All posts re: the Italian Football Scandal (Moggipoli)

We will NOT be relegated... and Juventus... I guess Italy will win the WC and everything will be just fine...

I hate to think that if Italy wins the WC and the four teams will get lesser punishment.

IT is two different issues and quite frankly, if that is the case, thats just horrible.

Teams should get punish of what they deserve, since it is not healthy for the game and for the players, more importantly for the kids.

IF Italy do win, and everybody gets away with it, how will the future looks. Imagine what kids will do and act from now on, who cares if we do illegal things, as long as we do something good in the future? I am sorry, but thats not the logic here.

I disagree: I know that's a very unprobable scenery, but all I want is a general indulgence for all, let's erase the past and move on...

Originally Posted by SkyEdge

First and foremost, i would like to commend on Tony29 for his constructive and argumentative posts(which of most i strongly disagree due to biasness) but i've kept myself from replying(again, due to biasness). I hate to admit this but sometimes i find some members of MM family being too *Naive* or just plain Patriotic to the Milan Cause. They just don't see the Big Picture.. Its fairly obvious that if Juventus had stolen a few scudettos from the rest in Seria A then why did Berlusconi & Galliani despite having Powerful post in the Italian FA & Italian Government kept quiet all this while?

Its fairly stupid to say that its because we lacked of evidence but don't some of you (deep down in your heart) know that somehow, interconnected-ly we are involved too? Italy has long been intercepting peoples conversations and why only now did these conversations surface and also at such timing?

I'd rather stand up and put my hands up for Juventus for the way they consistently maintained to win their *smaller* games be it they bought it or not because the referee can only do so much in a game. Ac Milan did have some contreversial games in the 2003/2004 season but no one said anything because Everyone knew we deserved it as we were Head & Shoulders above everyone else in the way we played tactically & beautifully.

We have to stop acting like Ostriches and put our heads in the Ground and act dumb. Its a fact that we are also involved(thus we are getting punished) for our part no matter how insignificant it is.

Scenario: 4 Friends Went to Rob a bank (Juventus,Milan,Fiorentina & Lazio) with Juventus being the Mastermind & Main Gunman. Fiorentina & Lazio being Pistol holders maintaining the power in the bank while Juventus gets the Cash from the teller. Milan is in the Lookout for Cops & Driver of the Getaway Car.. We din actually do the robbery nor point the gun at people but our fans are always blaming Juventus for masterminding the Heist and making him out to be the only Bad Person in the group while the rest not making too much of an impact in the situation. Why?

Let all of us get our just punishments and move on. We lost the title the day we lost some small games and dropped points un-necessarily. We even crashed out of the Italian Cup to some *small* team 3-0 for crying out loud but I still proudly wore my Milan Jersey out to work. Why do we fall?? So we can pick ourself up and move on..

May we get some good players this year and improve our consistency and then show these Juventini whos the Boss.

If I didn't know what's going on throughout the trial, I would have thought, after reading your post, that Milan is as guilty as Juventus.

No; I disagree with you because Milan management has been very quick in terms of putting the accusation off. Once prosecutors announced their 'hopeful' verdict, Galliani and Berlusconi comes out, stand up and speak.

Now I'm not saying that Milan is NOT guilty; BUT, I'm not saying Milan is guilty either. How you come into the conclusion that "(deep down in your heart) know that somehow, interconnected-ly we are involved too". I don't know how deep I have to dig, but as far as I have dug now, the answer is no, because no one is guilty until the verdict (& same to Juve).

No, I'm only speaking about the evidence; and if we get punished because of 1 intercept phone call, that galliani said, "I only ask that you listen to the telephone call with Meani one more time, since I am being accused of supporting his behavior. I haven’t supported anything and after Siena-Milan everyone was really affected by the grave error that punished us. It was said to me that Meani wanted to complain about the error committed and I called Meani only to know if he had heard from the officials. I am sorry that no one has asked me anything to try and clarify this point."

I would trust what he said on the official website than any of the italian newspaper, or channel4, or Chinese source. This comes from his mouth. I don't necessarily take it as the truth; but he has been far more consistent in his manners & characters, and I can openly admit that he does not seem to be lying.

After all, lying is not Milan's philosophy. Inzaghi didn't dive after he comes to Milan. There is no necessity.

Your point well-taken; but using the 'intuition' that 'deep-down' my heart I should do this won't make the case any worse.

