict these retired judges present us with....until irrevocable evidence is unearthed that we are indeed guilty.

Until such time, I will not fret, worry, or concern myself with what will happen to Milan, since as I have stated millions of times, I believe us innocent, or victims as Tio Silvio stated.

PS: The verdicts will still leave us plenty of time to reinforce the defense, and replace Sheva.

Oh, and let me hasten to add Kui, that there is not one single club, in all of Italy, (at least to my knowledge) who has not done something contrvening "fair play". Not one.

Inter bribed refs to win the UCL, Juve fixed matches, Milan players (80s) were involved in a betting scandal that saw us and Lazio relegated, while the smaller clubs trade favors come season´s end.

So, to the casual observer, the Italian league runs just like any other in Europe (ie Germany, EPL, La Liga) except that it doesnt. Far from it. The fact that this is now coming out into the public, can only be a good thing, hopefully, it will result in a real league, and not one where "my team will lose this time, so that you dont get relegated"....or a "Moggi" can determine not only who is chosen as the next Pope, but who will win the title, 9 times out of 10.

There really are no innocents in Italian football...and its corrupt all the way through to Serie C1, and the regional leagues below that.

Originally Posted by Kui

3. The lack of insight, foresight, hindsight and anything called or dealing with vision or with eyeballs from the lot in MilanMania ...

all you MM fans can keep those "fantasy" signings truly as a fantasy.

I find your lack of respect to all the 1800+ MM members in these sentences quite shocking. These members who have been here from day 1 to help create what these forums are today and without which none of us would be here now. Some wonderful people have come and gone and some have stayed throughout, but all have contributed in making our little community truly unique. While you continue to post here Kui you include yourself in the MM lot, you can't still post here and then disassociate yourself from it at the same time.

As a general thought which goes out to everyone who's ever said this, i'm sick of hearing people say 'these forums aren't what they used to be'. If that's the case instead of everyone moaning about it or not posting, why don't they become part of the solution instead of turning their backs and running away ? If you want decent conversations and intelligent posts why not think of a topic and see what happens instead of bitching about all the posts you find negative. I get angry and drawn into subjects that probably don't promote the best side of this place, i know some of my posts aren't the most intellectual. But rather than hiding away and waiting for it to change i'll be here posting continuosly hoping that some of the other senior members do the same instead of cowering away in some other forum. Taking a break is one thing, we all need that, but don't turn your back on something that you helped create in the first place. Nothing is beyond fixing.

But with all the brilliant foresight fans here have with tactical lineups before a game, scouting of potential future players, and other thought of wisdoms as brilliant as they truly are.... why the heck are so many not using such brilliance here in this case?

I can only speak from my point of view but i don't get Italian newspapers, i can't read Italian, i can't speak Italian and i don't get Italian tv channels. So how am i supposed to follow this case with any true insight and wisdom ? All i have to go on are these posts and reports on the net, it's not the most stable of backgrounds to base an argument on is it. I don't feel it is anyway. Maybe some sort of understanding about Italian law & government is in order aswell ? I'm probably not explaining my point that clearly, but you can't compare insight into a subject like this to football tactics. You don't have to speak/read another language to watch football, to know football tactics, anyone can do it and most people have access to it.

I'm done

Good points Jim UK, and I agree with you wholeheartedly.

I do however understand where Kui is coming from, and in truth, he was the first to express some doubt about the "wonderful thing" that this scandal was, as he feared, more than others, and was first to say, that we (Milan) could be implicated.

While that doesnt absolve him from your critique, one of the things life has taught me, is that we need to try to understand where a person is coming from, so as to relate that to his/her actions and therefore get better comprehension of their angst.

I, like you Jim, are as non-Italian as it gets, but I try to read, watch, or otherwise expose myself to as much about Italy as I can...why? So I can better understand the mindset of those who make up the majority of my beloved club´s fan base, so I can better understand how Italy "ticks" as this is the country where my one and only club is located.

I have always admired Italy, and Italians, and in truth, I have never met an Italian I didnt like..well there was this one Juve fan....

In all seriousness however, Kui, I suggest that, while you may be upset at some posts, disagree with others, and find some totally absurd, you not let it raise your ire, and choose to ignore those that you find most tiresome.

At the end of the day, I am sure that we all agree we want the best for AC Milan, we want our club to succeed, we want silverware, and the best players money or our youth system can provide. Let us harp/hype on those things that collectively we agree on, instead of letting issues divide us.

We certainly wont agree on everything, so in some instances (as with myself and Jim UK, if I recall correctly, re Henry vs Sheva)why dont we just agree to disagree, shake hands, and raise a toast to Milan?

You're right Warro, we can't all agree and i probably should have taken a few breaths before posting and tried to figure out Kui's viewpoint first. It was just disappointing to read that one of our most valued members in Kui seemed to distance himself from Milanmania.

I apologise Kui if my ire was raised too much in my reply to you.

Originally Posted by Warro Bantan

Re: Pessotto, point taken Kui.

Re: Tight fisted transfer policy? Off topic, but I had to comment:

Can some statistically inclined person please tell me what we have spent in the last 10 years on transfers, compared to say...Juve or Inter...plus mentioning what silverware was won over the same timeframe?

I can assure you, I am glad that Berlu et al is not like Moratti, dumping Millions of pounds for 2 Coppa Italias. Madrid, for example, have easily spent over 150 Million pounds in the last 3 years...and what have they won? Nothing.

For me, so far so good...Berlu was the Ambramovitch of his day, and he splashed out unheard of sums for the Dutch trio, then paid them an insane amount of money for the time. The amount of money spent ultimately for me, is not the issue, its what we accomplished with the spend that is for me, important.

Chelsea have won two EPL titles on the trot..but have yet to reach the UCL final...when Berlu splashed his cash initially, the UCL was almost immediate...this from a club that had recently been promoted to Serie A...not forever alsorans, like Chelsea.

Back to the topic:

I will always grin, smile, laugh, and do cartwheels whenever I hear something that could be to the demise of Juve, Inter, Man Utd, and Chelsea (this last only recently I confess). For Juve to be faced with relegation is the only happy note for me after a long, and ultimately depressing season and immediate post season, what with $heva´s departure.

So, forgive me please for laughing at Juve, forgive me for hoping that as a result of this scandal, that the Serie A will be better off for it. Forgive me for hoping that the Gobbi go down to Serie C, and as for Italian football being weaker? Give me a break...you cannot be serious! When Milan was demoted, did Italian football suffer? Did the standards drop precipitously?

Italians love their football, more than any other sport...so why would it grind to a halt, be forever depreciated, because Juve is in B? Gimmie a break!

The fact that Milan got dragged into this scandal was for me, only a matter of time..we are "the next big target", so why would we be excluded from a witch hunt, or accusations of impropriety? (Moratti must be spending millions for Inter to be excluded from all of this! Good, hopefully this will limit what he spends in the transfer window! )

I still maintain that we (Milan) will emerge unscathed(IMO)...Meani may be banned, Galliani as well...but the club, which is bigger than any individual, will survive, in Serie A, (and long live Berlu, and his money!) and we wont be relegated, wont face point deductions, and will be whistling dixie, or whatever Italians whistle, as we stroll merrily toward a double trophy winning season next term....

(Kui, you can now use this to lambast me if we do face sanctions at the end of the day).

Now, I am renowned as one of the all time leading pragmatists here..so why is it that I am all sunshine about this issue?

Its because I refuse to believe that we are guilty, or anywhere near as guilty as Juve is/was....and will maintain this position, and will continue to believe, regardless of the verdict these retired judges present us with....until irrevocable evidence is unearthed that we are indeed guilty.

Until such time, I will not fret, worry, or concern myself with what will happen to Milan, since as I have stated millions of times, I believe us innocent, or victims as Tio Silvio stated.

PS: The verdicts will still leave us plenty of time to reinforce the defense, and replace Sheva.

you just said what i wanted to say. nothing more need to be said.

Great posts by Warro Bantan and Jim_UK

yeah good posts warro and Jim, one point is if Galliani gets banned, who will take his place? Leonardo or Baresi maybe?