Originally Posted by GRE-NO-LI

I disagree: I know that's a very unprobable scenery, but all I want is a general indulgence for all, let's erase the past and move on...by buying young players so everything can be solved

I help you finish the sentence

Great, that's the right end for the sentence!

Originally Posted by GRE-NO-LI

Great, that's the right end for the sentence!

*LOL*; Good for you~ May I plead to you not to state the same point repeatedly in your posts in the future?

BTW: I'm against the punishment of institutions... individuals must be punished, not institutions! So let's hang Moggi, Meani, etc., but let's put Juventus, Milan, etc. out of that mess!

Originally Posted by SkyEdge

First and foremost, i would like to commend on Tony29 for his constructive and argumentative posts(which of most i strongly disagree due to biasness) but i've kept myself from replying(again, due to biasness). I hate to admit this but sometimes i find some members of MM family being too *Naive* or just plain Patriotic to the Milan Cause. They just don't see the Big Picture.. Its fairly obvious that if Juventus had stolen a few scudettos from the rest in Seria A then why did Berlusconi & Galliani despite having Powerful post in the Italian FA & Italian Government kept quiet all this while?

Its fairly stupid to say that its because we lacked of evidence but don't some of you (deep down in your heart) know that somehow, interconnected-ly we are involved too? Italy has long been intercepting peoples conversations and why only now did these conversations surface and also at such timing?

I'd rather stand up and put my hands up for Juventus for the way they consistently maintained to win their *smaller* games be it they bought it or not because the referee can only do so much in a game. Ac Milan did have some contreversial games in the 2003/2004 season but no one said anything because Everyone knew we deserved it as we were Head & Shoulders above everyone else in the way we played tactically & beautifully.

We have to stop acting like Ostriches and put our heads in the Ground and act dumb. Its a fact that we are also involved(thus we are getting punished) for our part no matter how insignificant it is.

Scenario: 4 Friends Went to Rob a bank (Juventus,Milan,Fiorentina & Lazio) with Juventus being the Mastermind & Main Gunman. Fiorentina & Lazio being Pistol holders maintaining the power in the bank while Juventus gets the Cash from the teller. Milan is in the Lookout for Cops & Driver of the Getaway Car.. We din actually do the robbery nor point the gun at people but our fans are always blaming Juventus for masterminding the Heist and making him out to be the only Bad Person in the group while the rest not making too much of an impact in the situation. Why?

Let all of us get our just punishments and move on. We lost the title the day we lost some small games and dropped points un-necessarily. We even crashed out of the Italian Cup to some *small* team 3-0 for crying out loud but I still proudly wore my Milan Jersey out to work. Why do we fall?? So we can pick ourself up and move on..

May we get some good players this year and improve our consistency and then show these Juventini whos the Boss.

I also do not agree with you.
You talk about theories, but I care about facts.
I'm still waiting to see any real evidence against us.
I watched that particular game on TV (Milan-Chievo) and can't agree that the game was fixed. The ref was even against us, Billy Costacurta was sent off from the bench!!!
So why should I like a fan of Milan to feel "guilty" ???

Originally Posted by GRE-NO-LI

BTW: I'm against the punishment of institutions... individuals must be punished, not institutions! So let's hang Moggi, Meani, etc., but let's put Juventus, Milan, etc. out of that mess!

Lol, i do agree with GNL on this one !

Why does it has to be Juventus = Moggi for everybody ?
Why isn't Juve equal to Cannavaro, Del Piero, Zambrotta, Buffon and Camoranesi who didn't need Moggi to be in the final of the WC ( But according to all of you, they needed Moggi to beat teams like Lecce ). Why isn't Juve equal to Peruzzi and Inzaghi ( Jeff, he still dives... regulary) , who used to play for Juve and are now in the WC final.
Why isn't Juve equal to Lippi, Juve coach legend who, together with his assistant, Juve legend, Ciro Ferrara, leaded their team to the final ?
Why isn't Juve equal to Vieira, Trezeguet and Thuram who can as well play in the final of the WC ? Why isn't Juve equal to it's ex players Zidane and Henry who can play in the final if they beat Portugal ?

So, Juve can fall in B, even in C, but it's all fine to me, because Moggi was really doing bad things. But all i want now is France to proceed to the WC final, so Juve can have 8 current players and 4 ex players among the finalists (+ Lippi and Ferrara).
The world will always know how dirty Moggi was, but the world will also know that Juve never needed his BS, because Juve was really the best team in Italy !

Juve as an institution lost a lot with men like Moggi, but Italian football will lose even more with Juventus going down ! Yes Warro, they will, although you disagreed with it in one previous post of yours !

Point taken but i guess we all have our own opinion on this. As much as i hate for it to be true, i still think that we are not as Innocent as we'd like to think. All I can offer is theories with no evidence, that much i agree with Rayno & Jeff. To me, somehow just somethings don't seem right. Like we are not seeing the whole picture or being shown the real picture of was has happened. I pray that I am wrong b'coz I'd hate to have to endure European Nights without the Mighty Milan to kick peoples butt..

Originally Posted by Tony 29

Lol, i do agree with GNL on this one !

Why does it has to be Juventus = Moggi for everybody ?
Why isn't Juve equal to Cannavaro, Del Piero, Zambrotta, Buffon and Camoranesi who didn't need Moggi to be in the final of the WC ( But according to all of you, they needed Moggi to beat teams like Lecce ). Why isn't Juve equal to Peruzzi and Inzaghi ( Jeff, he still dives... regulary) , who used to play for Juve and are now in the WC final.
Why isn't Juve equal to Lippi, Juve coach legend who, together with his assistant, Juve legend, Ciro Ferrara, leaded their team to the final ?
Why isn't Juve equal to Vieira, Trezeguet and Thuram who can as well play in the final of the WC ? Why isn't Juve equal to it's ex players Zidane and Henry who can play in the final if they beat Portugal ?

So, Juve can fall in B, even in C, but it's all fine to me, because Moggi was really doing bad things. But all i want now is France to proceed to the WC final, so Juve can have 8 current players and 4 ex players among the finalists (+ Lippi and Ferrara).
The world will always know how dirty Moggi was, but the world will also know that Juve never needed his BS, because Juve was really the best team in Italy !

Juve as an institution lost a lot with men like Moggi, but Italian football will lose even more with Juventus going down ! Yes Warro, they will, although you disagreed with it in one previous post of yours !

Juve was never the best team in Itali, Juve was always the most powerfull team in italy who had it their way. Dont blame Moggi, he didnt do it for his self, he did it by the directions from Juve owners. Dont be naive, even when Juve and Moggi gets punished, and after that when they get back to serie A, Juve will still cheat the way they did with Moggi, and BEFORE Moggi was at Juventus. Mafia runs Juve, unfortunately just like Berlusconi runs Milan. Moggi , Girauldo and Battega didnt do it becouse they like it, they did it for the money. And who was paying all those gold watches, Masserattis?? Im sure Aglienni and its relatives know all about it, and as Moggi said, and I agree with him: " you have to know that there are people without faces in football...." So, NO, its not only Moggi , its JUVENTUS, and im sure that Juve will go down, and im also sure that when they come back they will be just as powerfull al always. Same goes to my beloved Milan who is dragged down becose Silvio lost the elections, and I assure you, if he had won it, nothing would happen. Juve and Milan make good money off the field, they dont need this stuff. Still, subjectively, I hope Silvio will get us out of this and we will win next years scudetto. But dont feel like justice has been served, coz it hasnt.

Mrki get down on the ground and read again my post. The point was clear IMO : Juve never needed to cheat because they did have one of the best players in the world. Juve is the only team in the world with 8 players in the semifinals ( possibly in the finals also). So, for me it's clear that they DIDN'T NEED to cheat...this doesn't means they didn't cheat (and by "them" i don't mean club Juventus, because for me the club Juventus are the coach and the players who could have beaten Lecce, Reggina or Empoli even without someone making sure it will happen anyway ). I believe you see the difference now !

And don't get angry about me saying Juve was/is the best team in Italy. I'm a fan and for me they will always be the best club in Italy in Europe in the world...just like Milan is the best for every MM member !

GRE-NO-LI BTW: I'm against the punishment of institutions... individuals must be punished, not institutions! So let's hang Moggi, Meani, etc., but let's put Juventus, Milan, etc. out of that mess!


Totally agree. Why should the clubs be punished? It is certain persons who has put Italian football in this mess without the knowledge of the clubs...
Although I am not a Juve fan, I would hate to see them relegated.

Juve may have all that palyers in the final, but if Brazil was there the situation would be different. That doesnt mean anything. There is one final every 4 years, and its pure coincedence whop has most players in it. Juve is a very strong team, with great individuals, but even dough they are strong, they always got the help in difficult moments. And would they beat al those teams even if they played fair? Maybe, but as I've never seen Juve paly fair, I cant know that for sure... from what I've seen Juve played poor against all those small teams and always got the penalties, cards and so on...